Talk:Lou Groza/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Muboshgu (talk · contribs) 22:20, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I'll review this article this week. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:20, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good and thanks. I'm here to answer any questions and concerns and of course make changes. --Batard0 (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay, getting under way now. I'll comment as I read each section. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:30, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Dab links
 * None
 * External links
 * All check out
 * Infobox
 * Infobox includes the Lou Groza Award. This inclusion usually means the player won the award, no? In Groza's case, I think it should be made clear that he's the namesake of the award, and so never won it.
 * Added "named after him" after the award. --Batard0 (talk) 15:14, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The items in the infobox should be contained in the text. The Pro Bowl selections, All-Pro selections, and NFL 1950s All-Decade Team, aren't mentioned anywhere in the prose. Nor is the Ring of Honor. (does that differ in any way from having a number retired?) Also, his being the leading scorer in 1957 isn't mentioned, and be sure to check the "5× NFL field goal leader" entry, some of them are mentioned but not all.
 * I fixed all of these, I think (ring of honor is different from retired number). Thanks for pointing these out. --Batard0 (talk) 15:14, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Lead
 * "but was sent to serve in World War II" - Sent by whom? I assume he was drafted, best to say so.
 * He enlisted, as discussed later. I clarified this in the lead. --Batard0 (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "bad back" seems a little colloquial. "Back injury" perhaps?
 * Changed. Thanks. --Batard0 (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Early life
 * "He was the smallest of three boys in an athletic family" - Do you mean smallest, or youngest?
 * Smallest in stature. Changed to reflect this. --Batard0 (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikilink to captain (sports)
 * Done. --Batard0 (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The word "boot" also seems a bit too colloquial here
 * Agreed. Changed to "kick" --Batard0 (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * College career and military service
 * "Groza played in three games and kicked five field goals" - in how many attempts?
 * Unfortunately the source doesn't say how many attempts...I'm struggling to find an alternative that does say this; these old college games are hard to get information about. I could remove the sentence or change it if you think it raises more questions than it answers. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "including a 45-yard boot" - in addition to the "boot" issue from above, the convert template should be used for international readers who use the metric system (silly them, amiright?)
 * Changed the phrasing to get rid of "boot" and used the conversion template. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * See, now that I got to this section, it appears that Groza enlisted voluntarily, and was not drafted.
 * Fixed as described above. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Cleveland Browns
 * Yardage needs to be converted to meters, per above
 * Fixed. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * " Tommy James, Groza's holder for eight years, later said" - link to Holder (American football), also the link to "Tommy James" is pointed at the wrong person
 * Indeed, nice catch. Fixed both. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1950 : Piped links of this sort confuse some, as they think it's heading to the year article, in this case 1950 . The piped text could say "1950 season" for clarity.
 * I've unlinked all of these because I think they're just a distraction. The links are too inspecific to be useful to readers, I think. I'll add them back if you think otherwise; if they link anywhere it should be to the Browns season page, not the NFL season articles. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm okay with either having all of them linked or none of them. At FAC they may ask you to add them back. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Same thing with 1952, 1953, 1954, etc. 1951 isn't wikilinked to anything, which seems inconsistent.
 * Unlinked all of these for easier reading and low likelihood of usefulness to readers. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "while the team dominated the AAFC in its short existence, many people considered the league inferior." Can you say more on who these "many people" are? Sportswriters? Fans? Other NFL players/coaches?
 * Source says writers, plus one NFL owner and a coach. Changed to reflect that and also used "some" instead of "many" because that seems like a more accurate reflection of the source. --Batard0 (talk) 16:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * After 1956, the year-by-year details drop off. Is there anything of note you can add on these seasons?
 * I added details where I could about his later career; hopefully the addition of the material about Pro Bowls etc. will help here, too. I could put in a bit more on the tail-end of his career if you think it'd be useful, but Cleveland was not hugely successful in the late 1960s. --Batard0 (talk) 19:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "when he hung up his spikes" - also too colloquial
 * Indeed. Changed to "quit the game". --Batard0 (talk) 19:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Later life and death
 * Usage of "NCAA" should be spelled out, and FBS and Division I-A must have wikilinks that can be added.
 * Spelled out and wikilinked it. --Batard0 (talk) 19:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Legacy and kicking style
 * This is an important section, and its well done. My comment here though is that if this section is to include the word "Legacy" in the title, wouldn't this be where we should see mentions of the HoF, "76 Lou Groza Drive", the Lou Groza Award, etc? Some of it fits in well in the "Later life" section (perhaps the year of the induction?), but some of the other less time-focused items (Smithsonian) seem to be more "Legacy" than "Later life". Alternatively, you could just cut the "Legacy" out of the title of this section, though I'd advise against that since his prowess did revolutionize the importance of field goal kicking.
 * This is a good idea. I've rearranged things, putting everything about legacy and honors in the later section and focusing the later life and death section solely on his activities then. --Batard0 (talk) 19:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

All in all, a well written article that I will happily pass if some of these issues are dealt with. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:16, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

You've made the changes I suggested, so I'm happy to pass this now. I hope you consider taking this to FAC, since I think this article is very well written, and may meet those more stringent criteria (or should with more reviewer feedback). – Muboshgu (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm planning on it after a peer review -- thanks for the help making this thing better. --Batard0 (talk) 19:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)