Talk:Lotus Cars

Copyvio
Text on the Lotus Exige was a copyright violation, from http://www.lotusespritworld.com/LotusModels/LotusExige.html. Removed and replaced with a short sentence. &mdash;Morven 04:35, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * Lots of copyvios found in car descriptions. I reworded where I noticed them.


 * Would anyone mind moving the master Lotus article to Lotus Cars (the name of the company) instead of having that redirect to Lotus (car)? --SFoskett 16:48, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

Nissan GT-R
Is there a reliable source that states Lotus worked on the GT-R? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.235.21.191 (talk) 15:20, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Lotus racing cars safety
This business of Lotus racing cars killing drivers because Colin was a nut for lightness is really an urban myth. Looking at the list of Lotus team drivers killed in Lotuses:


 * 'Mac' Frazer was killed at Rheims in a Lotus 11, but I can find no details of what happened.
 * Alan Stacey was killed at Spa when a bird hit him in the face while he was travelling at high speed.
 * Jim Clark (racing driver) was killed at Hockenheim when his car cut a tire, likely on some metal debris, and he lost control on one of the long curving high-speed straights, and hit a tree side on (no guard rails back then), right next to where Jim was sitting.
 * Mike Spence was killed at Indianapolis when he got out on the marbles, grazed the wall, and had a wheel partially torn off and come into the cockpit - identical to Ayrton Senna's fatal accident.
 * Jochen Rindt was killed at Monza when he lost control of the car (the reasons are not certain, although there is a suspicion that a broken front-brake shaft [the car he was driving had inboard front brakes] contributed - that failure was traced to an error in the manufacturing process; in addition, he had insisted on running without the wing [the car being very unstable in that condition, to the point where his team-mate was scared of it], and it was an early lap, so the tires would not have been fully warmed); after he hit the Armco, his car got underneath the barrier (which was not properly secured) and hit the barrier support, and in a complex process he was killed by a side effect of that.

There's none there you can trace to Colin's penchant for lightness. (In fact, the monocoque chassis cars he devised were far safer for drivers in crashes than the tube-frame ones they replaced.)

It's true that Stirling Moss did have several bad crashes, one caused by a mechanical defects (a design defect in which a hub failed through a flange not being radiused), but the one which ended his career has always been a mystery. The other one, if the cause was correctly deduced, was again not due to lightness.

Can anyone provide any data for the claim about lightness and danger? Noel (talk) 16:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's mostly an urban myth Chapman was much more concerned by safety issues than Enzo Ferrari. However I think this could be traced to some declaration Jochen Rindt about feeling unsafe while driving the Lotus. I think Matra officials also contributed to the legend by some declarations like "Unlike Lotus, an aeronautic parts provider can't deal with critical parts breakage" (not an exact quote). Concerning Moss, Moss was driving for the private team of Rob Walker. Despite the fact that Walker's team was probably the best private team ever in F1, Walkers cars were often in poor shape compared to works teams. For instance Walker's Lotus 72 than won the British GP was considered as a very dangerous car by Lotus Team mechanics. The problem was critical when Moss drove Lotuses : Lotus had support from Esso while Walker had support from BP. Esso forbidden Lotus to sell cars or parts to Walker. However there was a secret agreement between Chapman and Walker allowing Walker to buy parts sold by Chapman to a third party. But this wasn't made to a large scale. Chapman didn't wan't that Esso noticed his double play thus Walker remained in lack of spare parts and used some parts to the limit if not over the limit. Ericd 16:19, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily to do with safety but certainly in the earlier days Lotus racing cars had a terrible reputation for fragility. They might not kill the driver, but they wouldn't finish the race either.  Innes Ireland said of them that when setting off round, for example, the Nuerburgring, it was best to keep one's imagination on a very low light.  And when Owen Maddock asked John Cooper whether he should perform stress calculations on a new chassis design, the boss fell about laughing.  "Nah, boy!" he is reported as saying. "Chapman does that on 'is cars and 'e's up all night weldin' 'em back together when they break!" Mr Larrington (talk) 14:42, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Team Lotus/Lotus Cars
At one time the Lotus Team was splitted from Lotus Cars but when ? Ericd 20:33, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

"designed to maneuver a racing circuit and nothing else"
I am not changing this yet but it is misleading. This car was designed, based on a racing car (in the very best regarded idealistic sportscar tradition), to let people enjoy driving on public roads. One thing to realize is that English roads are curvier and smoother than those of most countries. (I think it was a French test of a Lotus Seven that told me this.)

