Talk:Lucius Valerius Flaccus

Merge
I spent some time today looking at Lucius Valerius Flaccus and Lucius Valerius Flaccus (disambiguation). I appreciate the work that has gone into both, but neither one is really conforming with Wikipedia guidelines, so I'm wondering if we should merge the two of them together. The non-disambig article is just a stub with no sources. The disambig page has three times as much information, and a source, but is definitely not in accordance with WP:MOSDAB. So I recommend that we take all the info and source from the "disambig" page, and merge it into this one Lucius Valerius Flaccus, perhaps as a section entitled "Other uses of the name" or "Other individuals named Lucius Valerius Flaccus". Anyone else have an opinion? --Elonka 20:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree completely. I also made today a very similar (but less formal) proposal at Talk:Gaius Iulius Iullus (disambiguation). --Jerzy•t 17:40, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Clarified my post, per request. :) --Elonka 19:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for accommodating my overly cautious reading! --Jerzy•t 21:34, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge now in progress. --Jerzy•t 21:34, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Record of pre-merge edit histories
When a history merge is done on a pair of pages, there's a troubling effect -- unless one page got all its edits before the other was created, and the older page was copied to create the newer! The problem is that some, perhaps many, pairs of adjacent edits appear to indicate one edit wiping out the previous text and replacing it with barely related text. The confusion can be reduced by consulting the transcriptions in the sub-sub-sections of this section. --Jerzy•t 23:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Pre-merge history of "Lucius Valerius Flaccus"
--Jerzy•t 23:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 04:00, 22 October 2008 SmackBot ... m (2,968 bytes) (Date maintenance tags and general fixes)
 * 20:26, 21 October 2008 Elonka ... (2,943 bytes) (Proposing merge)
 * 20:25, 21 October 2008 Elonka ... (2,870 bytes) (Needs sources)
 * 11:50:25, 19 September 2008 Lightbot ... (2,860 bytes) (Units/dates/other)
 * 22:15, 19 August 2008 Jaraalbe ... m (2,954 bytes) (date category)
 * 19:37, 3 August 2008 Tomaxer ... m (2,919 bytes) (Corrected link)
 * 10:40, 14 July 2008 Tomaxer ... (2,904 bytes) (Replaced incorrect succession box, added defaultsort)
 * 21:48, 7 July 2008 Thijs!bot ... m (2,798 bytes) (robot Modifying: ca:Luci Valeri Flac (cònsol 195 aC), es:Lucio Valerio Flaco (siglo II a. C.))
 * 20:34, 7 July 2008 Thijs!bot ... m (2,797 bytes) (robot Adding: nl:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (consul in 195 v. Chr.))
 * 05:19, 1 July 2008 Joris1919 ... (2,742 bytes) (corr.)
 * 05:18, 1 July 2008 Joris1919 ... (2,773 bytes) (+ interwiki nl:)
 * 14:05, 27 June 2008 Tomaxer ... (2,742 bytes) (Added succession box)
 * 17:43, 24 December 2007 83.76.173.160 ... (2,427 bytes) (la:Lucius Valerius Flaccus)
 * 19:59:11, 9 November 2007 The wub ... (2,396 bytes) (per Nov 1 discussion, removed Category:Valerii Flacci using AWB)
 * 10:11, 22 October 2007 Margacst ... m (2,464 bytes) (+iw)
 * 11:04:46, 19 September 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (2,380 bytes) (revised article to refer to consul and censor)
 * 17:24, 18 September 2007 91.6.13.8 ... (5,332 bytes) (→Praetor of 63 BC)
 * 13:16, 8 September 2007 76.247.70.115 ... (5,353 bytes) (Corrected '...when Scipio Africanus Major died, before himself dying...' to '...when Scipio Africanus Major died, before dying himself'.)
 * 21:29, 13 August 2007 Happinesspursuer ... (5,353 bytes) (→Consul in 152 BC)
 * 21:25, 13 August 2007 75.16.35.152 ... (5,358 bytes) (→Consul in 152 BC)
 * 03:22, 3 August 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (5,359 bytes) (→Consul in 131 BC)
 * 23:35, 26 June 2007 Anchor Link Bot ... (4,602 bytes) (Notifying of internal link to section Consul in 100 BC from 100 BC)
 * 00:49, 3 June 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (4,555 bytes) (added other consuls by that name, including the first)
 * 19:55, 27 May 2007 Drinibot ... m (3,066 bytes) ("Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 May 18 ":Roman multiple people -> Ancient Roman multiple people)
 * 06:15, 22 April 2007 ArthurWeasley ... (3,058 bytes) (→Consul in 100 BC: typos)
 * 05:30, 12 March 2007 HarryHenryGebel ... m (Fixing links to disambiguation pages using AWB)
 * 08:21, 6 March 2007 Thijs!bot ... m (robot Adding: ca:Lluci Valeri Flac (cònsol 195 aC))
 * 09:17, 20 December 2006 PocklingtonDan ...
 * 20:09, 19 December 2006 PocklingtonDan ...
 * 23:26, 11 December 2006 Filipo ... m
 * 10:20, 12 October 2006 Francis Schonken ... (+cat)
 * 05:54, 28 September 2006 ArthurWeasley ... (correct link)
 * 18:31, 22 September 2006 RussBot ... m (Robot-assisted fixing links to disambiguation page (you can help!) Conservative)
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Konsul 100 v. Chr.))
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Konsul 195 v. Chr.))
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Prätor 63 v. Chr.))
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Suffektkonsul 86 v. Chr.))
 * 21:49, 16 July 2006 LimWRtacCHsua ...
 * 18:01, 9 July 2006 Twthmoses ... m (removed unnecessary cat, already in a sub cat)
 * 05:39, 4 July 2006 Chicheley ... m
 * 19:22, 20 May 2006 Amphipolis ... m (re-cat)
 * 14:14, 5 May 2006 Stuart Drewer ... m (Disambiguation link repair - You can help!)
 * 03:14, 3 February 2006 24.57.130.33 ... (→Praetor)
 * 18:43, 6 December 2005 The Ogre ... m (Correcting Spain to Hispania)
 * 21:05, 6 November 2005 Flauto Dolce ... m (Popups-assisted disambiguation from Macedonia (disambiguation) to Macedonia (Roman province))
 * 02:25, 25 September 2005 Whobot ... m (Moving from Category:Republican_consuls to Category:Roman_Republican_consuls as per WP:CFD)
 * 17:31, 26 June 2005 Dejvid ... (→Consul in 86 BC: Gaius Flavius Fimbria)
 * 09:21, 11 May 2005 Panairjdde ... m
 * 22:02, 22 April 2005 Binabik80 ... m (punctuation & style)
 * 13:52, 31 March 2005 151.92.176.5 ...
 * 09:10, 15 March 2005 BerndGehrmann ... m (de:)
 * 04:33, 14 March 2005 Binabik80 ... m (cats)
 * 16:18, 4 September 2004 Gentgeen ... (Category:Republican consuls)
 * 16:01, 16 August 2004 RedWolf ... m (disambiguation: Sulla)
 * 23:08, 26 July 2004 GreatWhiteNortherner ... m (dab link)
 * 08:43, 12 June 2004 GreatWhiteNortherner ... m (Category:Ancient Romans)
 * 01:16, 26 November 2003 Wik ... m
 * 09:08, 22 November 2003 Muriel Gottrop ... m (Roman dictator|)
 * 08:47, 22 November 2003 Muriel Gottrop ... m (corr lk)
 * 21:20, 9 June 2003 Llywrch ... (fixed links)
 * 22:07, 8 June 2003 Stan Shebs ... (mention a couple that are only names)
 * 21:42, 8 June 2003 Stan Shebs ... (four Romans with the same name)

