Talk:London Victoria station

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

PAGE MOVED per request and discusison below, as well as archived discussion. A couple of objections were raised to this move, based on the idea that we'd have to move a bunch of other stations now. On the pro-move side, the fact that the stations official name is "London Victoria" pretty much carried the day. Unless all the other station articles have titles that differ from the stations' official names, I don't think we'll have a problem. -GTBacchus(talk) 08:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC) Victoria station (London) → London Victoria station — re-implement archived discussions  DJR  ( T ) 15:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add  * Support   or   * Oppose   on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~.

Support - currently sounds overly convoluted, "London Victoria" sounds better, is used and i can't get away with calling it just "Victoria"! - Pickle 16:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Support - less contrived and more commonly used than current name. -- Chris j wood 13:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Platform Length
For some reason i recall some one asking about platform 8 being in southern of southeastern usage. I got a southeastern train from 8 (its on its own on the southeastern side) on Friday. I also have a feeling this data was relevant; Platform 1 - 12 Cars Platform 2 - 14 Cars Platform 3 - 8 Cars Platform 4 - 8 Cars Platform 5 - 12 Cars (10 Car Networker) Platform 6 - 12 Cars (10 Car Networker) Platform 7 - 12 Cars Platform 8 - 8 Cars Platform 9 - 12 Cars Platform 10 - 12 Cars Platform 11 - 12 Cars Platform 12 - 12 Cars Platform 13 - 12 Cars - Gatwick Express Platform 14 - 12 Cars - Gatwick Express Platform 15 - 12 Cars Platform 16 - 12 Cars Platform 17 - 12 Cars Platform 18 - 12 Cars - Diesel trains Platform 19 - 12 Cars - Diesel trains Detail from "Network Rail - Rules of the Route 2007" Pickle 11:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably just a couple of short sentences indicating above would be sufficient - e.g., "All the platforms on the Brighton side take trains up to 12 cars in length. On the Chantham side, the max. train lengths vary from 8 to 14. What do you think? A bit iffy 11:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Not sure how to incorporate it really. Platform 2 is very unusually long, IIRC the VSOE uses it for its runs to Folkestone Harbour. Really did it as i had the source open, ands its therefore here, typed up, for when I get around to using it! Pickle 13:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