When I was driving both regularly, I was impressed by how much advantage the Seven had, over the Triumph TR3B of about the same year, in handling (including road holding), safety, acceleration, tire wear and fuel consumption, compared to much slighter advantages of the TR3 in space, comfort, top speed and reliability. (It is true that I lost some hearing in my right ear, but that was not entirely the car's fault: I regularly drove home from work, on a Motorway, in a wind, without the driver's side side-curtain.)  David R. Ingham 06:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Branding
What is the wikipedia policy for such cars as the Vauxhall VX220 and the Opel Speedster, cars made by one company for another (I know both of these are Lotus-made)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.45.103 (talk • contribs)

Hornsea
Edited the the spelling - Hornsea is in East Yorkshire, England. The first Lotus factory was in Hornsey, an area in London, England. Indeed, as of Jan 2006, a museum is planned: http://www.historiclotusregister.co.uk/contact/lotusmuseum.htm#museum (in Hornsey, not Hornsea) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ukurko (talk • contribs)

Mid engined layout
The Cooper F1 team was responsible for the mid-engined layout, not Lotus. The first Cooper F1 cars were designed in a similar manner to the motorcycle engined formula junior engined cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.195.137.125 (talk • contribs)

Beginnings
The spelling "Hornsey" is the right one. However, the company moved in 1959 from there to Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, England; the fatory was in Delamare Road to be precise. Could anyone confirm the actual address? I believe this location was on the truck(s) they used and I think there is at least one photograph of this extant. They stayed there for about six years before settling into Hethel. Alan Beare 01:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Over Linked
Does anybody else think that the first paragraph is absurdly over-linked? Greglocock 08:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the article is basically crap, sorry to say... --kingboyk

Legendary Handling and Light weight
"possessing legendary handling characteristics". I think this is propaganda. I'd actually describe the Esprit as fairly evil right through until 1990, when it got a big dose of understeer. The limits were high, but you needed to be a much much better driver than average to exploit them. The Excel was a much nicer car to drive, the slightly higher PMI might have helped. While we're at it I'm not convinced by the light weight tag, an X180 in 1989 weighed around 1350 kg - almost exactly the same as a 6 seater Ford Falcon with a cast iron engine. (1333 kg), or indeed a Ferrari 328 at 1273 kg. Greglocock 08:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Lotus Europa - "the first affordable mid-engined road car ever produced."
Only some 9300 Europas were produced in the entire production run from 1966 to 1975. I'm having some difficulty finding pricing information, but figures I am seeing are easily above $5400.

This is price almost double that of the Porsche 914-4 (1969-1979, over 118,000 produced during the production run, also mid-engined).

Median U.S. household income in 1966 was about $7,000 (RAND Corporation figures).

I am having some difficultly thinking of the Lotus Europa as either affordable or as mass-produced.
 * I think that the phrase is justified. A basic Ford sedan in 1970 cost about $4,000, so the Europa cost just 15% more. That's relatively "affordable", and it's far below any other mid-engined sportscar of the time.  "Mass-produced"?  Well, not by Ford standards perhaps, but all the same, it was built on a factory assembly line with standardized parts, and Lotus turned out about a thousand Europas every year.  By small British automaker standards, that was pretty good.  Their previous main model, the Elite, was only turned out at about 150 a year.Bricology (talk) 22:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Founded in 1952???
If Lotus was founded in 1952, why did Lotus celebrate 50 years in 1998, with the Elise Anniversary Edition? see http://www.grouplotus.com/cars/lotus_heritage.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.96.226 (talk) 13:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Colin Chapman built his first car in 1948. However, Lotus Engineering Company was formed in 1952.  See About Lotus.  swa  q  17:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

cleaning house
In the "Previous" section, under "Esprit", it read "The Esprit shocked many at its launch; its geometric, laser-cut lines seemed far more futuristic than anything on the road -- on the cinema screen, for that matter." This is just silly, and utterly non-Wiki. I've removed it. Bricology (talk) 22:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

External links?
- swaq

Why Is the Lotus Techwiki not allowed to be added as an external link?

PLEASE EXPLAIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.74.188 (talk) 21:10, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * See External links. Links normally to be avoided, #12:
 * "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."
 * swa q  17:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."


 * Wiki running since MAY 2006, fully stable.


 * Over 10,000 members who can edit the wiki, do you want amount of editors too?


 * I dispute your edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.36.202.77 (talk) 11:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)




 * Link removed again. :| —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seloc Mr Wiki (talk • contribs) 13:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Looking at the recent changes on SELOC it seems there are only 20 or so active editors. I don't think this qualifies as a substantial number of editors.  Also, that is just the criteria for not including the link.  You still have to show that it should be included according to the external link guidelines.  swa  q  17:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand this?

Where do you have the right to suggest if a link is valid or not?