Pre-merge history of "Lucius Valerius Flaccus (disambiguation)"
--Jerzy•t 23:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 20:27, 21 October 2008 Elonka ... (4,280 bytes) (Proposing merge)
 * 21:21, 13 October 2008 Boleyn2 ... (4,226 bytes)
 * 11:50:20, 19 September 2008 Lightbot ... (4,218 bytes) (Units/dates/other)
 * 12:23, 3 August 2008 Tomaxer ... (4,298 bytes) (Corrected year and added reference)
 * 06:09, 7 July 2008 Thijs!bot ... m (4,193 bytes) (robot Removing: it:Lucio Valerio Flacco)
 * 15:06, 30 June 2008 AndersBot ... m (4,221 bytes) (robot Adding: nl:Lucius Valerius Flaccus)
 * 16:55, 2 March 2008 Wikibiohistory ... (4,190 bytes) (→Consul in 100 BC: updated, but facts need inline citations)
 * 19:59:01, 9 November 2007 The wub ... (4,009 bytes) (per Nov 1 discussion, removed Category:Valerii Flacci using AWB)
 * 10:01, 22 October 2007 Margacst ... m (4,061 bytes) (+iw)
 * 09:53, 22 October 2007 Margacst ... m (4,002 bytes) (ca:Luci Valeri Flac)
 * 11:04:57, 19 September 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (4,020 bytes) (new article disambig ~ )

