Talk:Long Walk of the Navajo

Comment
Overall this is a good description suitable for someone who wants a little more information.

I am a non-NA but think it needs more of a Navajo point of view expressed perhaps in the last sentence
 * "On June 18, 1868, the once-scattered bands of people who called themselves Diné, now united as one, set off on the return journey, the Long Walk Home."

For example, not many peoples were removed from their land and then later were told to return, certainly not in the volume of the Navajo. How many other reservations increased in size? Something happened in the period of the Long Walk. I am sorry I can not find the quote of a Navajo whose words were written. I remember something like, "Some Navajo were bad. We went on The Long Walk. We returned to the Navajo Way and went back to our land. It has been that way ever since." There was more going on than White greed, quality and quanity of the US military. My opinion --Rcollman 11:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia: The plan was originated by Gen. James H. Carleton, the U.S. Army commander for the New Mexico region, and executed by Kit Carson, who used a scorched earth campaign to divide the Navajo people, and starve them out of their traditional homeland, Carleton also asked Carson to kill all the Mescalero Apache men. Gen. Carleton sought primarily to "pacify the natives," but also believed Navajo land to be rich in gold, and it was thought the presence of hostile Indians would impede mining.

RC Comment: The US Military in the Military Department of New Mexico retracted units at the start of the Civil War, 1861. Once the North started pushing the Texans out of New Mexico, the military looked at the Navajos. Canby was the Commander of the NM Department, who sent Colonel Carson and 4 divisions of NM Volunteers to Ft. Wingate. Canby also had the idea of seperating and educating the Navajo in modern farming practices. General Carleton who commanded the California Volunteers relieved Canby in Sept 1862. It was Carleton who gave Carson the order and put his own spin on Canby's reservation idea. Carson did not divide as much as force bands out of their traditional areas by destroying crops and livestock.

RC Comment: I made the edit called "Edit by an Anglo" when I was not logged in. --Rcollman 23:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

There's an excellent documentary film, [|The Long Walk: Tears of the Navajo], that was released in November 2007. It tells this story from the viewpoints of the Navajo, the Mescalero Apache, and the white man. After seeing this well-balanced film, even though it included many comments from a pro-Anglo historian, I am in complete agreement with Rcollman that this Wikipedia article does not contain enough of the Navajo point of view. In particular, the sections titled "Long Walk" and "Bosque Redondo" both need expansion to tell more about the suffering of the Navajo and Mescalero Apache during the journey and at its New Mexico destination. Unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with this history to do justice to it, so I'm calling on someone who knows more than I do to add more of the Native American point of view. -- SFFrog (talk) 04:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Navajo Nation, is said to cover not only the 4 corner states, but stretches from Fort Sumner to Fort Sumter, to Bosque Rodendo to Redondo Beach, and as far north as Fort Yukon, Alaska to Yukon near Oklahoma City and Kansas City, and as far south as Mexico City. The dispersal of several hundred Native American tribes in the 18th and 19th centuries, also by BIA relocation programs into urban areas in the mid 20th century has indeed produced more Navajo/Dene people to indicate the Long Walk was the beginning of the Na-Dene diaspora. + 71.102.7.77 (talk) 23:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

After relating 20 pages of material concerning the Long Walk, Howard Gorman, age 73 at the time, concluded:

??? Who is he? Why does his opinion matter?

If I read 30 pages instead of 20 can my quote replace his?

Is there really no more balanced source to use?

