Talk:Lord of the manor

Capitals
Why the capital "M" for "manor"? It's not as if it's an official title, just a convention. Or maybe I'm wrong... Deb 16:45, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Manors are propper names - e.g. the Manor of Pifflingswort; hence the Lord of that manor is the Lord of the Manor of Pifflinglswort. Since Pifflingswort is the Manor (of Pifflingswort) as well as a manor, the capitalisation of "Lord of the Manor" is correct, I should think. 80.255 09:47, 22 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Anyone wishing to rewrite or add to this article should possibly get some advice from the Manorial Society of Great Britain, who are, I believe, based in a house in Kennington Road, London. The Chairman is someone called Robert Smith.


 * Remember that there are no hard and fast facts when dealing with these matters. In most writings it is referred to as "lord of the manor", however I think to be honest capitalisation about names and major points is quite appropriate in our language. If you look on an OS map you will see that in a village the "Manor House" is always in capital letters, and anyone styling themself as "Lord" also uses a capital as it is part of their name.


 * Also please remember that the manorial society of great britain is not a statutory authority or official/expert organisation - it is merely a conduit for the auctioneering of manorial lordships.


 * I recall seeing their annual newsletter in our library at college. Isabella84 18:15, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * In the definite usage "Lord of the Manor of X", it is a proper noun and should be properly capitalised. However, any indefinite reference to a lord of the manor is a common noun and should *not* be capitalised.  Most occurrences including the title of this article are capitalised even though they should not be. 75.210.199.174 (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

freeholders
THERE IS NOTHING HERE ON FREEHOLDERS IN THE MIDDLE AGES THAT IS WHAT I AM LOOKIN FOR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.40.36 (talk • contribs) 01:20, 26 March 2006


 * Hope this helps. You need to look for copyhold. Records are held for some copyhold at the national archives, Kew, London or you could read through the books published at the internet archive. --88.104.42.170 (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Edits on 30 Aug 2006
A lot of potentailly good material has been added by a new user but there are a few issues.


 * The article is now unstructured. Material has been added at the end.  Editing should involve blending in all exisiting material and then using section headings, sub-headings and bullets.  Where there are places and people that are themselves articles in Wikipedia, there should be links eg a typical link.  I have asked the user to do this.  A large piece of text is quite daunting otherwise.  See Tutorial


 * We cannot merely add material that has been produced by someone else without getting permission. I have asked the user that this is received in writing.


 * Phrases such as "historians agree" generally prompt the question: which historians? Where possible there should be references when making assertions.  I have asked that references are included whenever possible.

Before making these changes myself, I want to ensure that the material is not copyright. I also do not want to discourage an expert in this area from contributing. I am therefore giving this user a chance to bring the article up to standard. JMcC 15:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * User provided an external link to Manorial Society of Great Britain as a reference but this showed the material had merely been copied. No attempt was made to integrate material.   It was therefore deleted.  External link to this material added instead. JMcC 07:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Passport
You cannot have a manorial title on your passport, I have actually tried this. The only titles of nobility you can have on a passport are


 * 1) British and Irish Peerages (England, Wales and Scotland)
 * 2) Scottish feudal baronies (not the same as the Lairdship things)
 * 3) Persons in France of the Plantagenet line
 * 4) Maltese titles

I spoke to Mr Kemp at the passport agency in Wales. HOWEVER, what might happen if you tried this is you will get an observation in your passport that says "LORD refers to the person's name and not the person's title". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.14.16.5 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 23 June 2008‎