Merged history under title "Lucius Valerius Flaccus"
(Entries for edits made to the "disambiguation"-titled page are in bold) --Jerzy•t 23:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 22:31, 27 October 2008 Jerzy ... m (moved Lucius Valerius Flaccus (disambiguation) to Lucius Valerius Flaccus: Merge main & talk pages from Dab ttl to article ttl, per talk page)
 * 04:00, 22 October 2008 SmackBot ... m (2,968 bytes) (Date maintenance tags and general fixes)
 * 20:27, 21 October 2008 Elonka ... (4,280 bytes) (Proposing merge)
 * 20:26, 21 October 2008 Elonka ... (2,943 bytes) (Proposing merge)
 * 20:25, 21 October 2008 Elonka ... (2,870 bytes) (Needs sources)
 * 21:21, 13 October 2008 Boleyn2 ... (4,226 bytes)
 * 11:50:25, 19 September 2008 Lightbot ... (2,860 bytes) (Units/dates/other)
 * 11:50:20, 19 September 2008 Lightbot ... (4,218 bytes) (Units/dates/other) 
 * 22:15, 19 August 2008 Jaraalbe ... m (2,954 bytes) (date category)
 * 19:37, 3 August 2008 Tomaxer ... m (2,919 bytes) (Corrected link)
 * 12:23, 3 August 2008 Tomaxer ... (4,298 bytes) (Corrected year and added reference)
 * 10:40, 14 July 2008 Tomaxer ... (2,904 bytes) (Replaced incorrect succession box, added defaultsort)
 * 21:48, 7 July 2008 Thijs!bot ... m (2,798 bytes) (robot Modifying: ca:Luci Valeri Flac (cònsol 195 aC), es:Lucio Valerio Flaco (siglo II a. C.))
 * 20:34, 7 July 2008 Thijs!bot ... m (2,797 bytes) (robot Adding: nl:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (consul in 195 v. Chr.))
 * 06:09, 7 July 2008 Thijs!bot ... m (4,193 bytes) (robot Removing: it:Lucio Valerio Flacco)
 * 05:19, 1 July 2008 Joris1919 ... (2,742 bytes) (corr.)
 * 05:18, 1 July 2008 Joris1919 ... (2,773 bytes) (+ interwiki nl:)
 * 15:06, 30 June 2008 AndersBot ... m (4,221 bytes) (robot Adding: nl:Lucius Valerius Flaccus)
 * 14:05, 27 June 2008 Tomaxer ... (2,742 bytes) (Added succession box)
 * 16:55, 2 March 2008 Wikibiohistory ... (4,190 bytes) (→Consul in 100 BC: updated, but facts need inline citations)
 * 17:43, 24 December 2007 83.76.173.160 ... (2,427 bytes) (la:Lucius Valerius Flaccus)
 * 19:59:11, 9 November 2007 The wub ... (2,396 bytes) (per Nov 1 discussion, removed Category:Valerii Flacci using AWB)
 * 19:59:01, 9 November 2007 The wub ... (4,009 bytes) (per Nov 1 discussion, removed Category:Valerii Flacci using AWB) 
 * 10:11, 22 October 2007 Margacst ... m (2,464 bytes) (+iw)
 * 10:01, 22 October 2007 Margacst ... m (4,061 bytes) (+iw)
 * 09:53, 22 October 2007 Margacst ... m (4,002 bytes) (ca:Luci Valeri Flac) 
 * 11:04:57, 19 September 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (4,020 bytes) (new article disambig ~ )
 * 11:04:46, 19 September 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (2,380 bytes) (revised article to refer to consul and censor)
 * 17:24, 18 September 2007 91.6.13.8 ... (5,332 bytes) (→Praetor of 63 BC)
 * 13:16, 8 September 2007 76.247.70.115 ... (5,353 bytes) (Corrected '...when Scipio Africanus Major died, before himself dying...' to '...when Scipio Africanus Major died, before dying himself'.)
 * 21:29, 13 August 2007 Happinesspursuer ... (5,353 bytes) (→Consul in 152 BC)
