Talk:Lost Highway (film)

Too much speculation
This article has an absurd amount of original research; anyone care to clean it up a bit?


 * Placed some tags here and there, i dont think it'll work though.
 * I've cleaned up this article considerably and added citations as well.--J.D. (talk) 17:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good work! Lugnuts (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And found some sources for the outstanding fact tag about the 2 thumbs down.  Lugnuts (talk) 12:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

3/13/09-- Removed the following (under the section "Interpretation"):

The key line to trying to interpret the film is "I like to remember things my own way. Not necessarily the way they happened." Fred says this when asked by a detective investigating the infamous videotapes why he hates video cameras. He fears mystery man because the Mystery Man portrays things as they happen by filming them and sending the VHS. When he is interrogated about murdering his wife he says "Please tell me I didn't kill her". He doesn't remember killing his wife. In the prison cell he has headaches whenever he remembers the awful truth and to escape the Lost Highway he escapes into the character of Peter Dayton. Pete's girlfriend, Sheila, is what Fred wishes Rene had been and Alice Wakefield, the disloyal fiancee of Dick Laurent, is what Rene was. Hence them both being played by Patricia Arquette.

...however correct this may or may not be, it seems to be original research. Citation needed or no-go. 69.129.196.12 (talk) 02:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Back to "Start"
The article is a mess of both original research and a little bit of fancruft, its in no way a "B" article, it needs wikipedians who care enough about the article to make it competent. I also took the liberty of grading the article as "Mid importance", seeing how is from a famous director and how it wasnt really much of cultural significance beyond cult following, then the logical would be "Mid" instead of "high".--Kessingler 05:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Lost Highway → Lost Highway (film) — New Bon Jovi album also called "Lost Highway" has been announced and page has been made at Lost Highway (album). Can an admin please move the existing Lost Highway article to Lost Highway (film) and redirect Lost Highway to Lost Highway (disambiguation)? I think most people searching for Lost Highway will now want the album and not the ten-year old film. Thanks. SuperCoolAl 10:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

 * 1) Support. See my comments in "Discussion" below. Ccoll 15:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Support, "Lost Highway" has been the title of a song for nearly 50 years before it was the name of the film, I don't think any one "Lost Highway"s should have priority over the others. LDHan 17:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * But that song doesn't even have it's own article! Lugnuts 08:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

 * 1) Disagree I think the film is/will be more well known than an upcoming Bon Jovi album, and the page should remain the same with the disambig link at the top.  Compare with the searching for their previous albums Crush and Bounce. Lugnuts 12:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) * I would like to comment that if you search for Crush or Bounce it goes straight to disambiguation, which is what I am asking for for this album! SuperCoolAl 13:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) ** but those are common words that need a disambig page. Lost Highway isn't a common everyday word and the first search should be the most popular entry, with disambig to other meanings at the top of the page.  In other words, as it is now. Lugnuts 16:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Disagree LH is an important movie of a significant director. The current relevance of BJ is minor, at most. I am against the move. Tomixdf 14:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Disagree I agree with the above comments. The film definitely has more merit and a legacy behind it while the BJ album is just being released. Maybe in a few years time if it has achieved any kind of stature on its own but not now. Count Ringworm 14:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Disagree I also agree with the above comments. Lost Highway is an important art film not to be reduced to a petty disambiguation page because of an unimportant album by Bon Jovi. cun 15:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Oppose The film is the clear primary use of "Lost Highway".
 * Google hits; "Lost Highway" + Lynch = 685,000 —— "Lost Highway" + "Bon Jovi" = 142,000. That's nearly a 6:1 ratio for the film. A Bon Jovi album considered more important than a classic Lynch film? Never gonna happen. Croxley 04:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) *May I comment that the Bon Jovi album was literally announced two days ago? I think approximately one fifth of the hits for a film that has had ten years to ramp up Google hits is pretty good, to be honest. I am not saying the album is necessarily more important than the film, merely that the album is important enough for the disambiguation page to come up first. SuperCoolAl 09:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) **So why don't Crush and Bounce link directly to the albums (and have a disambig link on them) instead of going to a disambig page first? Lugnuts 12:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) ***Eh? I'm not against the disambig page coming up first. In fact that's what I want! SuperCoolAl 22:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) ****Those Google hits for "Lost Highway" + "Bon Jovi" are misleadingly impressive though, the vast majority of those will merely be press releases or one sentence news pieces in the press, unlike the Google hits for the film. Croxley 02:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Oppose The album has not been released, and may even change names before then. 70.55.88.134 04:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments:

