Talk:Lope de Aguirre

Untitled
Can anybody verify any of this? It is my understanding that although Aguirre existed, much of what is presented here is legend invented by Werner Herzog.


 * In the audio commentary of Aguirre Herzog clearly states, that the diary on which the movie whole movie based is purely fictious, I'd like to see some sources too. -- Neatlittleeraser 11:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Original letter
I don't think that this page is entirely factual. I believe the part about the flogging is from a novel about Aguirre. I will check some sources and get back to you. --Wuapinmon 20:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)wuapinmon

Can anybody provide any evidence as to the location of the Spanish original of the letter for which an English translation is provided at the bottom of the page? Is it in the Archivo General de Indias in Seville? Have there been any published English translations or are we to rely on some relatively inscrutable internet translation? The page for the translation only cites that it is "translated from the version published in A. Arellano Moreno (org.), Documentos para la Historia economica de Venezuela, (Caracas: Univ. Central, 1961)" SCRA5071 01:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Carta de Lope de Aguirre al Rey Felipe II (in Spanish). --Sugaar (talk) 21:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Here you have an authoritative source in english

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1561aguirre.html

--Bentaguayre (talk) 01:25, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

POV
The article is very POV and based mostly in the distorted POVs of Herzog (I hate that film! - what a pathetic mixture of tragedy and bad jokes!) and Spanish institutions. It needs a throughout review. --Sugaar 21:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Crazy?
Did they ever figure out what made Aguirre so crazy? Has he been diagnosed a sociopath by modern experts? 24.91.121.27 00:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't get it myself. At first he enforced the New Laws, and then later was arrested for protecting the indigenous people, but then on the expedition he started killing the heck out of them. What gives? Syphillis? No idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.145.251.34 (talk) 16:35, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Not from Herzog
It's worth pointing out that hardly any of the occurrences recounted on the Aguirre page come from the Herzog film. Herzog's film contains no backstory whatsoever, portrays Aguirre's expedition as an offshoot of one of Pizarro's expeditions, is narrated by a fictional priest, and ends with Aguirre alone on a raft floating on the river. Nothing about Aguirre being flogged, or chasing a judge, or killing his own daughter, or being executed. There's the bit where he claims to be the king of Peru, though. Slocombe (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I mean the entry paragraph that depicts Lope in such a bad light: Aguirre was renowned for his treacherous and brutal exploits. Maybe it has some other source. Sorry about he confussion.
 * Anyhow, I'll edit that awful entry myself. --Sugaar (talk) 21:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture - Tears of God (2007)
I removed this sentence: ", and by Andy Rakich in Tears of God in 2007," because the only reference to this film is a youtube video which can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtDoPK03hKU and is clearly a student film which mocks up Herzog's "Aguirre: Wrath of God." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monsieurpeanut (talk • contribs) 06:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Portrait
I found the following note, embedded in an HTML comment, at the top of the page: “the pencil 'portrait' of Aguirre widely reproduced on the Internet is a fictional modern work. It has no meaningful significance.” I assume it refers to the portrait which was further down on the page, and which is now in the usual place at the top. Certainly comments on the portrait have a place in the article, if backed up by a citation. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 22:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

A lot of dubious content here
This article is virtually without citations, and I would say that everything biographical after the statement "he participated in the overthrow and killing of Ursúa and his successor, Fernando de Guzmán, whom he ultimately succeeded" is quite dubious. Historians disagree greatly about what happened once Lope de Aguirre headed into the interior of South America; I do not believe there is even any consensus that he made it to the Atlantic. This desperately needs citation, and probably from more than one independent source because the facts are in dispute among reputable sources. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 18:00, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up, . There are sources available for much of the information, which may need to be corrected, but most of them are written in Spanish. I will search out what I can find, and perhaps you could double check them, since you read Spanish too. Carlstak (talk) 23:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed that there are plenty of sources, mostly in Spanish. I hope it is also agreed that they are at odds with one another, and that we should cite conflicting reports. And, yes, I will gladly make a pass to cross-check any Spanish-language sources that can be made available. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 03:33, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply, Jmabel. I agree absolutely that opposing views should be included, and will add some as I research the literature and find sources, when I get a chance. Of course, I would be delighted if you have some material to add.:-) Regards, Carlstak (talk) 03:20, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Nothing handy, and I'm afraid I'm up to my eyeballs in other stuff. It's stuff I read about 20 years ago. But if I run across it again, I'll be sure to come back to this article. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 06:08, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Nice job of sourcing what is there, by the way. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 06:09, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

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