1991 IRA bomb
The article states that it was a man, David Corner, that was killed. However, I see to recall it was a woman that died. Can anyone throw some light on this? A bit iffy 11:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to rush so precipitately into a reply when you've only been waiting five and a half years. The source given, http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1991.html, looks quite sound and appears to be run by an academic institution. I've looked online a bit and everywhere that the gender is specified, it's a man. Really if we need to shed any more light on this, surely it needs to be your recollection - and the evidence for it - that does the shedding! :) But I am sorry that you got ignored for so long ... with best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:18, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, I remember asking this. I'd recalled I'd heard on a radio report at the time that it was a woman, so they must have simply got it wrong. Cheers!--A bit iffy (talk) 12:40, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome. So glad I jumped in hastily on this one! :) Best wishes DBaK (talk) 13:03, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in process
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:London Paddington station which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. &mdash;RFC bot 12:00, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Naming
Reference " It is named after nearby Victoria Street and not Queen Victoria. " If Victoria Street is named after Queen Victoria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria,_London), surely Victoria Station is also named after Queen Victoria? Does anyone know where was this "fact" gleaned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.60.118.38 (talk) 12:58, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * For the record, no I don't agree with your logic that "A references B which references C" is the same as "A references C"! :) The claim is properly referenced where it is made more fully, further down the page under the subheader "The Victoria Station and Pimlico Railway". I don't have the book so can't check but we usually give properly-cited books the benefit of the doubt. Hope this helps, best wishes DBaK (talk) 13:13, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Why don't we give that ref in the lead paragraph, then, you may ask. I had a vague feeling that we don't usually cite in the lead, so I had a quick look here: WP:CITE where it says: "Citations are also often discouraged in the lead section of an article, insofar as it summarizes information for which sources are given later in the article, although such things as quotations and particularly controversial statements should be supported by citations even in the lead." which I guess pretty much covers it. I do hope that this is helpful. Cheers, DBaK (talk) 13:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The relevant passage in Adrian Gray's work reads as follows: 'Negotiations for the Grosvenor Terminus began in December 1857 although the name Victoria was by then being suggested due to the proposed station's location near to one end of Victoria Street." p.45.
 * Thank you very much Das48. I think it's very useful to have the text here, and have also added it into the reference. Despite my hamfistedness at reference formatting this does seem to have worked, and I hope that others agree it's OK - or even good! - to have it in there. If it's a slightly contentious or surprising point (see above) then I think it's good to have its reasoning easily accessible. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 10:20, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Do we know when it was first called Victoria Station? Anthony Trollope's 1864 novel Can You Forgive Her has the Palliser party travelling from their house in Park Lane for Folkestone and Paris from "the Pimlico station" - Chapter 68, "From London to Baden". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomas Peardew (talk • contribs) 07:02, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I should add that I don't think Trollope meant "Pimlico Station": Victoria Station was built in what was then known as "Pimlico".Thomas Peardew (talk) 07:08, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Trollope were referring to the LB&SCR 'Pimlico' station situated at Battersea Wharf which was the West End terminus of the railway from 1858-1860. See the article under the heading 'Lines to Victoria'Das48 (talk) 14:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe the context for this talk has changed a fair bit (the current reference is to a national rail webpage rather than a book), but I've made a slight edit to clarify that the street itself was named after the Queen as I felt the previous wording "the station was named after the street (not the queen)" gave the wrong impression that the name bore no relation to the queen at all. Vbnnr (talk) 13:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Vbnnr this has been removed by @ AvidWriter123 as there wasn't a source to back up the assertion (the Victoria, London article doesn't make the claim either) Turini2 (talk) 17:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly, I cannot find any source at all over the internet which suggests the street was named after the queen. AvidWriter123 (talk) 18:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Turini2 The existing source on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_names_of_Pimlico_and_Victoria, Gillian Bebbington's London Street Names is accessible on the internet through internet archive and lists on page 332 Victoria Street in Pimlico as one of the streets named after Queen Victoria; and that the street named the station and from there the district - so that's a Queen-station link as well as Queen-street. I think this is strong enough to go in the intro but would be keen on thoughts - won't tweak yet!
 * https://www.ucl.ac.uk/ramble-london/home/victoria-street-mansion-flats-and-model-dwellings this walk also links the naming of the street with the naming of the reigning monarch, saying it was planned out as King William Street and renamed after Victoria took the throne. Vbnnr (talk) 16:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Victoria sign in Hamburg
With regret, I undid this edit which added an image of a German-language email concerning a Victoria station sign at Hamburg-Harburg station. With the best will in the world I cannot see how it enhances the article; I feel it's inappropriate in a couple of ways, at least, but would be happy to discuss it here. If there's a place for this it might be better at the Harburg article but even there I wouldn't feel that this email image is itself the thing we'd want to display. Sorry, no unkindness intended here. Best wishes to all, DBaK (talk) 16:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Concrete dates
When did the concrete get into the Victoria Line signalling room - and why did sugar act as a retardant? Jackiespeel (talk) 09:46, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110107095355/http://www.persona.uk.com:80/victoria/objector_docs.htm to http://www.persona.uk.com/victoria/objector_docs.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080528154818/http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/T2025-slides-final.pdf to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/T2025-slides-final.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070810182533/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/consulchelhackney/pdfproposedChelHackroute2 to http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/consulchelhackney/pdfproposedChelHackroute2

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140410040141/http://www.networkrail.co.uk/managed-stations/ to http://www.networkrail.co.uk/managed-stations/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150319120801/http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/safeguarding/chelsea-hackney-line to http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/safeguarding/chelsea-hackney-line
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120322021527/http://developments.dlr.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Development_Projects/The_future_of_DLR/Where_we_go_Next/DLRextVicEustonStP.pdf to http://developments.dlr.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Development_Projects/The_future_of_DLR/Where_we_go_Next/DLRextVicEustonStP.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.crossrail.co.uk/80256B090053AF4C/Files/chelsea-hackneyline/%24FILE/chelsea%2Bhackney%2Bline%2Bsafeguarding%2Bleaflet%2Bfebruary%2B2008.pdf