This seems a bit premature, considering it's the just the working title of an album. The movie was made by a major director, so I doubt its age is an important factor in the amount of searches it gets. However, if you follow through on it, the disambiguation page should be moved to "Lost Highway". "Lost Highway" should not redirect to "Lost Highway (disambiguation)". Dekimasu よ! 11:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The album title is now official it was announced yesterday. Thanks for your comments SuperCoolAl 11:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree with Dekimasu on this one. Lugnuts 12:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with SuperCoolAl in supporting a primary disambiguation page. The movie, the album, the record label, and the documentary series (see the current disambiguation page) are probably all referring to the song made famous by Hank Williams. If anything, that should be the main page. Though this may be my favorite film and I am no Bon Jovi fan, I disagree with the decision to prioritize it over other "Lost Highway"s. Ccoll 15:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I tend to agree, although I wouldn't go as far as suggesting the song should be the main page as the film is probably more well known amongst the general public, but I do think "Lost Highway" should be a disambig page with the song first on the list in chronological order. LDHan 17:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. --Stemonitis 09:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Origin
I removed this section and placed it here because it seems to fall under the category of speculation. I think the key is the opening sentence that states, "The storyline is likely based on..." The presence of "likely" does not suggest fact at all. Not to mention, I have not come across any article or interview with Lynch or Gifford where they state that this was in fact the inspiration behind the film. Also, the sources listed in this paragraph cite a discussion forum and a film review -- hardly authoritative sources. Lynch has made it pretty clear, and this is stated in the article as it exists with citations, what inspired the film. --J.D. (talk) 19:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

It is widely believed that the movie is actually based on the story, and that in itself is a fact worth mentioning. And since when are external film reviews not worthy sources in articles on movies? I'm not surprised that Lynch keeps quiet about this - it makes the movie very easy to interpret, which more or less spoils the surprise/mystery. Would like to hear other people's thoughts on this section! I strongly feel it is NOT speculation, and deserves to be there. Tomixdf (talk) 21:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said, one source is from a discussion forum, which, if I'm not mistaken, is frowned upon by Wiki guidelines as a reputable source. The other is a review and therefore it belongs in a different section, like Reception, or maybe a new one, like, say Theories, but not under Production because there is no source (that I can find) where Lynch or Gifford, the two primary authors of this film, have stated it as an influence or inspiration for what they made. Therefore, it can only be seen as speculation. --J.D. (talk) 21:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine. I'll look up some more solid references and re-add the section.Tomixdf (talk) 22:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Kewl. Works for me. --J.D. (talk) 14:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Great. Final version indeed looks much better - glad we reached consensus. Tomixdf (talk) 21:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

US DVD Release
The debut of the DVD in the US was not in March of '08 since I had rented it from Netflix in '07. IMDB also lists two previous releases on DVD dating back to '01 and '06. Not sure if that's a reliable enough source for this, so I'll leave that up to someone better suited for the job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.104.244.6 (talk) 21:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The article says, "The film made its official U.S. DVD debut..." That R1 (region 1) disc you rented was Canadian and unofficial; furthermore, the other DVD releases were not R1, much less American. Funkeboy (talk) 12:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

As it stands right now, the article is pretty mean towards the new R1 DVD release. Sure, the colors are a little redder and darker, and this article links to ONE website where the author prefers the PAL DVD transfers. There are other pages out there where people (who even saw the movie in the theater) comment that they think the new Universal release is more faithful to the original exhibitions of the film.

