Talk:Lohn Estate/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Modussiccandi (talk · contribs) 20:46, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

I'll be happy to take a look at this one. I will start adding comments on here tomorrow or on Thursday. Modussiccandi (talk) 20:47, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

The table above represents my initial assessment of the article. My key takeaways are these: The "Description" section needs to be expanded, the "The second building" subsection needs to be made into proper prose. When that's done you'll need to craft a developed lead. If you are happy to make these improvements first, I'll go through the text and suggest more detailed improvements. I wouldn't want to make these suggestions now since the article is still some way (but not a long way) off. If you feel like you don't want to dedicate yourself to making these changes at the moment, I could give the article a failing grade and it could be nominated again in the future. I'd be happy to continue working with this review but it's up to you, of course. Best, Modussiccandi (talk) 20:54, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * First of all, thank you very much for having taken the time to do this review. I am very happy to make the improvements that you suggested. If I take a a few days (max a week) to do them is that OK for you?
 * I'm pretty sure that I have enough material in my pre-existing sources to add more content to the § Description section.
 * Lead: sure 👍
 * About the copyvio issue, yes I'm pretty sure that the website copied from the article: I remember distinctly struggling with language tags in order to construct the first sentence in "Wikipedia format". If you'd like I can confirm that by providing a diff.
 * Regarding the list, I'm just wondering what are your expectations with respect to prose. Do you think that I need to turn the list into sentences, or is it sufficient if I add one or two details to each item (as in "Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom")?
 * The latter. Example: "including British Prime Minster Winston Churchill, German chancellor Konrad Adenauer etc." I will stop pinging you on this page because I'm assuming you have it on your watchlist. But do ping me when you feel you've added enough content. Best, Modussiccandi (talk) 22:34, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the advice regarding the bibliography. I am aware of that issue, and consciously decided to forego the bibliography since I only had one book and the rest were online ressources and newspaper articles. I did it the proper way on another article that I recently wrote :)
 * Cheers. JBchrch   talk  21:43, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

, I have now expanded the article, the lead, and improved the list of guests. Let me know what you think! Thanks. JBchrch  talk  14:36, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'll have a look and perhaps make a few changes myself. I saw that I failed to properly explain what I meant by 'turn into prose' but now that each of the guests has a description, I'll go and quickly turn them into a contiguous list. I'll be back with more later. Modussiccandi (talk) 14:59, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Just a small correction regarding this edit. The sources say that "campagnes" are characteristic of the Bernese nobility, and that this one in particular is built in the Neo-classical style. The original sentence was probably unclear anyway. From Bilfinger, p. 4: Bernese "campagnes". This term refers to a type of country estate—elegant country houses—, mostly constructed by member of the Bernese nobility. ... They were invariably inhabited in the summer months only, hardly ever the whole year round. Their owners possessed at least one second house in town. JBchrch  talk  15:30, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Got it, feel free to change accordingly. Below is a list of things I've found during my last read-through. Let me know if you have questions or comments. Modussiccandi (talk) 15:42, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ JBchrch   talk  16:49, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

The first building

 * It is somewhat difficult to follow how the estate passed from Samuel Bondeli to the Tscharner family. I believe this is because the second sentence appears to anticipate what happens later in this section. I only realised after my second read-though that the family info is actually relevant to how the estate was inherited. I would re-read the section and arrange it in a way that's easier to follow.
 * ✅ I'm not sure if I was drunk when I wrote this section or if it's a legacy section by another editor who was drunk when they wrote it. Anyway, I rewrote it to match the sources.


 * Related to the first point: you need to make clearer the what you mean by "The first Lohn estate" is a previous, smaller structure on the same site. Consider something like "the first building on the Lohn estate was constructed by S. Bondeli. His was a modest building ...".

The first building

 * On December 30, 2005, Ursula and Fritz Siegenthaler... this bit seems superfluous and poorly integrated. Consider cutting. (You'll have seen that I've removed some bits of info because I felt they weren't strictly relevant. I hope that's okay.)

Description

 * Another noteworthy element is that the house is not directed towards the Alpine panorama... Say why this is 'noteworthy'. Also, I would make it more explicit what the 'Alpine panorama' is, e. g. "the house does not offer a view of the Alps".
 * ✅, to the extent of what I could extract from my source.


 * The Estate features a park... here, estate is capitalised while elsewhere it is not. Which is correct?
 * ✅ corrected to lowercase.

Images

 * All images need alternative captions (WP:MOSALT). These are verbal descriptions aimed at those with visual impairments. The |alt= parameter will add these in a hidden state to your images. They need not be long though the important part is to make them helpful in conjunction with the actual caption. This means that they shouldn't just repeat what the normal caption says but add information that one would normally get by looking at the image.
 * I am always happy to add parameters that can help the visually impaired, as you may have noticed. However, I was wondering if that can be something I could work on at a later stage, since this part of the MOS is not in the GA criterias. Since English is not my native language (and since my area of work is generally finance!) coming up with good visual description of a manor will require a non-trivial amount of work on my end. JBchrch   talk  16:57, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

I think I have implemented all your suggestions, save for the alternative image descriptions, as explained above. However, I am in any case going to proofread everything once again tonight and will probably do some cleanup/changes. Let me know after that at some point (or earlier, if you'd like) which additional changes need to be done. JBchrch  talk  17:39, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Very good indeed. No worries about the alternative captions. I'm coming off a recently-concluded FA process where these things get mentioned all the time; so it's probably a remnant of that. There is one (hopefully) final thing: the lead, even though you've already expanded it, could still be longer. The current lead doesn't say much about the estate itself. Essentially, what is lacking in the lead is a two-sentence summary of the 'Description' section. Also, don't hesitate do override things I added during your copy-edit if I messed up. Best, Modussiccandi (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Congrats on the FA 👍. I did my little proofreading and attempted to expand the lead per your comment. Again, let me know if you feel that other changes or additions are necessary. JBchrch   talk  21:06, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Having gone through the article again, I feel that all criteria are now satisfied. This is a small topic and you've managed to compile an above average article on it. Good work. I will now promote the article to GA status. Best, Modussiccandi (talk) 21:52, 12 June 2021 (UTC)