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Cultural references
Not quite sure how cultural an Ernest Bevin quote would be, but one often runs across his remark, as Foreign Secretary, that his foreign policy was to be able "to take a ticket at Victoria station and go anywhere I damn' well please!". There's a citation here, and although Boris Johnson used to be editor of the source, I understand it is nonetheless not regarded as unreliable.  Tim riley  talk    15:05, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120118061837/http://www.gatwickexpress.com/en/about-us/news/gatwick-express-launches-new-ticket-gates to http://www.gatwickexpress.com/en/about-us/news/gatwick-express-launches-new-ticket-gates
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130523050442/http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/id/B1952070-F4DF-430D-8C68856CC02DFF5A to http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/id/B1952070-F4DF-430D-8C68856CC02DFF5A

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DLR WP:CRYSTAL and Tube station photo
Firstly, I think the DLR "future" is bit too much WP:CRYSTAL - plans have been suggested, but not seriously for a number of years. Snip, modify or keep? Secondly, the photo of the tube station portrays an entrance that no longer exists! Can someone change it to a more appropriate picture? Cheers, Turini2 (talk) 21:44, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If it's reliably sourced, keep it. It passed a GA review, so it can't be that bad. I don't think there are any up-to-date pictures of the tube entrance, and I don't regularly travel via Victoria anymore to be in easy access for a photo. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  23:35, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Underground passageway
In the Victoria line subsection it says "In the 1990s, a new underground passageway underneath the bus station was built, connecting the Victoria line ticket hall with the District and Circle line ticket hall". This cannot be right. Surely the passageway was built as part of the original Victoria line station in the 1960s? At all events, I used it frequently in the early 1970s so it certainly does not date from the 1990s. -- Alarics (talk) 22:36, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The passageway connecting the Victoria line and the Circle/District line ticket halls was certainly built when the Victoria line ticket hall was constructed (see here for a 1966 poster showing the new arrangements below ground), though there was a subway from the Circle/District line ticket hall to the mainline station under the bus station even before then.
 * Someone has misunderstood the description in the source linked from ref 126. Allington Street no longer exists having been replaced by the new development north of Victoria Street (though it is possible to get a look at it on Google Street view if you click in just the right place here). The passage described connects the eastbound platform of the Circle line with the intermediate concourse of the Victoria line and is an extra link to the one provided between the two when the Victoria line was opened. Extra passageways have been added in the recent alterations, but comparing the 1966 poster layout and a more modern 3D plan suggests that the passageway described in the source is probably the curving one shown here.--DavidCane (talk) 23:42, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * This change was made by in this edit a few days ago. I haven't had time to review that to see if there is anything else that is factually incorrect or questionable, as mentioned in this thread. I could just revert, but that's not always the best thing to do if you can't back said revert up (and "don't touch GAs" isn't good enough). Ritchie333 (talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  15:05, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah okay, it will need some editing - I was looking at the various bit of London Underground legislation. I suspect it's then a lower level tunnel, as you note. I'll make a change. Turini2 (talk) 21:40, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It's already been done! Thanks all - it's a shame when there's only 1 reference and nothing to collaborate it, sorry for the error!

Everything else is well referenced, but feel free to review things carefully if you wish. Turini2 (talk) 21:43, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Southeastern Service update needed
The Southeastern section was last revised in December 2021 but now needs an update to bring it line with the May 2022 timetable change.I have looked over the timetables on the Southeastern Web page and have come up with a TPH list. Please can someone kindly take some time out of their leisure to review the timetables and make sure the following is correct? :)


 * 1 tph to Dover Priory
 * 2 tph to Ramsgate (one is routed via Chatham, the other via Ashford)
 * 1 tph to Gillingham via Chatham
 * 2 tph to Dartford via Bexleyheath
 * 1 tph to Bromley South
 * 1 tph to Orpington (all stations)

It may be incorrect :) But If it is, feel free to edit it. I have decided to post here before I change it in the main page just in case it had any mistakes. (Unsigned comment by User:AvidWriter123, 15:54 UTC, 30 August 2022)


 * Pinging who may be able to look over this. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 15:08, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Any Updates regarding this situation? :) I see that you've added a small notation in the article which is helpful in advising the outdated information until we update it accordingly. :) AvidWriter123 (talk) 17:51, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I would just like to add that I used the hour of 12:00 to gather my information if anyone would like to review the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AvidWriter123 (talk • contribs) 15:24, 30 August 2022 (UTC)