Also, if you're going to bring up all the (supposedly) negative aspects of this DVD release, I think it stands fair to reason that you should bring up the positive aspects as well, namely the official optional subtitles and the fact that it is the only anamorphic release (and, besides the original seemingly VHS-sourced full-frame Canadian DVD, the only release at all) that runs at the proper 134 minute runtime; all the PAL releases suffer from a 4% speedup, which changes the pitch of all of the sounds in the film and leaves the running time at approximately 129 minutes. Funkeboy (talk) 13:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Why even have a DVD section? Why not have an entire section for the VHS release too?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.85.58 (talk) 05:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Correction of reference
The quotation of Zizek from The Art of the Ridiculous Sublime; On David Lynch's Lost Highway occurs on pp13 not 142 as listed in references-the edition cited only has 47 pages. I tried to alter this but i was unable to because its protected for some reason

Categories
I have removed the "horror," "surrealist," and "avant-garde" film categories. Some sort of notable and reliable referenced has to be provided that indicates these categories are justified, otherwise, it is only the opinion of editors. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 14:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Possible Infringement
otac0n (talk)

The plot section appears to be a lift off of here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116922/synopsis

However, I can't exactly tell, because I don't have access to the dates/times on the IMDB page.

I don't think so, that plot is much, much more thorough than the plot published here. This plot needs revising Deliusfan (talk) 19:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced and irrel content
Even if Manson band members appeared in the film as porn stars, so what?. We need a third party source that discusses the claim and provides an encyclopedic context to the information. Active Banana    (bananaphone  18:05, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Looking at the Lost Highway (soundtrack) article, it's apparent that Manson did contribute two songs, one cover and one presumably original, to the soundtrack. This corresponds to what was stated in the interview. However, Manson's contribution is not discussed in the soundtrack article, so I don't see why it should be highlighted here.


 * As for appearing in the film, all the interview says is he "played a small part, together with Twiggy," in the film. It doesn't specify what the part was. —C.Fred (talk) 18:19, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Plot
"As it gets dark, Fred speeds down the lost highway pursued by the police as he enters a dark vortex and apparently begins to metamorphose again." I think that this interpretation is wrong. The ending scene where Fred is kind of seizuring is the moment the Real Fred is dying in an alectric chair. He's not metamorphosing again. 109.196.145.5 (talk) 16:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed the last bit "apparently begins to metamorphose again" as conjecture/subjective interpretation. However, the "electric chair" reading is just as much of subjective interpretation. Neither has a place in the plot section, since that section is supposed to merely describe the immediate, "syntactic" surface of a work of fiction. --213.168.108.201 (talk) 07:54, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Changed this to a straight description of the way the film plays. Look forward to having it reverted.207.221.248.253 (talk) 16:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Also, there were errors in the chronological sequence that I corrected, but were reverted by TheOldJacobite for no reason other than "none of these were helpful." I've seen him do this a few times and I don't understand why he doesn't want articles to be factually accurate. If a synopsis states that something happened before or after it did - or, as was the case with one of the plot notes, it never actually took place in the film at all - why is it considered a bad thing to correct it? Presumably he didn't see the film in which case it was not his place to state that it wasn't helpful and just remove everything.2.28.174.172 (talk) 10:12, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Interpretations and Allusions
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lost_Highway_%28film%29&oldid=549223261

There was no reason for this section to have been completely reverted, especially when it was both better sourced and far less controversial than the version that stated as fact that it was comparable to the Owl Creek Bridge story even though that's never been confirmed as fact. At the very least someone could have edited it a bit to make it more concise, but instead the whole thing was removed for...well, no stated reason at all. The user just said "none of this was helpful" and didn't elaborate at all, which is in itself not in any way constructive.

