Talk:Lost Johns' Cave

Name of the article
My understanding is that the name should be Lost Johns' Cave not Lost John's Cave as there were two people named John who were lost. Need to identify the orginal write-up. --Tim P (talk) 20:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

YouTube
I did not add the link to the YouTube video:, but tried to tidy it. I believe that YouTube links may be used on Wikipedia with discretion. Some may view YouTube as a whole as not being "encyclopedic" and I would have to agree. But in this case, I can think of few links that explain qiute as well what it's like in Lost John's. Have no strong view. Just saying. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:41, 26 March 2014 (UTC)


 * One problem I have with that Youtube clip is that it doesn't show what Lost Johns' is like - only a very small part of it which is very atypical. I also think a clip showing a fairly inexperienced caver getting into difficulties without getting much support from his colleagues puts caving and Lost Johns' in a pretty poor light. However, by all means put the link back. I wouldn't want to fall out over it. Langcliffe (talk) 16:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)


 * You're right it is one small part (I wouldn't expect to see a video of an entire trip!) And you're also right, it might put caving and/or Lost John's into a poor light (although, as you may know, "experience" is not always a good predictor of getting stuck!) But overall I think it gives an jdea of what caving can be like 100 times better than any textual description. I wonder if any better video clip might be available or made available. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

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Lost John's Cave or Lost Johns' Cave?
Currently the title uses the former while the rest of the article use the latter. Digging through the internet gives both results and I'm not informed enough to decide which one. (I might suspect circular spellchecking too) Felixnyancat (talk) 09:06, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * There's nothing in my original copy of Northern Caves: Volume 4. But did you see this? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The first written reference is by Balderstone in 1890 when he referred to "Lost Johns' Cave". The cave was properly explored by the Yorkshire Ramblers Club in the 1920s and 1930s. In their exploration reports, they also refer to "Lost Johns' Cave" - see here for an example. Langcliffe (talk) 09:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, the note at the very bottom of that report says "[Knowledge of the story of the two lost Johns, and the evidence of the books which mention the cave, have compelled the Editor to revise his grammar and adopt a plural form.]". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:03, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The latest edition of the caving guide book "Northern Caves. The Three Counties System and the North-West" published in 2017 also uses "Lost Johns' Cave" (page 163). The associated web page has a very comprehensive bibliography. Langcliffe (talk) 10:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: Northern Caves: Volume 4 by D. Brook, G. Davies, M. H. Long and J.R. Sutcliffe e.g. here, uses exclusively "John's". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:31, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Have now moved. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 14 July 2021 (UTC)