Talk:London independence

Pre-EU referendum result sources
To show longer term notability, here are earlier sources: Fences &amp;  Windows  14:23, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/60388/could-london-declare-independence (2014)
 * https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/we-asked-an-expert-if-london-could-secede-from-the-uk (2014)
 * https://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/sep/22/uk-growth-london-north-south-divide (2013)
 * http://www.cityam.com/237959/eu-referendum-city-of-london-draws-up-plans-for-independence-in-the-event-of-brexit (2016)
 * http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21934564 (2013)
 * http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13661001 (2011)
 * http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/could-london-become-a-separate-city-state-9089179.html (2014)
 * https://www.publicaffairsnews.com/articles/opinion/deborah-mattinson-how-about-independence-london (2014)
 * http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a97a4f1c-0a8b-11e3-aeab-00144feabdc0.html#axzz4CftVwfD1
 * London: A Social and Cultural History, 1550-1750 - on London's historical loss of independence in the 800s to Wessex in the face of Viking attacks
 * https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GKocBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA48 - on Livingstone's 2008 proposal
 * London Boroughs at 50, says London stopped being an "independent city state" with the Magna Carta
 * http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/simon-jenkins-london-should-quit-the-eu-and-ditch-the-uk-too-8615533.html (2013)
 * http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5089977.html?edition=uk (2014)
 * http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/is-it-time-for-london-to-secede-not-quite-yet-10237176.html (2015)
 * The Country Formerly Known As London, a 2014 BBC Radio play discussed in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/urbanlab/news/the-country-formerly-known-as-london
 * http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-in-five-londoners-want-capital-to-split-from-rest-of-uk-and-become-independent-9722652.html (2014)
 * https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/30/i-want-the-city-state-of-london-to-join-the-other-nations-reshaping-the-union (2015)
 * http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/05/if-scotland-leaves-the-union-so-should-london/ (2014)
 * "Londoners shall have no king but their mayor!" - quote by Robert Brand, 1193

The new section "Hypothetical consequences of secession"
The new section "Hypothetical consequences of secession" seems very speculative, and really like original research. It also takes as its starting point that London were to fully secede from the UK, whereas London independence may also refer to the more likely scenario (and very real debate) on London attaining the same status as Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland within the UK, or some other form of increased autonomy. Some of the "hypothetical" problems outlined in the new section are not really real problems, for example the section on "healthcare." London is, as is well known, full of hospitals and taxpayers and would have no problem with running its own healthcare system; in fact it would be vastly better equipped than the rest of the UK. But autonomy or secession wouldn't by itself necessarily mean that London couldn't continue to cooperate with the UK in the healthcare field. The "Defence and NATO relationship" section seems of dubious relevance; again, it takes as its starting point full secession instead of some some of autonomy or relations with the UK; even an independent London could very well maintain some sort of defence cooperation with the UK. Iceland, a full NATO member, doesn't have armed forces, and noone would expect London to build separate armed forces from the UK. --Tataral (talk) 11:03, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 8 July 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: WP:SNOW opposed. — JFG talk 15:36, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

London independence → Londependence – Common name, per Brexit. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 13:19, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Both Londipendence and Brexit are tabloid terms, which should not be used as titles for an encyclopedia, so this article should stay where it is. This is Paul (talk) 13:35, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I don't think we've got there yet Deku-shrub (talk) 14:05, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose: not the WP:COMMONNAME. Vast majority of sources referenced in article do not refer to 'Lonependence'. Ebonelm (talk) 18:05, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose per all the above. And Brexit is not the article's title.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 18:09, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose - While more RS use the term Londependence falling under WP:COMMONNAME, it is what others have called a "tabloid name". Meatsgains (talk) 19:09, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose and snowy close per This is Paul. ✉cookiemonster✉ 𝚨755𝛀   19:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Esp. as the "per Brexit" rationale has been closed per WP:COMMONSENSE.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 16:46, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

CN¥

Some points regarding recent IP edit
I think it is more appropriate to refer to London independence as an idea or belief, rather than a "movement." There is certainly no reason to label the idea as "marginal" in this article. The opinion polls cited in the article for example demonstrate that at least 34–35 percent support the idea described in this article in some form, either devolved autonomy (aka country status) or full sovereignty, in addition to a huge number (around 30%) being undecided. Many commentators agree that some form of increased, devolved autonomy, like Scotland or Northern Ireland, is quite likely to happen at some point (after all, both Berlin and Hamburg are city-states within Germany, so the idea is perfectly reasonable). That's certainly not "marginal." --Tataral (talk) 14:46, 19 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I suggest you clarify your thinking and your language. Independence is not autonomy, and you are conflating the two. More autonomy can have many forms, of which your 'country status' is only one (or in fact three in the UK at present), so 'aka country status' is at least misleading. There is every reason to label as 'marginal' a movement, idea, or belief in London's independence, though personally I find the adjective characteristic of British understatement. 'Laughable' would be my choice. Disguising the wish of a moderately large proportion of people polled for some extra devolved powers as a wish for full independence is frankly propagandist.
 * Gravuritas (talk) 15:00, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Proposed articles for deletion 30 March 2017
The article was probably written more as of a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek and an anti-Brexit article started shortly after the 23rd/24th June 2016 and largely written within from July to September 2016 (the time of the year when British University staff and students typically have (or about to have) their Summer holidays, or otherwise have their time off at home with Mum or Mum and Dad after graduating (or otherwise finishing Uni)!), and probably edited by some British political science professors, lecturers or students! "London Independence" is always feasible and a serious option...until the next terrorist attack, which duly happened (in London) as expected and without fail, and on the 22nd March 2017! Anyway, without making too much distasteful light out of Terrorism and terrorist attacks, as my humble suggestion, can it perhaps just be  merged into  the article on the Aftermath of the 2016 Brexit Referendum?! This (and the topic behind the article) is obviously more of a joke, and non-British editors obviously don't quite really get (understand) English humour and the English sense of irony! -- 87.102.116.36 (talk) 18:06, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Capital? and the City of London?
I'm aware this whole idea is a hypothetical or unlikely scenario, but I'm interested to know if there has been any talk to what the capital of England and/or the UK would be if London gained Independence. Also what would happen to the City of London in the scenario, it's legally separate from Greater London, so would it be in the new London or not or remain part of England and/or the UK as a enclave and exclave? There may be a good chance these have never been discussed though?  Carl wev   20:55, 4 May 2017 (UTC)


 * You're trying to ask grown-up questions about a juvenile piece of nonsense. The juveniles interested in independence for London don't want to be bothered with difficult grown-up stuff, and the grown-ups think it's such an obviously dopey piece of juvenilia that they won't bother thinking in detail about any of the 101 practical showstoppers to this idea.  I'd give up, mate.
 * Gravuritas (talk) 21:15, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

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Edit the article
I find this article to be really disconcerting. Not to mention false. This should not be called London Independence. There has never been an official referendum for London to ever become a city-state. This was all due to the EU vote which then gave the idea, but this was just a petition set up to remain in the EU. The petition was never taken seriously and no action has been required. I would really appreciate it if the title could be changed completely or the article gets edited. It is sending out wrong information and is very misleading.