I will get the number of editors, and under your 'should' argument there is no valid reasons to not allow another wiki as a link


 * See star wars Wookieepedia link


 * See Heroes_(TV_series) Heroes wiki

Emme Lotus 422T
Article needed methinks. Actually the company Emme seems to have no article at all (see Emme disambiguation page). --kingboyk (talk) 15:27, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems to be incredibly obscure from what little I found on a brief Google search, but if you want to start an article, then go ahead, be bold. There's already this page on the Portuguese Wikipedia which you could use as a starting point. If you have the knowledge and suitable sources, then yeah, start the article, why not? Only 12 cars made though? Is it worthy of an article? Spute (talk) 21:08, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Lotus Facts
The Lotus was invented in 1983 by Jonathan Sachs.He was born in 1947.The Lotus can get up to 217mph.Its configuration is Mid engine/RWD,the engine is a Supercharged Inline-4.The transmission is 6 speed manual,it weighs 1987ibs.http://www.lotusevora1.com/images/lotus-evora.jpg http://reviews.cnet.com/i/bto/20081119/LotusEvora01_610x435.JPG.Metalshark02 (talk) 23:18, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Range Extender Engine
This has been added with refs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.7.33 (talk) 13:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Twice no less. One of those should be deleted. --Falcadore (talk) 13:48, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * They are in different sections for readability. Few read an article from beginning to end. One has been added to.88.109.7.33 (talk) 14:59, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * They are in adjacent sections, easily visible on the same screen. The various cars they build do not reappear in repitiion in Projects Undertaken'. Chose one and delete the other. I would suggest that if the engine is a completely uin-house project it should be in the ngine section, if Lotus are working with other companies and/or on behalf of other companies on this development, it should be in Projects undertaken. --Falcadore (talk) 16:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The range extender is a project and also a designed engine and soon to be production engine. If I look in the projects section I should see the projects and dates. If I look in the engine section I should see the engines they make or design. The sections in themselves are self-contained. This is common in technical writing, which is meant to be read like a reference book not an end to end novel.88.109.6.57 (talk) 13:03, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

The following sentence is garbled: "Range Extender Engine. This all aluminium, monoblock, 1200cc, four-stroke, engine is specifically designed to turn only a directly driven from the crank-shaft alternator for electricity generation for series-hybrid cars." ...to turn only a directly driven _____ what? I assume it's the alternator. 173.210.125.42 (talk) 16:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Lotus and F1
There has been a website set up at http://www.saveteamlotus.com/ which picks up on some inaccuracies with this page. Strangely it attempts to blame Lotus for this, saying that it is their responsibility to ensure everything here is factually correct!!! Anyhow, we should attempt to pick up on some of these points, although be aware that it could be seen as a bit biased so try to find alternative refs where possible. Thanks - mspete  93  20:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Please clear up some confusion.
I had some disappointments with this article (following news about Lotus). You don't discuss the Lotus-Ford arrangement - there is an article on Lotus-Ford but some mention here would have been good, beyond the half sentence in the list. And why is there no photo of the Elan? The singular most popular Lotus sportscar ever, affordable and efficient. Finally if the company was formed in 1952 as you say, then how can there be a 1948 model. I scoured the article but can find no explanation. Robotics1 (talk) 16:56, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Restructure Proposal
Hi there, I'm the IP who updated the announcements section. This articles out of date in a fair few places, and not to mention somewhat strangely ordered. There are a few changes I think it badly needs:

1. Expand and restructure history section into a periodic format, to include the Chapman years, interim period and modern international ownership, with clear dates. The present section must include the marque's current, currently unmentioned financial difficulties, including the resignation of Bahar, the sale of Proton to DRB Hicom and the uncertainty of the marque's future. The Five Car plan and its subsequent dismissal must be part of this section.

2. More detail about the current lineup. Each car should have its own subsection, each linking to a main article.

3. Lotus Engineering must have its own article. The firm splits the operations of the marque and the engineering consultancy, and so should we. They are seperate entities, and so need seperate articles.

4. The Formula One section will simply be a redirect to the current team. Lotus's historic successes will be mentioned in the history section. This redirect could be a subsection of a 'motorsport' section that also includes information on the evora 124 endurance car, etcetera, or it could have its own scetion with, lotus's GT racing mentioned as part of the description of the relevant cars and in their respective articles.

5. Fewer lists. The various past cars should be under a 'list of Lotus vehicles' and relevent timeline only, not as a great wad of text on the main article. Also, the list of engines does not need to be here, I don't think. They have their own articles, and will be linked to in either the cars' pages and subsections or as part of the Lotus Engineering article, and that should be enough.