Title Trade
There needs to be a section on how these titles are sold, often for large amounts of money to people who believe that they are buying a real peerage i.e. Lord Botherington, instead of what in effect is just an incorporeal land right, similar to a right to cut peat on St Swithins Day. Many of the lord of the manor titles sold are either fake, or have no provable provenance at all, just a statutory declaration that anyone can make.Cavort (talk) 13:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. I am currently researching this from an unbiased perspective, and I have been floored by the amount of bald-faced fraud surrounding the manorial titles business. Thankfully, a leading solicitor on the subject (Edward Harris) has agreed to help, and has already provided reams of information covering a number of misconceptions about both the business and the laws surrounding it. I'm getting it organized now and will try my best to clean up the article with solid facts as best I can. Many thanks to all editors who have brought it this far! Brit-o-pedia (talk) 01:22, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Etymology
The etymology of the word "lord" appears to be "keeper of the bread". Does this infer that the lord had the grain mill and baking ovens? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.121.204.129 (talk) 18:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Corn Tithe and Hay were often part of a manorial right. --88.104.42.170 (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Crazy Sentence
"The National Archives at Kew, London and County Record Offices maintain many documents that mention manors or manorial rights, in some cases court rolls have survived, such documents are now protected by law." This looks to me like three separate sentences for some reason mashed together with commas. GeneCallahan (talk) 13:01, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

footnote 24
I am new to wikipedia but can I just say to everyone that I think footnote 24 is a fake document. Its advice is wrong on a number of counts. The main domain does redirect to the Home Office but anyone can get a domain to do that. I don't want to start altering other peoples work but are we sure that fraudsters haven't created this document and listed it in wikipedia to confuse people????*** — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.163.185 (talk) 01:14, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The document was originally available from the Home Office website. I have linked a new link to the Home Office's document on Official Observations, which confirms the same policy (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/agencies-public-bodies/ips/passports-policy-publications/observations-passports?view=Binary). Editor8888 (talk) 07:45, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Capitalisation (again)
I see that this has been moved to manor with a small m without any apparent discussion.

See https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Lord+of+the+Manor%2CLord+of+the+manor&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CLord%20of%20the%20Manor%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CLord%20of%20the%20manor%3B%2Cc0 as a demonstration that usage of the capital version greatly exceeds the current name. For this reason, and the discussion/explanation at the top of this page I propose moving the name back to Lord of the Manor S a g a C i t y (talk) 07:34, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Quote from Maltravers herald
The quote “John Martin Robinson, Maltravers Herald Extraordinary and co-author of The Oxford Guide to Heraldry, gave his opinion that "Lordship of this or that manor is no more a title than Landlord of The Dog and Duck"” has no basis in fact or law. The quote links to http://www.baronage.co.uk/2001/faqs-01.html which in turn purports to be quoting from “the website of the British Embassy in Washington” but in fact links to http://www.britain-info.org/ which is a private organisation based in Berlin and nothing whatsoever to do with the British Embassy. A Google search for “John Martin Robinson British Embassy in Washington” simply leads to a bewildering circle of the same websites quoting themselves and never to any original source for the so called quote. Even if it could be shown that Mr. Robinson did in fact express that opinion, it is nothing but his opinion and has no basis in fact or law. Mr. Robinson seems to be unaware that the owner of a public house (a pub) is strictly speaking not a landlord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landlord) but is in fact a licensed victualler, or, for short licencee, and that real lords of the manor are, qua their manorial holdings, the owners of an estate in land and have considerable rights in that land. One has only to search the gov.uk website to see many references to parliamentary discussions on Lords of Manors and their rights and to have witnessed the fact that national park have bought about a third of the "lord of the manor" rights on the whole of the Brecon Beacons, from Caernarfon right across to Senni Bridg to realise that Mr Robinson is ill informed. (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldhansrd/vo051025/text/51025-38.htm) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.83.218 (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * John Martin Robinson is Maltravers Herald Extraordinary, a royal herald. His duty as the Officer of arms is ie. Roll of the Peerage and thus he is well informed about law of nobility. If he say, that "Lordship of this or that manor is no more a title than Landlord of The Dog and Duck", this opinion is informed, based on facts and law and within his powers as royal herald.--Yopie (talk) 14:14, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It is easy to take Robinson's quote out of context. He is not saying that people are not entitled to the designation, he is just saying that it is not a personal title in the sense that a peerage is.  It is a description of someone's property status, like the landlord of a pub.  This has been clarified. 81.158.102.102 (talk) 21:30, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I am grateful that the matter has been clarified however, can we not ask for a better reference? The quote links to the baronage press which in turn links to a quote which is irrelevant to the topic. Can we not ask for a a correct reference? I have yet to find a proper reference to this alleged quote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.83.218 (talk) 11:14, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

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