If you want to have an interpretation section that's fine, but you cannot make a statement of fact about Lynch's intentions just because it's probably correct, if he himself hasn't confirmed it. You can only use sources to show how it's been interpreted and who's interpreted it that way, which is what the aforementioned revision did fine before it was reverted apparently just for the sake of it. Either that or perhaps the entire section should be removed since Inland Empire doesn't have one and that's far more subjective and surreal than Lost Highway is.2.28.174.172 (talk) 09:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Genre warring for a year
For almost a year, somebody using IP addresses from Oakville, Ontario, has been edit-warring about the genre of this film. As far as I can tell, it started in July 2015. Here's a chronology:
 * 24 July 2015: neo-noir avant-garde black comedy arthouse surrealist psychological crime thriller horror mystery film
 * 24 July 2015: neo-noir avant-garde black comedy arthouse surrealist psychological crime thriller horror mystery film
 * 24 July 2015: neo-noir avant-garde black comedy arthouse surrealist psychological crime thriller horror mystery film
 * 25 July 2015: thriller film
 * 25 July 2015: (horror film category, psychological horror film category)
 * 24 December 2015:  thriller film
 * 10 May 2016: neo-noir psychological horror film
 * 10 May 2016: neo-noir psychological horror film
 * 8 June 2016: neo-noir psychological horror film
 * 10 June 2016: neo-noir psychological horror film
 * 10 June 2016: neo-noir psychological horror film

So, let's determine what genres should serve as the most important labels for this film. Clearly, it's inappropriate to string together eight genres to make a ridiculous mess.
 * Greg Olson in David Lynch: Beautiful Dark says that the film used some parts of noir iconography. Olson does not make an absolute statement about the film's genre.
 * Dennis Lim in David Lynch: The Man from Another Place reports that Variety negatively reviewed the film and dismissed it as "designer noir". Lim does not himself call the film any genre of horror or noir. He says that the film was made "with no concessions to popular taste or industry expectations," which is in essence a disavowal of any genre at all.
 * Antony Todd in Authorship and the Films of David Lynch says that the film "seemed to hang on a loose generic description of a contemporary LA noir". Todd notes that contemporary reviewers called it "baffling", said it "talks a private language", that it refused "rational explanations". These descriptions trend toward no genre at all, though Todd's own analysis is that it has something of a framework in noir.
 * Martha P. Nochimson in The Passion of David Lynch: Wild at Heart in Hollywood says that the film could be noir if it "were a high-concept, plot-driven film" like D.O.A. (1950 film). She says the wife-murder portion of the film is "psychic drama".
 * Mark Walling says in his essay "All Roads Lead to the Self" that the film "evokes a noir locale", utilizing doppelgangers – "another noir trademark". However, he notes that the film moves away from noir in the extreme degree to which it baffles the audience, leaving them wholly uncertain about what happened. Walling says nothing about horror/thriller/surrealist etc.
 * Anne Jerslev says in her essay "Beyond Boundaries: David Lynch's Lost Highway" that the film "possibly" refers several times to 1955's Kiss Me Deadly, a noir film. In passing, Jerslav mentions the film's "erotic noir scenes between Alice and Pete". Otherwise, she describes the film as having no coherence, no linear logic, no frame of reference, and no closure. Despite this, she does not say the film is surrealistic, like the earlier Eraserhead.
 * Todd McGowan in The Impossible David Lynch agrees with and quotes Anne Jerslav (above) in describing the film as "a radical departure from classical principles" of film-making. This is an argument against genre.

