Talk:London College of Creative Media

Clean up edit
I have cut back the article substantially, to reduce the promotional tone. Charles Matthews (talk) 20:44, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Update organisation name
I work for LCCM and (without initially understanding exactly how Wikipedia works) have made some basic changes to reflect our new name and focus (beyond just music). Still need to update the actual Wiki entry title but would appreciate some assistance/advice on this, as not sure if I am allowed to do it (as it's a matter of record at companies house) and also if we should create a new entry for the new entity and reference this original page (after updating it)? Mojomuse —Preceding undated comment added 14:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 6 December 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved per consensus, uncontested, and official name change. Using full name per MOS. (non-admin closure) Tiggerjay (talk) 23:19, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

London Centre of Contemporary Music → LCCM (London College of Creative Media) – Our company changed its legal name on 1/8/16 to this from the London Centre of Contemporary Music. Google search shows Wikipedia entry on the right hand side as our old name and so is confusing. Mojomuse (talk) 15:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Move to London College of Creative Media. The proposed title (abbreviation followed by full name) is not a form we use on Wikipedia. The full title is the London College of Creative Media, which appears at the bottom of the front page of the website. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Full name change would be fine as we mention our abbreviated name in the description. -- Mojomuse


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on London College of Creative Media. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160708073249/http://lccm.org.uk/about/study-lccm/ to http://lccm.org.uk/about/study-lccm/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160817032239/http://lccm.org.uk/people/alumni/scoundrels-07-band/ to http://lccm.org.uk/people/alumni/scoundrels-07-band/

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LCCM partnership with TAMA and Zildjian
Hello everyone

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns LCCM. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

The edit I am requesting is for the inclusion of the following sentence (exact wording for editors to decide): "In 2018, LCCM sealed a partnership with drum manufacturer TAMA and cymbal manufacturer Zildjian."

A potential extension of this could be "...allowing for students to perform and practice on the same kit as professional musicians, and for LCCM to hold master-classes with TAMA or Zildjian artists." However - as of yet no classes have been confirmed so this may not be worth including for now.

This fact can be sourced to the following:

https://musiceducation.global/london-college-of-creative-media-partners-with-manufacturers/ https://content.yudu.com/web/69r/0Aiy7k/ETJulAug2018/html/index.html?page=38&origin=reader https://localeducationnews.com/lccm-partners-with-tama-and-zildjian/ https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lccm-partners-tama-zildjian-162500506.html

I am requesting this edit as it will update the page with relevant and noteworthy information that is sourced to independent media.

I appreciate all guidance and feedback from editors.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 08:44, 19 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Not done. Routine publicity announcement sourced solely to press release by the subject or sources based on the press release. This belongs on London College of Creative Media's website. Not here. Voceditenore (talk) 10:22, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi - thank you for your time. I appreciate your point and your taking the time to consider it. Hopefully more suitable content will come forward soon that will help to improve the page. As I'm looking to understand completely - is this being declined owing to seeming too promotional, due to the source being based on the press release, or both? Thanks again - MrAttempt (talk) 12:25, 19 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Both. To be anything other than a routine publicity announcement, the addition would require significant, in-depth coverage in reliable published sources entirely independent of both LCCM and the drum companies involved. As I explained to you at Talk:GISMA Business School two months ago, that is the basic definition of noteworthy as used on Wikipedia. For future reference, this applies to all other aspects of the article. We do not include routine announcements sourced solely to the subject's website or to press releases or to publications based on such press-releases. GUS would better spend their time updating and expanding the LCCM website if they want prospective students to know about this partnership, rather than trying to use Wikipedia for that purpose. Voceditenore (talk) 12:41, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi - thank you again. It was from our perspective that the listed sources were independent of both GUS and the drum companies involved - neither GUS nor the drum companies control what is printed in the publications listed. As there were four separate independent sources - we saw this as noteworthy (aside from the relevance of the fact in an encyclopedic sense) enough to Edit Request on Wikipedia.

We will continue to make Edit Requests in compliance with Wikipedia COI policies with the help of cooperative and dedicated Editors such as yourself. I thank you for your time and for your continued efforts in ensuring Wikipedia standards are maintained. MrAttempt (talk) 15:35, 19 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Look, MrAttempt, the 3rd and 4th of the sources you cite explicitly state that they are copies of the LCCM press release. The 1st and 2nd are simply shortened but verbatim copies of the press release. As someone working for Global University Systems marketing and publicity, surely you know this. None of them are independent, no matter how many times and in how many places that press release appears. This policy has been explained to you several times in other GUS articles where you have requested similar edits. Once again, I ask you to take Wikipedia's policies on board to avoid wasting the valuable time of volunteer editors with these sorts of requests. Voceditenore (talk) 15:57, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

- Thank you for your insights. I am looking to improve my understanding of Wikipedia policies and can appreciate your points. Independent publications in all media routinely use press releases to inform articles and whilst this has been the case here - I will endeavor to see Edit Requests are sourced to articles that are not verbatim repetitions. Thank you again - MrAttempt (talk) 08:04, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The problem here is not simply whether or not the "articles" are verbatim copies of the press release, although in this case they were. The same would have applied to paraphrases. The key point is that a routine announcement like this one is utterly trivial. Not every mention of an organization's activities that appears in the media is worthy of including in an encyclopedia article. Do you see that kind of trivia in Royal Academy of Music or Royal College of Music? They have numerous partnerships of this kind, and much bigger ones.


