Talk:Lobengula

Untitled
This article needs to be rewritten. The only thing it says about Lobengula, is that he was the king of the matabeles. It says lot more about the matabeles and Mzilikazi, however... Shauni 20:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I've added a lot of background based on historical sources now in the public domain.  User:Ctatkinson 03:43, 4 Sept 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you please reference these sources ? The best way is inline, using   Wizzy&hellip; &#9742;   14:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I am appalled by the fact that little has been mentioned about Lobengulas elegibility to rule effectively without any compromies. The article does not say anything about the christian relationship that Lobengula had and the one built by his father The Lion UMzlikazi{rather background}. This article should also have stated on Lobengulas gullible nature attributed by the Moffart treaty and other treaties signed before the Rudd Concession. Thus, WHY did he trust the whites, and because of this diplomatic stance,WHY was he left with fewer choices!!! and WHAT were those choices! I applaud the article for putting emphasis on Lobengulas ill health though it backdates.


 * The article does state: "'It soon became obvious that Lobengula had been duped and that the British team really intended to colonise his territory.'" I think more should be said about how Rhodes/Jameson used the fight between Ndebele and Shona as a pretense to initiating a war between Ndebele and the British South Africa Company -- First Matabele War. I'll add some more on this and welcome other ideas... --Ctatkinson 11:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Matabele War

It soon became obvious that Lobengula had been defrauded and that Beit and Rhodes's team intended to sodomize his territory. ???? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.22.203.78 (talk) 23:39, 9 December 2014 (UTC) _____________

Where does the nonsense about the Ndebele killing a million people come from? Much of the article, as well as the above comments, is rubbish--filled with factual errors and wild misinformation. The article should be removed. How did it even pass Wikipedia's literacy standards? In addition to many misspelled African names, it contains many misspelled English words.

I have made some corrections to dates (amongst others the Rudd Concession was 1888 not 1889) and the article now has a good deal of information about Lobengula rather than Mzilikazi. But it says nothing about the rather inportant facts of his means of rule, especially since his treatment of subject peoples was so harsh, and his organisation of his kingdom. I would be prepared to add a section if necessary. --AssegaiAli 14:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the good edits and please do add sections on his kingdom and rule. There is much that still needs to be said.  The article is in start class and it would be good to bring it a least to a 'B' class and further. If you have the background and inclination, I would be glad to assist.  -- Ctatkinson 14:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

1872 diary references to Lobengula
I know these can't be added to the article as they haven't been published in a reputable source and so are original research, but I have an old family diary from 1871-1873 written by a relative who was a diamond prospector and later ivory hunter in southern Africa, and he met Lobengula and wrote about him (my edits in squared parentheses):

''Friday [June] 7th [1872] Rode all day, passed a hill called taba Induna, a place where Moselikatse once killed I think twenty two Indunas for making his son King in his absence. The present King [Lobengula] has a good name from all white people. I don’t know where to ask for hunting veldt. Philips has not put in an appearance. [Old - crossed out] Philips is a big man and the old man once said to him that he must be very strong. Moselikatse called up one of his people and said to Philips “now let me see how you can knock that man down.” Oh no said Philips I can’t without reason knock a man down.” So he would not do it though the old man wished it very much.''

''Saturday [June] 8th [1872] Kisch and I walked on and reached the place where the King is after about three hours walking. He is encamped in the veldt with his people round him. We got some beer and meat on our arrival. I like his appearance, very stout but pleasant and intelligent looking. Very different from Maciñ. The wagons came up not long after. I gave him a double barrelled breech loading rifle and asked him for veldt. He did not give me a definite answer. What a profusion of food there is here - beef, beer and pap. Very cold at night.''