Removed needs more inline citations banner
Several editors have been adding inline citations since the banner was placed in 2011 on the article page. At this point in time, I suggest that be used in specific places where citations would be helpful. I will add a few. Rcollman (talk) 12:23, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Number of dead
David Williams, in A People's History of the Civil War, says that "of the more than eight thousand Navajos who started the journey, three thousand died on the Long Walk." He cites two sources. That's a far cry from the two hundred mentioned in this article.Lexi McCologist 18:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * What sources does he quote? With all due respect, that would probably be the long walk of the Cherokee peoples in what is called Trail of Tears? Even if I wanted to believe that the military lied to hide such a high number of deaths for the Navajos, Navajo oral tradition does not confirm that number, and Navajos know more than me :)  Just goes to show you can't always believe what you read. --Rcollman 17:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps Williams is conflating the 2000 most frequently cited as the number who died at Bosque Redondo with the 200 generally said to have died along the way. It seems odd to leave out the larger number. 65.103.188.100 05:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Frankly, 2000 Navajos would be 20% or more of all Navajos in 1868. Navajo oral tradition would take note of this.  I would expect to read about the deaths in Stories of the Long Walk and there is no mention of this ! Nor do I find anything like this in the dozen or so books on Navajo History in my library. What are the citations or sources for this very suspect figure? "Two sources" and "frequently" are not specific enough.  Please see Trail of Tears Thanks--Rcollman 03:23, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The number of Navajo fatalities is thought to be higher than the Trail of Tears, but the percentage by tribe is statistically lower than what the Cherokee experienced. In the Trail of Tears (1838-39) about 5,000 out of 14,000 Cherokee died, which compromises a third or 35 percent of the tribe. In the Long Walk, the 2,000-2,500 out of 20,000 Navajo fatalities is one-fifth/one-quarter or 20/25 percent. I don't see a "higher" nor "lower" fatality rate in the Long Walk, but be in mind other tribes of the Southeastern and Southwest US in he mid 19th century experienced their own forced removal marches, like the Apache, Comanche, Choctaw, Muskogee (Creek), Seminole, Zuni and Hopi; and let's not forget the Delaware (Lenape), Modoc, Nez Perce, Shawnee, Winnebago and other Native American tribes' own experiences in forced relocation across North America are tragic. + 71.102.7.77 (talk) 23:14, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Legacy - Long Walk was a genetic bottleneck
I generally understand the concept of a 'genetic bottleneck'. The "Sun Kissed" citation is a very moving narrative about a family, which also tries to explain why the Navajo have an apparent 1/30,000 chance of a specific genetic disorder, where other populations it is 1/1,000,000 chance. The population bottleneck due to events around the Long Walk is given as the cause. However, some Navajo doubt the genetic bottleneck theory and point to uranium contamination as the cause for the rapid rise in this disorder. Rcollman (talk) 15:13, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Ethnic Cleansing
Genocide and the forceful removal of natives from their land are TWO VERT DIFFERENT THINGS. Ethnic cleansing was never the goal of the removal, and never happened. Though Navajos died, it was a result of the march and not ordered by a military commander like during the Holocaust or something. The soldiers themselves suffered from the march, it even states that in this article. This is ridiculous.--$1LENCE D00600D (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * genocide includes the cultural destruction and that's exactly what the goal was. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 01:38, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 22:25, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Americans and Navajos
Am I the only one who feels that parts of the text referring to "Americans and Navajos" are a bit awkward? Aren't Navajos (native) Americans? As a non American, that part of the text is a really sticking out as a weird antithesis. The term "American" is not reserved for people of European descent, nor does it today exclude the natives within that nation. I understand it is a challenge to define the two groups in this civil strife, but the nationality should by no means attributed to one of the groups. Fkitselis (talk) 18:19, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:04, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Long Walk Home -Gallup Downtown Murals - by Richard K Yazzir, 2005 (15910805589).jpg

Stephen King novel given priority over a more important subject
The article title The Long Walk is given to a Stephen King novel -- and not one of his better-known ones. Conversely, the Long Walk of the Navajo is covered by the article titled Long Walk of the Navajo. It seems to me that on the basis of importance, the Navajo walk deserves precedence in article titles. Thus I propose retitling the article about the King novel the The Long Walk (novel) and titling the article about the Navajo Walk as The Long Walk. Comments?

I'll post this same message on both Long Walk articles to solicit comments. Smallchief (talk) 00:36, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree. Biolprof (talk) 02:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Grand Canyon??
Curren text reads, "Some Navajos refused and scattered to Navajo Mountain, the Grand Canyon, the territory of the Chiricahua Apache, and to parts of modern day Utah.[citation needed]"

Based on a visit to some of the Navaho Nation sites including the museum in Window Rock, I thought they hid in Canyon de Chelly, where they ultimately surrendered, not the Grand Canyon, but I don't have an actual source. Grand Canyon is also stated in the Ganado article without citation. Maybe it was both? Can anyone add a citation and correction if appropriate? Biolprof (talk) 02:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)