Based on these books, I would say that if we list a genre at all, film noir is the most appropriate, though we should tell the reader that the film departs significantly from the classic noir type. All of the other genres that have been edit-warred into and out of the first paragraph are not supported by these sources. In fact, most of these sources would point to no genre at all. Binksternet (talk) 23:19, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm the "genre warrer," and I'm all for just listing film noir. I originally got into this mess because there were far too many genres being listed and I wanted to limit it to just two, I'm not the originator of endless string of genres, I originally got into this simply with the intention of limiting it to one or two genres to appease users and still accurately describe the film's content. If you just want to leave it at film noir, that's fine, but if it's simpler, we can go ahead and eliminate all genres. I tried to avoid that though because I see it leading to more and more genres being added however, but if someone else wants to watch over the article and make sure that doesn't happen, by all means, eliminate genres entirely. 142.55.48.34 (talk) 23:52, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I can see why someone might want to disown the three edits that put eight genres together in a string, but that IP address is in the same group, from the same exact place, having the same interests as yourself. Pretty conclusive evidence.
 * Sure, let's try to keep an absolute statement of genre from the article, while acknowledging that film noir is the closest. Binksternet (talk) 01:11, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Nice work keeping an eye on this, Binksternet.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 14:17, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out, Binksternet. I was not aware this discussion had taken place. ---  The Old Jacobite  The '45  19:54, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Death and Final Films …
This may be a small point, but , what the heck … whereas it's true , Jack Nance and Richard Pryor ARE dead , and won't be making any more films … is it right to include Robert Blake with them? As of this writing, he's still alive. And just as his appearance in "Lost Highway" was probably a big surprise for folks whom probably thought he was dead … who's to say he might not crop up again in another film? ( Lots of crazy old man roles available. ). Just a thought. 75.104.174.122 (talk) 09:17, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Zizek's interpretation
In this instance, reference to Zizek as cultural critic or literary critic is appropriate as his interpretation of the film is being referenced only. What exactly Zizek's opinion adds to this article, however, remains unclear. Referring to him here as "philosopher" however, gives his opinion a false credibility as if his interpretation were any more informed than anyone else's opinion of the film. Little insight is added to the movie or the article. Furthermore, philosophy is expressly NOT a hermeneutic exercise of interpreting a text (e.g. a film) and philosophy has heuristic value. Expressing an opinion or interpretation of artwork has no heuristic value. While Zizek may be referred to as "philosopher" the entire cannon of his work issues not one single knowledge claim. Philosophy has translated for 2500+ year from the Greek to "love of wisdom". Without knowledge claims, there is no wisdom to be demonstrated, much less the respect (read: love of) for obtaining knowledge (read: wisdom). Yes, "philosophy" is used often enough as misnomer for "a way of looking at things" (e.g. "my personal 'philosophy'...") and yes Zizeks interpretation is nothing more than his way of looking at the movie, however, again use of the term "philosopher" here is misnomer and more adequately described by "cultural critic" Mixelpix (talk) 12:43, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * In this context, it doesn't matter whether he is referred to as a cultural critic or a philosopher. This is a very minor point to edit war on.  As for his opinion of this film, it is notable as it was published by a reputable university and has been the subject of a great deal of discussion amongst other scholars. ---  The Old Jacobite   The '45  13:16, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, actually it matters as Zizek's interpretation is only relevant in his capacity as someone who's interpretation is noteworthy, hence "cultural critic Zizek..." is a useful reference whereas "philosopher Zizek" is irrelevant even if Zizek were a philosopher - which he is not, nor is philosophy an interpretive endeavor. Mixelpix (talk)

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So who played Fred's sax
I wanted to know. It's a striking piece of music drama which reemerges on the radio, sharply dividing opinion. Turns out, per the soundtrack album credits, it was Bob Sheppard, a notable player. I've sort of added the info in as a 'See also' item, less than ideal I know. I'd have preferred to include a sentence under 'Soundtrack', but I don't have any focused secondary sourcing to call upon. The closest I could find is: "'...faster than you can say “Red Bats With Teeth” (cf. David Lynch’s Lost Highway), for Bob Sheppard’s solo in that classic fever dream is precisely what comes to mind.'" 86.161.190.40 (talk) 14:01, 13 September 2020 (UTC) [No COI]