 * 21:25, 13 August 2007 75.16.35.152 ... (5,358 bytes) (→Consul in 152 BC)
 * 03:22, 3 August 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (5,359 bytes) (→Consul in 131 BC)
 * 23:35, 26 June 2007 Anchor Link Bot ... (4,602 bytes) (Notifying of internal link to section Consul in 100 BC from 100 BC)
 * 00:49, 3 June 2007 Wikibiohistory ... (4,555 bytes) (added other consuls by that name, including the first)
 * 19:55, 27 May 2007 Drinibot ... m (3,066 bytes) ("Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 May 18 ":Roman multiple people -> Ancient Roman multiple people)
 * 06:15, 22 April 2007 ArthurWeasley ... (3,058 bytes) (→Consul in 100 BC: typos)
 * 05:30, 12 March 2007 HarryHenryGebel ... m (Fixing links to disambiguation pages using AWB)
 * 08:21, 6 March 2007 Thijs!bot ... m (robot Adding: ca:Lluci Valeri Flac (cònsol 195 aC))
 * 09:17, 20 December 2006 PocklingtonDan ...
 * 20:09, 19 December 2006 PocklingtonDan ...
 * 23:26, 11 December 2006 Filipo ... m
 * 10:20, 12 October 2006 Francis Schonken ... (+cat)
 * 05:54, 28 September 2006 ArthurWeasley ... (correct link)
 * 18:31, 22 September 2006 RussBot ... m (Robot-assisted fixing links to disambiguation page (you can help!) Conservative)
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Konsul 100 v. Chr.))
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Konsul 195 v. Chr.))
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Prätor 63 v. Chr.))
 * 20:56, 26 July 2006 YurikBot ... m (robot Modifying: de:Lucius Valerius Flaccus (Suffektkonsul 86 v. Chr.))
 * 21:49, 16 July 2006 LimWRtacCHsua ...
 * 18:01, 9 July 2006 Twthmoses ... m (removed unnecessary cat, already in a sub cat)
 * 05:39, 4 July 2006 Chicheley ... m
 * 19:22, 20 May 2006 Amphipolis ... m (re-cat)
 * 14:14, 5 May 2006 Stuart Drewer ... m (Disambiguation link repair - You can help!)
 * 03:14, 3 February 2006 24.57.130.33 ... (→Praetor)
 * 18:43, 6 December 2005 The Ogre ... m (Correcting Spain to Hispania)
 * 21:05, 6 November 2005 Flauto Dolce ... m (Popups-assisted disambiguation from Macedonia (disambiguation) to Macedonia (Roman province))
 * 02:25, 25 September 2005 Whobot ... m (Moving from Category:Republican_consuls to Category:Roman_Republican_consuls as per WP:CFD)
 * 17:31, 26 June 2005 Dejvid ... (→Consul in 86 BC: Gaius Flavius Fimbria)
 * 09:21, 11 May 2005 Panairjdde ... m
 * 22:02, 22 April 2005 Binabik80 ... m (punctuation & style)
 * 13:52, 31 March 2005 151.92.176.5 ...
 * 09:10, 15 March 2005 BerndGehrmann ... m (de:)
 * 04:33, 14 March 2005 Binabik80 ... m (cats)
 * 16:18, 4 September 2004 Gentgeen ... (Category:Republican consuls)
 * 16:01, 16 August 2004 RedWolf ... m (disambiguation: Sulla)
 * 23:08, 26 July 2004 GreatWhiteNortherner ... m (dab link)
 * 08:43, 12 June 2004 GreatWhiteNortherner ... m (Category:Ancient Romans)
 * 01:16, 26 November 2003 Wik ... m
 * 09:08, 22 November 2003 Muriel Gottrop ... m (Roman dictator|)
 * 08:47, 22 November 2003 Muriel Gottrop ... m (corr lk)
 * 21:20, 9 June 2003 Llywrch ... (fixed links)
 * 22:07, 8 June 2003 Stan Shebs ... (mention a couple that are only names)
 * 21:42, 8 June 2003 Stan Shebs ... (four Romans with the same name)