''Sunday [June] 9th [1872] Drank a lot of beer at the King’s, very good, the best I ever drank in the country. His sister is very kind and is always giving us beer. A lot of Indunas are here. [?Molumoxaba], [?Kokotwi], [?Masne], [Mketchme Mketchwe] and a lot more. In the evening the King sent for Kisch and me and asked me where I would like to hunt. I did not give him a definite answer, I said along the Shangani. After a bit he asked me if I would like my old veldt down the [?Quai ?Juai]. Of course I said yes, so he gave me all the veldt between the [?Quai ?Juai] and the Shangani, and also permission to go and see the Falls. I was very much pleased. It is the only country I know and it has been shut to white men for two years. The Boers have been paying salted horses for hunting, so I got off easily, but the King was much pleased with the gun and Kisch used his influence for me.''

''Monday [June] 10th [1872] After bidding good bye to the King we started home again. He left at the same time to go to another town. What a contrast these people are to the Bechuanas, manly fine looking fellows and well fed. They pay wonderful respect to the King, always stoop when they approach him and speak in the most submissive manner. He is very courteous in his manner, not like that pig Maciñ.''

So Lobengula did have some contact with Westerners in the early years of his reign ... Jasper33 (talk) 14:45, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

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This article is biased
This article lacks a lot of citations and has a general level of bias. Especially the "rule" section. (apologies if I'm doing this wrong - my first wikipedia edit.) Minesrugger (talk) 20:12, 5 January 2018 (UTC)MinesRugger
 * rm unsourced material that was not WP:NPOV Wayne Jayes (talk) 14:48, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Family tree
Nyamanda(royal son born in 1st Bulawayo,1873 and died 1929 at Ensuza,buried at Mathabiswana Area.Unveiled to Ndebele Chiefs by Mlugulu Khumalo who was King Lobengula's confidante on 3 March 1896 following King Lobengula's instructions.Installed as King and successor to King Lobengula on 25June 1896 by Council of Chiefs that included Chiefs Dliso Mathema of Enqameni, Sikhombo Mguni and Babiyana Masuku. Mother: Queen Mbhida kaLodada Mkwananzi.Umdlunkulu =Queen Mother Wives:10 Nguni wives.Queen Mangongo Nxumalo only one from Royal lieage of King Zwidekalanga of the Ndwandwe and lineage of Prince Nyathela Nxumalo brother to Queen Mwaka Nxumalo of King Mzilikazi, mother of Prince Nkulumane. Her sons with King Nyamanda were Prince Khayisa Khumalo and Prince Sumpe Khumalo. Successor to Ndebele Kingship in King Nyamanda's family and in Mangongo Nxumalo's house,and in Prince Sumpe's descendancy as per identification process (2015 -2018) by King Lobengula's descendants. Legitimate Successor:Prince Zwide Peter Khumalo. Date unveiled by King Lobengula family to Khumalo Clan, Chiefs and Ndebele nation through a Press Conference was 17 February 2018.Prince Eliot Nguni Khumalo,descendant of Prince Sintinga who was youner brother to King Nyamanda, unveiled Prince Zwide on behalf of the Royal Family of the Khumalo Clan at the Amphitheator, Bulawayo. Other sons of King Lobengula were: Prince Mhlambi born 1873. Mother:Queen Mfaziwamajaha Mkwananzi Prince Sintinga(Tshakalisa) born 1875. Mother:Queen Mfazwamajaha Mkwananzi. Prince Njube born 1879 Mother:Queen Mpoliyana Ndiweni daughter of Faku Ndiweni Prince Mphezeni born 1880 Mother: a Queen Ndiweni Prince Nguboyenja born 1884 Mother:a Queen Ndiweni from Mphini Ndiweni Prince Sidojiwe born 1888 ca. 1880 and died at Somerset Hospital on 9 December 1899 of pleurisy, Njube (royal son), Nguboyenja (royal son) sent to Cape Town after death of Lobengula and buried at Entumbane near to Mzilikazi, Sidojiwa born at Nsindeni ca. 1888 (royal son) and died 13 July 1960 (buried at Entumbane near to Mzilikazi), and at least one daughter


 * This text needs to be edited and substantiated by verifiable references. Wayne Jayes (talk) 10:54, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Biology definition of many topic's
Great treak 45.215.255.196 (talk) 03:24, 30 November 2022 (UTC)