Talk:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe

IIT
Has anyone here ever met an IIT student? Architects treat their campus like a little bit of heaven, but IIT students, who actually have to use the place, hate it.
 * It's gotten better. The "bad things" that have been corrected were mostly due to the presence of the Green Line completely bisecting the campus. The new student center and dorms have helped that a little bit. I think if this campus was on the far north side by Evanston instead of on the south side across from Comiskey (as has been considered in the past), it wouldn't get nearly as bad a rap. ---Rob 18:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I am a current IIT student. It's true, the engineers hate it. I don't think they really hate the architecture, but most don't see what's so special about it. Rather, IIT has never done too great a job of keeping the buildings up, and so the original look and feel Mies intended, that would make the campus a beautiful place to be, are not really present. But...the new buildings have helped a lot, and the recent restorations of some of the Mies campus (ongoing) is helping to bring some of that beauty back. As an architecture student, yes, we too, treat it like a little piece of heaven, at least those of us that have some inkling of how special it is. --laldm 01:37, 28 June 2006

Category:Nazi architecture
Removed aas I think it's wrong. Any-one knows better, please put it back. Rich Farmbrough

Ludwig worked for part of his career under the Nazi's, so the 'Category:Nazi architecture' has been placed back. Endurance 13:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Is an architect who worked in the United States during the reign of George Bush to have his architecture called "Republican Architecture"? There is no logic to that. Mies was a-political and did nothing to support either the Nazis or any American administrations. "Nazi Architecture" is a specific term referring to Hitlers imperial classical style, which Mies deplored. Miesling (talk) 19:56, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Agreed - in 1933 Mies tried to appease the Nazi hostility to the Bauhaus and moved it to Berlin - but he and the other masters voluntarily disbanded it shortly afterwards. There's no way Mies is an Albert Speer, the Nazi's deplored modernism as Degenerate Art.--Mcginnly | Natter 10:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Farnsworth house
were you aware that Dr Farnsworth sewed Mies over the house he had designed for her. She said it was unliveable, as it acted like a greenhouse. She lost, but built a big pergola onto it much to the horror of mies and his fan club.(the pergola has since been removed)

Mies sued Edith for non-payment of construction costs (he was both architect and general contractor). He won the suit and she was required to pay. She had counter-sued Mies for malpractice in the design of the house but she lost that case. The story is her affections for Mies were not returned, and their relationship soured, resulting in much unhappiness for them both, and the very bitter lawsuits. The bronze screen enclosure of the porch was actually designed by Mies to keep insects out, but installed by another architect after the lawsuits began. The second owner, Palumbo, removed the screens and later added air conditioning to deal with the insects. There were many misrepresentations made in the poular press during the lawsuit, as there was much controversy about modern architecture for residential buildings. Some hate it and some love it. Edith said she hated it but used it for many years, from 1951 till 1972. Palumbo adored the house. I think the actual market value of 7.5 million established at the 2003 public auction of the house set a record for $ per square foot for a house. Miesling 6-16-06

farnsworth flooding
The major Farnsworth floods occured in 1956 and 1996, damaging the Primavera wood core both times and breaking glass the second time. The entire core and wardrobe cabinet was rebuilt using new veneers in 1996. The 1996 restoration updated many aging components and the building was repainted. Primavera is still readily available at veneer dealers, and is grown in Mexico and other Central American countries. The wardrobe is teak. Neither are on an endangered species list. The edits made on this subject are innaccurate and will be removed unless factual information is submitted to contradict the above. Miesling 6-16-06

Categorization
Re: Architects and their nationality in Classification I think it is much more important that the architect appear first and foremost as an Architect, and secondarily as a german or american architect. If you look at the list of Architects, the most prominent ones are missing. This is plain silly. Do I have to know the nationality of an architect to find him ? I shouldn't have to. If he's an architect, he should be in that classification, period. He can also be classified as a german architect, etc., but the main classification is paramount. Intersofia 14:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The following two paragraphs have no reference provided and seem to represent unsupported opinion that has not been documented:

"After World War I, while still designing traditional neoclassical homes, Mies began a parallel experimental effort. He joined his avant-garde peers in the long-running search for a new style that would be suitable for the modern industrial age. The weak points of traditional styles had been under attack by progressive theorists since the mid-nineteenth century, primarily for the contradictions of hiding modern construction technology with a facade of ornamented traditional styles.

The mounting criticism of the historical styles gained substantial cultural credibility after World War I, a disaster widely seen as a failure of the old world order of imperial leadership of Europe. The aristocratic classical revival styles were particularly reviled by many as the architectural symbol of a now-discredited and outmoded social system. Progressive thinkers called for a completely new architectural design process guided by rational problem-solving and an exterior expression of modern materials and structure rather than what they considered the superficial application of classical facades."