Unless I hear objections, I'll be getting to work on this shortly. 86.177.86.54 (talk) 15:11, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the history section badly needs to be expanded. I would like to work on expanding information about the early years under Chapman. Honestly, this article really doesn't touch on any of the design philosophies in Lotus' early years that are essential to understanding why the manufacturer was seen as so innovative and successful. Surprising considering how much historical information is available on- and offline about Lotus. I'm going to start drafting an "Early Years" section in my own userspace and would be interested to see how it could fit into a more general restructuring of the history section. Rssyng (talk) 18:58, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Still Running?
I didn't think that was still going

--81.141.224.190 (talk) 19:32, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Updated 28 11 2014
I have attempted some general tidying up of this rather thin article, which, as others have noted, is rather skimpy on the Chapman years, and generally. My main revision is re the early 80s. It is not true to say that at that time the "original" model range had not been developed (the original road cars were those from the 1950s, and by 1980 Lotus was in its third generation of road cars). At that time, the Esprit was still being developed, and in 1982 the Eclat became the Excel. It is true that there was a lack of product development, with only the Esprit gaining significant updates, but the marque was not as moribund as the previous version of the page suggested.Mr Tangle (talk) 15:51, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

=I have also added some more details re the 60s and 70s. I will add some references later. Mr Tangle (talk) 16:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

== Also amended section on proposed new cars as all of these now cancelled.

Lotus SUV
I have added the Lotus SUV to the "Announcements of Upcoming Cars" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JLG123 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
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Lotus Cars Limited to Lotus Group - Significant page updates
There have been significant and complex changes to the Lotus business structure, which need to be reflected in the Wikipedia article.

 Main Suggestions: 

This is an official description from the business:

"Lotus Group is made up of a high-performance sports car business, Lotus Cars, and an all-electric luxury mobility provider, Lotus Technology.".

The majority owner of the entire Lotus Group is Geely, with minority shareholders including Etika, NIO, etc., and there are two core parts of the group: Lotus Cars Limited and Lotus Technology Inc. (Lotus Tech). This needs to be reflected in the article, and there needs to be more detail about the operations of the company, its locations globally, and its ownership structure, as Lotus Technology is no longer just an “EV offshoot of the business” but is also responsible for the global commercial activities (marketing, aftersales, sales) outside of China.

As both Lotus Cars Limited and Lotus Technology both have ultimate controlling parties named “Lotus Advanced Technology/Lotus Advanced Technologies” (see below), I would suggest changing the legal name of the company in this article to “Lotus Advanced Technology Limited” and introducing the article as:

Lotus Group (legally "Lotus Advanced Technology Limited”, also known as Group Lotus and trading as "Lotus Cars") is a British mutlinational automotive manufacturer of luxury sports cars and electric lifestyle vehicles.

'Lotus Group is comprised of two main divisions: a high-performance sportscar company, “Lotus Cars Limited,” headquartered in Hethel, Norfolk. and the all-electric lifestyle vehicle company “Lotus Technology Inc,” headquartered in Wuhan, China, with regional offices and facilities elsewhere in China and in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Germany.'

 Background: 

It should be noted that Lotus Technology Inc. is owned by Geely, which is also the majority shareholder of Lotus Cars Limited, so therefore, it is true to say that Lotus overall is majority owned by Geely.

Lotus Cars Limited (LCL), headquartered in Hethel, now plays a much smaller role in the overall brand, primarily responsible for the engineering and manufacturing of the sports cars (Emira, Evija, and Type 135, the future EV sportscar), and it also currently owns Lotus Engineering. LCL signed a distribution agreement with Lotus Technology Innovative Limited (LTIL) to make LTIL the official distributor of Lotus in the UK. LCL’s profits come from selling production Emira and Evija vehicles to LTIL for distribution and the consultancy work of Lotus Engineering.

In 2023, the commercial functions (i.e., sales, after-sales, marketing, public relations, etc.) were transferred to a new UK company, “Lotus Technology Innovative Limited” (LTIL), which is currently based in Coventry, England, although it is moving into a permanent new office in London by the end of this year. LTIL is now responsible for all commercial functions worldwide (excluding mainland China), and it also acquired: Lotus Cars Europe B.V., based in Amsterdam, Netherlands, which is the holding company for commercial operations in Europe; Lotus Tech Creative Centre (LTCC), which is the design studio for lifestyle vehicles based in Coventry, England; and Lotus Tech Innovation Centre Gmbh (LTIC), which is responsible for testing and engineering capability for research and development in Europe for Lotus.

The immediate controlling party of Lotus Cars Limited in the UK is Lotus Group International Limited. The international immediate controlling party of LGIL is Lotus Advanced Technologies Sdn Bhd, based in Malaysia, of which Zhejiang Geely Holding Group (Hong Kong, China) is the majority shareholder (51%).

The immediate controlling party of Lotus Technology Innovative Limited is Lotus Advanced Technology Limited, based in Hong Kong, China. This company is owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group.

It is expected by the end of this year that Lotus Technology Inc. will list on the NASDAQ in a SPAC listing.

Unless there are any objections or suggestions, I will proceed with these changes.

Zweeb101 (talk) 23:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)