Talk:Long Island iced tea/GA1

GA Review
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Initial review
Reviewer: HenryCrun15 (talk · contribs) 03:47, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments, . I'll get to them soon :) In the meanwhile, hope you enjoy your weekend. Santacruz  &#8258;  Please ping me!  14:49, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I've tackled a few of them, I'll tackle the rest soon enough. Santacruz  &#8258;  Please ping me!  23:02, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Betty Crocker
There is no mention of Long Island Iced Tea in the 1961 Betty Crocker. checked this in 2016. His comments are in Talk:Long Island iced tea/Archive 1. I have just checked this again myself and can confirm. GA-RT-22 (talk) 16:36, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay. If that's the case, should the sources that report this be considered unreliable, and so not used as sources for this article? I would also recommend the article addresses the supposed 1961 publication and present the evidence against this, since it is often repeated as fact and a reader may want to know about it. HenryCrun15 (talk) 21:07, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It would be fantastic if we could mention Betty Crocker, but the problem is there is no RS that debunks it, and my having checked is WP:OR. I suppose we could do this anyway on the grounds of Ignore all rules, if we have consensus for it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 17:42, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I trust your having checked it,, so if it isn't there then I agree with 's proposal on how to move forward. Santacruz  &#8258;  Please ping me!  21:42, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not super comfortable with it but I put it in. Feel free to edit as needed. GA-RT-22 (talk) 22:46, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I just found a source saying it can be found in her 1966 book "American Home All-Purpose Cookbook". Do you have that source? It is entirely possible it appeared in the latter book and people misremember it as appearing on the first one.A. C. Santacruz &#8258; Please ping me! 10:10, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * that book (by Habeeb, not Crocker) is a bit rare. None are available online or at libraries or by inter-library loan in my area. I found one at the Lenawee District Library in Michigan but it's unlikely I'll be able to get to it soon (I'm in a different country). It does have a 27-page chapter on beverages, but I find it unlikely that it would have a Long Island recipe. The Back Label doesn't appear to me to be RS, it seems to be a blog. And it repeats the false claim that the recipe appears in Crocker 1961, which makes me think they didn't actually check either book. And I've found this claim in a few other blogs, like this one, which makes me think they are all just repeating each other. GA-RT-22 (talk) 15:07, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick response. It seems the claim is probably false then. A. C. Santacruz &#8258; Please ping me! 19:24, 14 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes, I read that exact edition of the book and there was no mention of Long Island Iced Tea. There was the word cocktail in the context of shrimp cocktail. And there was something else that mentioned Long Island, but as I recall, it was just another seafood reference. The drink, the Long Island Iced Tea, was definitely not in that book. FidelCashflow (talk) 19:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Co-GA
You've been doing plenty of work (more than me, really) on the article since the review started. If the article passes GA status in this nomination, I'd like for you to take credit as well. Of course, if you do not wish you do not need to do so, but I thought at least offering was the least I could do. Santacruz &#8258;  Please ping me!  22:59, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Well I do what I can. Please feel free to change anything, I'm not protective. GA-RT-22 (talk) 00:32, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Follow-up review
It has been over seven days since I first reviewed this article, and though several improvements have been made, I don't think it meets the Good Article criteria. There are some major issues that I think stops it from meeting the standard as the article stands: Because of all of these together, I am declining this Good Article nomination. I expect that the sources needed to get this article to reach the standard are out there, but would likely require digging into sources that are not online. HenryCrun15 (talk) 05:52, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Reliability of sources: This article relies heavily on internet sources, frequently short articles from magazine-style sites. Many of these sources have problems, such as making untrue statements (such as Insider stating the cocktail appears in a 1961 recipe book when it does not), relying heavily on primary sources (the PBS video simply presents Robert Butt's story in his own words), drawing from other sources uncritically (the HuffPost article is drawn largely from the PBS video), or writing non-noncommittally (the AP / Kingsport Times-News article presents the claims of the Kingsport marketing manager without investigation, and neither says Butt's claims are true or false, only that he is "most often credited" with the drink). It's my concern that this reliance on such sources risks too much copying from other internet sources by quick writers. There are no sources contemporary to either the 1970s or the 1920s, and I don't believe that anyone writing any of the cited sources consulted any such documents. Most notably, none of the sources are by a researcher / journalist who has looked into the evidence of any of the claims.
 * 2) Extrapolation: Many of the sources are single bartenders expressing their personal opinions. These opinions have ended up being presented as representative of society's opinions on the drink. I feel there remains too much extrapolation from a few opinions this way.
 * 3) Missing information: There are a number of facts which a reader would want to know that are absent. The evidence for the history of the drink has been discussed, but there is more. Is this a popular drink today, or is it seen as a novelty, only ordered for a laugh because of its unusual ingredient list? Is it preferred by certain demographics (eg college students, Americans, people wanting to get drunk fast)? How is the drink portrayed in culture and what does this say about society's perceptions of the drink? (I found, for example, scenes in The Simpsons and The Big Bang Theory make essentially the same joke - someone drains it in one go and instantly becomes extremely drunk. A similar joke is in Cruel Intentions, a person sculling one down without realising it's alcoholic.)
 * Thank you for taking the time. I pretty much agree with all that except I'm not so sure the sources are out there. It's not a drink that appeals to cocktail historians in the same way "true" cocktails like the manhattan do. GA-RT-22 (talk) 06:16, 15 January 2022 (UTC)