Talk:London Buses route 7

Source books
Copied from User talk:SovalValtos

Hi Soval, I just wanted to let you know that the books I added do indeed exist. I have a copy of them! See http://www.mdsbooks.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/10747/s/Red%20All%20Over%204%20-%20London%20Bus%20Review%202014/ The ISBN13 is also there. Many Thanks. Class455fan1 (talk) 13:00, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Class455fan1 So far I have only queried one of the cites, the one containing 'Red All Over, The London Bus Guide of 2014', having found it was faulty was enough to revert the whole addition. As I said in my edit summary a book with that title does not seem to exist. Nothing that you have added suggests that it does. A protestation that you have a copy is not enough. I suggest you read the title of the book again, revert your addition, and be more careful with adding book sources, as many editors and readers will take them on trust. I hope you do not consider the above too harsh. Your edits are valued. SovalValtos (talk) 13:35, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I may have put the wrong title in. Its "Red All Over, The London Bus Review of 2014", not guide. That may be why you couldn't find it. It definitely exists though. The ISBN is only recognised on sites from where its sold, such as the one above. It is only sold from Transport shops, it seems. I bought mine online from the company itself, and previous editions I bought from the London Transport Museum. I intended to cite all vehicle allocations etc before Monday, before they get removed. I will resume adding citations on other articles after I get some lunch. Class455fan1 (talk) 13:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Class455fan1 Given your acceptance that the edits were faulty, please remove them from London Buses route 7 and only replace them with the most carefully checked edits when you have had time so to do. SovalValtos (talk) 13:55, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * ✔️. Ive corrected the title of the book. Hope that helps. It appears that I may have done the same to route 8, as I cut and pasted it and changed the page numbers as they are in my book. I will correct this in a while. The other book I have added though "The London Bus Guide" is correct. Many thanks! Class455fan1 (talk) 13:58, 27 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I intend to copy this soon to [Talk:London Buses route 7] as I think it should be continued there.


 * SovalValtos (talk) 20:45, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Class455fan1 A minor problem has shown in that the ISBN number you have used (9780993173509 ) does not appear to be valid. More important is that 'VISIONS INTERNATIONAL or VisionsInternational' seems to be a home for self published material. If that is the case it should not be used as a source. SovalValtos (talk) 20:55, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * This could be down to the fact that it is not found in a library. I typed in the ISBN number myself, and I am surprised it didn't appear on the library records, but this could be why.  It is only sold from shops like the LT Museum and Ian Allan etc. I got the ISBN from the It is not the case that the information is self-published, because it describes in detail about the changes to bus contracts and several other features, and isn't  the term "self-published" only be used for website sources? All the information in these books are correct and include events that have occurred, so it definitely passes WP:RS. They also have a wealth of information in these books, so they are most definitely not self-published. Visions are also renowned for their books on buses,because they have a lot of information in them.   Class455fan1 (talk) 22:10, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Books can most certainly be self-published. See Vanity publishing. Such books are likely not to have had any peer review of the content and are not not considered reliable sources for Wikipedia.Charles (talk) 10:40, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It most certainly isn't vanity published, as i note that the author of Red all Over has written many books for Visions. They must have had peer review before being published, surely. Class455fan1 (talk) 11:11, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Class455fan1.Charles A Mr Kenneth Michael Carr has been given as the sole director of Visions International Entertainment Limited at. It looks likely to me that the Carr, Ken given as the author of a book published by Visions International, in a source you added is the same person. Strong evidence to my mind that he is self publishing and that the source should be withdrawn and not used in future. SovalValtos (talk) 11:51, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Regardless of whether its self published or not, the source is reliable. Everything listed in the books are correct. Ive verified this using the London Vehicle Finder, and in Red All Over, there are pictures of the events described. Ken Carr may be the director of the company, but Ive put his name down because it says "Compiled by Ken Carr". I think It is peer reviewed before being published, as there are lots of others who do books/DVD's for them. They may also get some information from the Director of Surface Transport at TfL, as he publishes a column in their magazine, The Londoner, which i subscribe to. Also, Ive seen a lot of information cited by books from enthusiast groups on various other bus articles, including outside of London. Most bus books are from enthusiast groups anyway. So whats the big issue here? There isn't one. I think we should close this discussion. Class455fan1 (talk) 12:18, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You seem to making some bold assertions here for which the only evidence is your own original research. If the book is self-published it is not a suitable source. The big issue here is verifiability.Charles (talk) 14:21, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

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