Talk:London 1851 chess tournament

Need to re-title article
To e.g. "1851 London International chess tournament". There were 2 other 1851 London tournaments in 1851, and Anderssen won one of these too! Philcha (talk) 21:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, put "international" in the name. I'm just not sure where to put the name - "London international chess tournament 1851" perhaps? We seem to have a habit of putting the year last in our article titles. Peter Ballard (talk) 12:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that would be a bit odd. The tournament is nearly universally called "London 1851", and the other two London tournaments that year are insignificant.  (Actually there were probably other London club tournaments in 1851 as well, but those are even less significant.)  See Golombek, for example. Quale (talk) 15:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah good point. Indeed that "other" London 1851 tournament was international also! So let's just leave the title as is. If necessary, we can add a note in the article that there were other 1851 tournaments in London. Peter Ballard (talk) 06:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Best in Europe?
That asks the question, assumin top 16 players were from europe, assuming no other continent had better players then those, that makes Adolf Anderssen the undisputed world champion! Only russia's chigorin was unable to participate but he was not better than Adolf.

E. S. Kennedy
Is this Edward Shirley Kennedy? Chessgames seems to think so but from examining the tournament book it is not clear that the two are the same person. Is there a source (e.g. an obituary) that mentions E. S. Kennedy both in connection to chess and to mountaineering? Chess wise, he was an amateur who was promoted from the B tournament to fill in for one of the Russian players who arrived late. I found another game of his against the strong German player Von der Goltz, so he was probably a better player than his games against Mucklow would suggest. MaxBrowne (talk) 23:18, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Flag used for Horwitz
The flag used to depict Horwitz's nationality is that of the German Confederation. And while the whole issue is somewhat complicated, that puts him at odds with Anderssen and Mayet (both with a Prussian flag) as well as Szen and Löwenthal (both with an Austrian flag). Austria and Prussia both were also members of the GC. And although it is true that Szen and Löwenthal both come from the Hungarian part, which was somewhat excluded, the same cannot be said of Breslau, Anderssen's residence, and especially Berlin (Mayet). So in terms of consistency it would make sense to either change at least A&M, maybe also S&L to the GC flag, or, probably more constructive, use Duchy of Mecklenburg-Strelitz for Horwitz. Unless contemporal sources treated it like it is treated here. --131.169.89.168 (talk) 11:44, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Unofficial world championship claim
I reverted some recent edits claiming that this tournament is considered the first unofficial world championship. I think some of the added material can be used, but there were problems. First, no source for the claim. Second, who considers it the unofficial WC? That has to be clarified and sourced, because it is far from a universal view. A better and more nuanced account is given at World Chess Championship. Finally, the edit to the lead seemed innocuous and is basically true, but it introduces an unfortunate ambiguity. London 1851 was the first international chess tournament and all of Europe's leading players participated except for Chigorin, but "London 1851 was the first international chess tournament where, except for Mikhail Chigorin, all the world's best players participated." suggests that there may have been earlier international tournaments where not all of Europe's best players participated. There were not. Quale (talk) 23:20, 5 July 2019 (UTC)


 * That's a globally banned editor (the "George Reeves Person" -- currently fourth from the end of this list) -- nothing he adds is verifiable or even likely to be true -- if he returns with another sockpuppet please revert on sight. Antandrus (talk) 00:57, 6 July 2019 (UTC)