Talk:Lucius Junius Brutus

Untitled
It says in this article that Brutus translates to Dullard which links to Mental Retardation. Does this mean Marcus Junius Brutus, Caesar's assasin basically means Marcus Junius the Retarded?
 * By a great stretch, yes. The cognomen was often passed down through the generations and lost its meaning as a word, in the same way that someone can be named "Smith" these days without being assumed to work in front of a forge. Stan 13:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * feigned slowittedness. A Colombo moment.Godspeed John Glenn! Will 11:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

This article should have some sort of disambiguation at the top, for other Bruti... just a thought. I think I know how so I'm going to do that now... Claude.Xanadu 06:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

What does quote mean?
Anyway, what the hell does the quote mean. This is the best my translator could do.


 * All at first eager new freedom populace, that not postmodum to overcome to anticipate either donis to be ruled to be able jurejurando adegit neminem In Rome pace to reign

Godspeed John Glenn! Will 21:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

But in many instances also the nominative expresses so completely the principal subject of the sentence, that it is unnatural to put it into any other case than the nominative in the translation. " Omnium primum, avidum nova; libertatis populum, ne post- modiirn flecti precibus aut donis regiis posset, jurejurando adegit [Brutus] neminem Roma passuros regnare." It will not do here to translate " adegit" by a passive verb, and to make Brutus the ablative case, because Brutus is the principal subject of this and the sentences preceding and following it; the historian is engaged in relating his measures. To preserve, therefore, the order of the words, the clause " avidum novae libertatis populum" must be translated as a subordinate sentence, by inserting a conjunction and verb. "First of all, while the people were set so keenly on their new liberty, to prevent the possibility of their ever being moved from it hereafter by the entreaties or bribes of the royal house, Brutus bound them by an oath, that they would never suffer any man to be king at Rome." Thomas Arnold ExpositionGodspeed John Glenn! Will 14:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

"Brutus' direct descendant, Marcus Junius Brutus"
The following paragraph in the section "Brutus' Oath" is incorrect and should be corrected. Contrary to legend, there is no real proof that Marcus Junius Brutus, despite the similar names, was a direct descendant of the earlier Brutus.

One of the main charges of the senatorial faction that plotted against Julius Caesar after he had the Roman Senate declare him dictator for life, was that he was attempting to make himself a king, and a co-conspirator Cassius, enticed Brutus' direct descendant, Marcus Junius Brutus, to join the conspiracy by referring to his ancestor.

Marcus Junius Brutus was a key member of the conspiracy to kill Caesar because his family conexions and his personal caracter increased the alleged "legitimacy" of the deed. The fact that his name was similar to the earlier Brutus was an added bonus that they exploited, but it is not necessarily true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.116.126.10 (talk) 11:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Descent?
The Tarquinius Superbus article states that Lucius Junius Brutus is in the royal family; I think some genealogical detail here might be interesting? Sisyphus88 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 11:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC).

Slow-wittedness
I am at some point going to check and improve this article (not too far away) but for the nonce I notice one thing I am changing: the link of slow-wittedness to "mental retardation." The article on the latter takes a clinical approach. Persons in that modern category are sufficiently dysfunctional as not to be able to live in our society without supervision. They could certainly not function at court or pass in any way as normal in society. Sometimes they are in society but only under the obvious close supervision of a guardian. That condition, whatever it is considered to be, is certainly not being portrayed by the Roman historians. Such a person would not be in the army, would not be the intimate of high officers in it, would not be at war, would not be summoned by anyone as a legal witness, and would not be a court for its entertainment. No, Livy and others meant something quite different. By now there is quite a long tradition of princes hiding from tyrants under the mask of jovial and sort of stupid fool, the sort who would never be so clever as the clever tyrant and is not ambitious and is only interested in partying and carrying on. Did you not read Shakespeare? Why would Tarquin keep Brutus around court for entertainment if he did not pleasantly party on? Even the restoration king spent his last dime on the most jovial parties in Europe while in exile, instead of wasting his time and money on subversions that were sure to attract Puritan attention and a swarm of assassins. Notice that Brutus was so far advanced in people's affections that they accepted his revelations immediately, which they would not have done were he manifestly clinical among them. He played the pleasant fool to distract and entertain, nothing more. He was quite capable. We must not in our zeal to provide Wikipedia links add to history was is not in it.Dave (talk) 00:36, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Fictional!
This article kind of fails to point out that the person it is about probably never existed. Brutus was most likely made up by the ancestors of Marcus Junius Brutus in order to conceal their plebeian origins and justify their position within the republican aristocracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glubschie (talk • contribs) 22:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the problem there might be just that we don't know he's fictional. I realise we could get into all sorts of debate about burden of proof and so on - but if Roman sources speak of this man as real and we can't find anything to say otherwise then I think we'd probably best treat him as real.
 * There is already mention of the possibility that parts of Brutus' life may have been added to the political advantage of the later conspirators. -Aculeo (talk) 01:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Much of the detail of Lucius Junius Brutus's life and acts comes from Livy and also other Roman historians. The problem is that "History" for the Romans was more an art than a science: the Muse named Clio took responsibility for inspiring historians. A history book (or scroll) was for the Romans not for silent reading at a desk, but the script for a dramatic recital, perhaps after dinner in a cultured household. That's why they are full of rhetorical flourishes, including speeches put in the mouths of the participants. The listeners wanted a story which made them feel good about the deeds of their ancestors, with clear heroes and villains. That's more like our radio or TV, or a dramatic monologue in a 19th century music hall. Maybe some historians were more inquiring and scientific than others, but their works have not all survived. The mediaeval monks who copied Roman books for us also had to listen to them being read out, and they may have preferred to copy and preserve those they enjoyed hearing. NRPanikker (talk) 00:28, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Lucius Iunius Brutus & Lucius Tarquinius Collatinus were also Etruscans!
Lucius Iunius Brutus was the son of the sister of Lucius Tarquinius Superbus. (His mother's name was Tarquinia.)

Tarquinius Family Tree : http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/3310.html Böri (talk) 09:42, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

& Vitelia was the wife of Lucius Iunius Brutus.

http://www.livius.org/a/1/romanempire/brutus_tree.gif Böri (talk) 17:12, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Personal oath is translated too literally, in my opinion.

Infobox
This article, along with several other articles about ancient Romans, was changed to use a different infobox, infobox officeholder. In consequence, there's discussion about which infobox to use and how at Talk:Julius Caesar and then at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome as a more central location. NebY (talk) 19:44, 22 November 2022 (UTC)