 * Your repeated suggestions of inappropriate edits is a reflection of GUS's approach which is completely contrary to the interests of the encyclopedia and the goals of its volunteer editors. Global University Systems sees Wikipedia purely as a tool for raising the profiles of their various businesses and attracting students to them and as a free method of disseminating news about them which their own websites should be doing instead. Fortunately for their institutions, it is simply not going to happen. I say fortunately because putting that kind of PR trivia into articles detracts from the subject's image rather than enhancing it. To any neutral reader it shouts: "They're grasping at straws." However, in my 12 years as a Wikipedia editor, I have yet to find an editor with a conflict of interest who can see that.


 * Now, something really useful would be if LCCM sent someone out with a camera to photograph their "Music Box" building and upload it to Commons. That would be a genuine improvement to the article. Voceditenore (talk) 16:51, 20 July 2018 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 09:26, 21 July 2018 (UTC) (UTC)


 * Not that it makes a blind bit of difference re the suitability for inclusion, but out of curiosity, MrAttempt, what exactly does this "partnership" entail. The press release extensively touts both LCCM and Tama Drums, but says nothing concrete about the nature of the partnership at all. Is Tama providing the drum kits for free? Or is Tama selling them to LCCM at a discount? Or is LCCM simply buying the stuff and both LCCM and Tama are agreeing to publicize each other about it? Will Tama or Zildjian artists hold regular master classes and clinics at LCCM free of charge to the college and its students? Voceditenore (talk) 15:30, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

- Good morning. I'm sorry to hear your perception of my requests are seen as being negative to Wikipedia. Please know that I am keen to keep within the policies of Wikipedia as has hopefully been demonstrated by my Edit Requests rather than directly editing myself. I have also sought to request only for information that is notable to the page in question. Over time I have increasingly understood which information is not helpful to the page as it detracts from how reasonably perceived the page is. You have been very patient with me as I have developed and learnt my way though the website and I thank you for that.

As for your two other points:

I am currently looking into acquiring a photo of the Music Box. I will look to upload it to the Commons as soon as can - thank you for the advice.

As for the partnership - the drum companies will provide LCCM with drum equipment. With these, the students thus become practiced with using these instruments. Then (as you thought) throughout the year Tama and Zildjian artists hold regular masterclasses at LCCM free of charge to the college and its students.

With thanks again MrAttempt (talk) 09:37, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Campus
I have added a section on LCCM's campus as that is standard for college articles and this one is a noteworthy building. The paragraph is independently sourced to an article in the September 2017 issue of Wired. Voceditenore (talk) 14:28, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Notable faculty and alumni
I have expanded this section with five more entries. This is the archived version of LCCM's old alumni page. It may be useful for checking if any of the graduates listed there later have Wikipedia articles or were members of bands that have Wikipedia articles. Voceditenore (talk) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 09:21, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Student Accommodation Correction
Hello everyone

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns LCCM. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

I am requesting a correction to the page.

The "Campus" section, in regard to The Music Box, includes the incorrect statement: "The upper floors of the building are devoted to student accommodation and privately-owned apartments". The upper floors are not devoted to student accommodation. The evidenced article - https://www.wired.co.uk/gallery/music-box-building-london-college-architecture - states: "The £5 million, six-floor campus accommodates 550 students." This is to say that the building accommodates this number of students as they study, not as they stay/sleep.

As an employee of LCCM (via GUS), I have also been informed that the upper floors of The Music Box are privately-owned apartments and are not student accommodation.

I am requesting this to be changed so as to update the page via the removal of incorrect information. Also - could a sentence be added to say (along the lines of): "The building has a capacity of 550 students".

I appreciate all advice and guidance from all Editors and thank you for your time.

With thanks MrAttempt (talk) 14:39, 24 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Done. Many thanks for catching the error. Voceditenore (talk) 15:03, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

New Degree with Falmouth Univerity
I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns LCCM. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page.

I am requesting that the new course from the college is mentioned in the "Programs" section. The degree is a BA (Hons) in Creative Music Technology. The degree is taught by LLCM at the college's Music Box and the degree is awarded (and was developed) by Falmouth University.