Suggestion
I see that as recently as the end of October, someone has gallantly tackled this mess of a page. May I offer my thoughts?

1. The L. Valerius Flaccus disambiguation page needs to be clean and simple: an intro as here, with a simple bulleted list of individuals differentiated by the year each held his highest office (that's what's conventional). For instance:


 * L. Valerius Flaccus, praetor 63 BC

2. Each of these individuals needs to be spun off into a separate linked article, unless so little is known about him that it can be summed up in a sentence or two that can be dispensed with on the disambig page.

3. The goal should always be the creation of an article that is well-written and useful to the reader coming to it for the first time with relatively little knowledge of the subject. In my opinion, and I say this tentatively, Wiki editors sometimes spend far more effort on worrying about the apparatus of the page than they do on actual research for the article. Now, let me also say that I'm bad at the technical aspects and am extremely grateful for those with the know-how. Just saying that the end result (the article) needs to stay primary. I think I say this because I might be able to bring some order to the content chaos of this page, but now I'm hesitant because of the concerns expressed here regarding the loss or confusion of page history. I adore writing biographies of Romans of the late Republic about whom there is only limited information, and will probably work on the aforementioned praetor. What's anybody think? Cynwolfe (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

breaking out Lucii Valerii Flacci
I'm in the process of spinning off articles on three Lucii Valerii Flacci of the Late Republic. In the course of doing so, I'd like to change the format on the Lucius Valerius Flaccus page so that those without their own pages can be more easily linked to from other pages — that is, I want to give each a subhead. I confess I don't understand the formatting on the bullet list, and if I've screwed something up in making these changes, apologies, and please revert. It's been a few months since I last noticed the page, and nobody seems to have made any efforts toward clearing up the problems or offered suggestions, so I'll go bold for now. Cynwolfe (talk) 19:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Lucius Valerius Flaccus (praetor 63 BC)
An excellent article on this figure is currently underway on a user page. It hasn't been edited since June 2009, and I'm trying to determine whether it's been abandoned. If it has, I'd like to finish it off. Currently, it will appear to contain a great deal of OR; I would see my role as providing citations, as I don't on cursory inspection see anything in the article that's factually incorrect or not supported by secondary scholarship. The draft also contains notes that are syntactically disjointed. But anyone interested in the figure could in the mean time view it here. This is a user page and should not be edited until the creator has a chance to finish it or release it to be finished by others. Cynwolfe (talk) 13:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That page which hasn't been touched since 2010. The user appears to have left Wikipedia, too -- last edit was in 2012. A suggestion worth considering. -- llywrch (talk) 18:33, 4 May 2016 (UTC)