Talk:Long-range reconnaissance patrol/Archive 1

Proposed Merger
There is no question that there are too many uncoordinated articles relating to reconnaissance. The reconnaissance article perhaps should change to a disambiguation page, with separate pages for network reconnaissance, military reconnaissance, etc.

I've done a page on special reconnaissance (SR) that deals with the units that go deepest behind enemy lines, under the control of theater or national commanders. The US Army has changed their term "Long Range Reconnaissance", which certainly was the Vietnam-era historical term, to "Long Range Surveillance" (LRS).

LRS units still operate well behind enemy lines, but not as far as SR. LRS, before some of the new reorganizations, still operated under fairly high command levelsd. LRS detachments were assigned to divisions and LRS companies to corps.

Staying with the older definitions, battalions and brigades would have platoon-sized, permanently-attached reconnaissance units, in platoon strength at battalion.

Not to be forgotten, just with American forces, are the Marines. Force Recon companies are a strategic asset reporting to Fleet Marine Force or at least a corps/MEF level. Reconnaissance Battalions are part of divisions. Just to confuse things, there is usually a Force Recon (and possibly SEAL) detachment with the smallest independent commands, the Marine Expeditionary Unit--call them a heavily reinforced battalion or lightweight brigade.

I really have to study the RSTA Squadrons in the new Army Brigade Combat Teams, which appear to assign two scout companies per brigade, with more available as attachments.

It's good for you to suggest this; there's a good deal of cleanup needed. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 22:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

LRRP should just cover the US Army organizations (LRRP, Rangers & LRS units) and US Army methods evolved from Vietnam to the present day. The term was not used by other NATO armies and is rather army specific. 24.63.151.83 (talk) 12:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess from the above that you never went to the NATO ILRRPS.Blackshod (talk) 13:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Not to be merged The World War II Long Range Penetration units were different to reconissance; they were designed for offensive operations, and in particular the Chindits were large self contained units supported by air. The LRRP patrols were small groups designed purely for recce work Foofbun (talk) 09:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No Merge I have just created a disambiguation page Long Range Patrol, because units designated as LRP can either be created for reconnaissance and/or interdiction and sabotage, but it is pointless creating a third article. I suggest that [Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol]] is move to Long Range Patrol with two section one on reconnaissance and the other for interdiction and sabotage with a main to Long range penetration. --PBS (talk) 11:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

No merge. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 18:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No Merge LRRPs were a specific force with specific missions and played a very large (but very secretive) role in the military, quite apart from standard "Recon" units.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeanNovack (talk • contribs) 03:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"Followed a few years later by the British Long Range Desert Group, made famous by its co-operation with the Australian Special Air Service Regiment"
Obviously some confusion here, the Aussie SAS did not even exist at that time. Changing to "Special Air Service".--AshBoss (talk) 15:08, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Bugs
I am really shure that Weingarten (Baden) never was Home of the NATO International Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol School. Maybe Weingarten (Württemberg): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weingarten_(Württemberg) ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.42.25.132 (talk) 09:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Lolwut
This article is all well and good, a nice history of LRRP units in 'Nam, etc., but there's just one problem: LRRP units are not defunct. While they are no longer a specific unit, all SF groups have a number of LRRP grunts attached to them for specific duties. I can't back this up with anything other than personal experience (excuse me, original research), but this is how it is. Bookworms, go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.248.236 (talk) 14:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I just wanted to add to this dicussion as a actual former,member of a Corps-level LRSC unit (E Co. 51st Inf.(LRS) (ABN)). Our current SF units do not use or have anything with the name "LRRPS" with them. The term isn't used anymore in the American military (but has been and still in some forms by our allies) and the SF teams conduct SR (special reconnaissance) which means they operate way farther than the 60-150km we operated in at Corps level. Division LRS operates at 0-60km. Cav and regular infantry recon go from 0-3km. That's just text book doctrine. Made for European battlefields. The Bundeswehr called their LRRP company "Fernspah" or "Fernspaher" with a umlaut above the "a". There were more units of them during the Cold War, but they have whittled down to just one company from what I seen. They are located at Pfullendorf and other places in Germany. This is just an example of the use of the term. When dealing with other NATO or Warsaw Pact Soldiers (mainly in Bosnia), we referred to each others as "LRRPS" so everyone would know what we did and how we did it. If I told them I was in "LRS" or "LRSC", very few would understand the term. This is true in own military. By the way, the NATO ILRRPS School was in Weingarten (South-east of Stuttgart, Wurttemberg State near the Bodensee lake). It moved to Pfullendorf, GE in 1998. I attended the LRRPS Leaders course at Weingarten and several Recce courses in Pfullendorf. The head of the course is now the 7th CATC (US Army) and the name now is the ISTC: International Special Training Center. Some of the things taught were:

Patrol Leader's Course Advanced Patrolling Winter Patrolling Sharpshooter's Course Combat Survival Course Combat Resistance Course CQB Course Patrol Medical Course Operations Planning Course NATO Training Specialist Vehicle Recognition Course CIS Vehicle Recognition Course Intro to Vehicle Recognition Course Special Vehicle Recognition Course


 * yet sadly nothing about commas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.149 (talk) 22:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

If you read the outstanding article on LRRPS and LRS by Major James F.Gebhardt (can be found at the bottom of the "Long Range Surviellance" entry Wikipedia page), you will understand almost all there is to know. Thank you,

"Eyes Behind the Lines" —Preceding unsigned comment added by LRS51ST (talk • contribs) 22:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC) Ican confirm that the British Army did have a LRRPs presence at Weingarten up until 2000, it was based at Weingarten. I attended the school in 1985. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.100.123.92 (talk) 16:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Peacetime sovereignty patrol as lrrp?
I'm thinking in particular of the Slædepatruljen Sirius, but other forces such as the Canadian Rangers and the Australians reservists in the north also patrol. Anyway, The article defines lrrps as heavily armed and operating behind enemy lines, both qualifiers not had by the Greenland Sledge Patrol, but it seems otherwise to be an lrrp.Mang (talk) 13:37, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

This article needs content
Right now, this article is basically a list. It needs some content on long-range reconnaissance teams, what they've done in the past (some historical context), both in the distant as well as the recent past. This article only tells me the names of different LRRPs in various countries, it says very little about what they are and do. 64.134.71.74 (talk) 21:08, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Long-range reconnaissance patrol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20151117022739/http://firepower.org.uk/fighting-talk/richard-winchester/ to http://firepower.org.uk/fighting-talk/richard-winchester/

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 * Repaired dead link via checklinks --Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 18:26, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Heavily armed?
This "description" does little to inform the reader. What exactly is heavily armed? Assault rifles are considered "small arms". A patrol equipped only with assault rifles (and grenades) might look "heavily armed" to civilians - but not to the military. Given that a reconnaissance patrol's mission is to "sneak and peek", bogging them down with more potent weapons would hamper the mission. More realistically, a LRRP will go out with whatever the hell the mission planners believe they'll need. In short, their weaponry will vary by mission. As a result, using a vague and subjective description like "heavily armed" is probably not a good idea. I suggest simply calling the patrol "armed". Rklawton (talk) 15:48, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Raiding v. Reconnaissance
The history section included a lot of tangential information about raiding units that wasn't relevant to reconnaissance patrols. Can we trim that stuff out? THough I do agree we should help the reader differentiate between raiders, scouts (historical and modern), pathfinders, and reconnaissance. The differences outnumber the similarities. Rklawton (talk) 16:02, 19 January 2017 (UTC)