This can be sourced via: https://studytravel.network/magazine/news/0/26051 https://musiceducation.global/lccm-falmouth-creative-music-technology/

Perhaps it can be added as part of the sentence: "As of 2018, the college offers BA (Honours) degrees in Creative Music Technology, Creative and Professional Writing, Music Industry Management, and Music Performance and Production as well as an MA in Creative Entrepreneurship". The sentence: "All academic programs are validated by the Open University." might be deemed now-inaccurate by Editors.

I appreciate all feedback and thank you for your time.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Pinging who has taken good care of this article in the past, to garner their input.   Spintendo   20:37, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Many thanks . — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrAttempt (talk • contribs) 07:54, 18 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I have added the degree and amended the later sentence to – Voceditenore (talk) 05:14, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

BMus Music Performance and Production
I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns LCCM. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page.

I am requesting the 'Programs' section to be updated. The Music Performance and Production programme is a BMus (bachelors if Music) - not a BA. This is proven via the LCCM website, courses section: https://lccm.org.uk/courses/?search=Music+performance+and+production&level=selectCategory

Can this please be corrected so the above degree is removed from the primary sentence and instead follow the second sentence, stating: "The college also offers the BMus Music Performance and Production (Hons)."?

If possible, can the US-English spelling of 'programs' also be corrected to the UK-English spelling of 'programmes'; since this is a UK university?

I appreciate all feedback and thank you for your time.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 16:09, 6 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Done. Voceditenore (talk) 18:56, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

UK-English. "Programme/s"
Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns the London College of Creative Media; my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting a correction to the UK-English spelling of "programme/s". As to the 'Programmes' section:

"All academic programmes are validated and awarded by the Open University apart from the BA in Creative Music Technology which is validated and awarded by Falmouth University.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 15:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Done. Voceditenore (talk) 19:02, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

New principal
Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London College of Creative Media; my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I would like to the request an update to the principal’s name in the information box. The new principal is Dr. Simon Jones.

The following sources quote Dr. Simon Jones as being the principal:

Any insight from Editors is appreciated. MsAttempt (talk) 15:57, 22 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, I have updated the principal based on the college website. I have also added the college to the LCCM disambiguation page. Something went wrong with the format of the references you provided so I tweaked them into Template:Cite web format. Let me know if I have missed anything. TSventon (talk) 11:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help - all looks good to me! MsAttempt (talk) 10:33, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Addition to notable alumni
Good morning,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns the London College of Creative Media; my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting that Lois Moodie be added under the ‘Notable alumni’ section on this page. The following article shows that Lois attended the London College of Creative Media.

MsAttempt (talk) 11:09, 10 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi I'm declining this for two reasons:


 * 1) Because the source you gave - starsoffline.com - doesn't appear to be a reliable source. It says the word "wiki" a few times on the page, which isn't classed as reliable for Wikipedia (see WP:UGC).
 * 2) Because Lois Moody doesn't appear to have their own Wikipedia page, so it's not clear to readers why they are important enough to be on that list. (See WP:WRITEITFIRST for more).
 * If you can address these issues, please feel free to reopen this request, thanks.  Seagull123  Φ  16:04, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I just realised I misspelt this person's name in my reply - Moodie not Moody - however they still don't appear to have their own Wikipedia page.  Seagull123  Φ  16:05, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Good morning

Thank you for your response. I have found an alternative source with the news.

Would this be more appropriate?

MsAttempt (talk) 11:30, 11 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I don't believe that will be good enough - the article you've cited says it's by "Global University Systems" - your employer, so it isn't classed as a reliable source on Wikipedia. See WP:PRSOURCE for more on this. Also, my second point hasn't been addressed: because Lois Moodie doesn't have their own Wikipedia page, there's no clear indication of why (in my opinion, other editors may disagree) they should be included. You need to find a reliable, independent source which verifies this; and ideally they should have either their own page, or a very clear indication of why they're notable enough to be included - see WP:LSC and WP:SOURCELIST for more. If you disagree with me over whether they need their own article or not to be included - please point out which policies or guidelines show that this isn't necessary (WP:POLICYLIST may help with that). If you need help finding a reliable source, you may want to visit the reference desk. Thanks.  Seagull123  Φ  15:24, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * PS (again), for help identifying what a reliable source is, you may wish to read Reliable sources checklist and Reliable sources.  Seagull123  Φ </b> 15:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Good morning

I appreciate you taking the time to look into this request. Your comments regarding reliable sources and the necessity for a Wikipedia page for the alumnus have been noted. Should anything change, I'll revisit this request.

Thank you for your insights,

MsAttempt (talk) 09:33, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Student Satisfaction Survey
Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) – the company that owns London College of Creative Media; my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I would like to request the following sentence be added to the history section:

“In the National Student Survey 2020, LCCM ranked as the top contemporary music institution in the UK with an overall student satisfaction score of 86.5%.”

With thanks,

Mstechvision (talk) 14:40, 17 February 2021 (UTC)