If Wiki wants to continue this unsupported assertion, please support with documentation. As one with both academic and first-hand knowledge, this is incorrect and is not what underpins the development of Modernism. [Sevely 12/27/2022] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlsline2019 (talk • contribs) 13:15, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library
I removed the following paragraph:

"One of the best and last examples of van der Rohe's architectural roots is the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in Washington, DC. This uniquely designed main branch of the United States capital's public library system, is the only Ludwig Mies van der Rohe structure in the District of Columbia. The District's M. L. King Jr. main public library is also one of van der Rohe's last major designs and architectual tributes before his death. There is one proposal to demolish the building for condominium apartments or office space during or after 2007. Concerned District of Columbia residents are fighting to stop potential developer demolition and a proposal before the DC Council. Local DC activists and residents hope to retain the building's architectural and historical integrity, and public library purpose, at its current and very accessible downtown location. One popular idea among diverse native Washingtonians, newer residents, cultural preservationists, environmentalists, fiscal policy critics and political activists is to convert the M. L. King Jr. library's large open main floor into a major retail bookstore/café and public performance space, with the basement and upper three floors becoming a 21st century digital, research and lending library, plus a landscaped rooftop reading garden — honoring the intent of van der Rohe's original adaptable architectural space design. The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library is a unique and modern contrast to the typical classical building designs dominating America's capital city — and truly consistent with Ludwig van der Rohe's architectural personality, long term functionality, contemporary spirit, user-friendly purpose, and internationally acclaimed designs."

It was under the 'Early Career' section, and being that it was his last project it hardly belongs there. It also is basicly link spam for the Library and activists trying to stop the demolition of the Library. While I can sympathize with people who do not want this gem to be torn down, this information belongs, if anywhere, on the aritlce for Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library. &mdash; Linnwood 01:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Aphorisms
This sentence: "Famous for his poetic aphorisms 'Less is More' and 'God is in the details'..." seems to imply that these quotations originated from Ludwig Mies van der Rohe. But the latter quotation, while adopted by Ludwig, seems actually attributed to Le Corbusier.--Will.i.am 18:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

POV tag - Hagiography
This is a hagiography that simply repeats the official line of the pro-modernist tendency without any attempt at objectivity. The intense unpopularity of his work among many people is not mentioned at all. Wimstead 14:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then mention it. You realize this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, don't you? 76.16.55.100 20:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Citing sources. "Many people" won't do. --Concrete Cowboy 12:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

"Then mention it. You realize this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, don't you?" - that's nonsense. The hagiographers ("editors", aka Wiki clique) will remove it, just as they remove e.g. any mention of St Pete Seeger's current support for the antisemitic BDS movement.

Mies van der Rohe bears huge responsibility for much of the horrors of post-WW2 architecture, which tore out the hearts of many ancient European cities in the name of so-called 'modernity' and 'progress', in fact nothing but trendy and fashionable stupidity. You only have to look at some of the photographs in the article - rectangular boxes with nil soul or imagination - to realise that. Assuming, of course, that you have eyes in your head and a minimum of imagination and sensitivity. This is not just my view (and I used to be an architectural photographer), but the view of many serious architectural historians. The article needs to present this view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.236.26 (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

It is entirely true that any person, man-made object or idea will have detractors. That doesn't mean every article must have a section for detractors to rant against the person, object, or idea. Wikipedia allows for that, but what would be the point if we all already know there is at least one detractor for every subject? Yes, Users typically do remove material if it has no basis in fact. A feeling or dislike is not a relevant fact unless you could cite some specific and credible survey collected votes about how a large group of people felt about a person, object, or idea. If you have some useful factual contributions to make, feel free to add a section. Cite and quote a "serious architectural historian", as I'm sure there are some, or identify a specific city where a building designed by Mies tore the heart out a center.--User:Miesling April 2 2013 —Preceding undated comment added 16:52, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not a student of architecture, but even I know that this architect's designs were controversial, mainly because they often didn't work. He was arrogant, saying that he was just trying to invent a new design, and it was the job of others to make it work. I think the article needs a "Controversies" section where the failings of some of his work, especially the earlier ones, can be objectively described. It would be great if a knowledgeable student of architecture could add such a section. Putting a glass building on the lakefront in Chicago, with no air conditioning, resulting in a green house in the summer, and iced over windows in the winter, can only be described as "incompetent." If he wanted to just be an artist, he should have just built models for museums. But an Architect designs buildings for actual use. If they don't work for the intended use, then the project and the Architect are failures. "The Third Coast" by Robert Dyja has a chapter that describes his work. Freond (talk) 21:21, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Building list
The University of Chicago claims that their School of Social Services Administration was also built by van der Rohe (in 1965): http://www.ssa.uchicago.edu/aboutssa/history/tour1a.shtml -- Tfkw (talk) 17:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No, the U. of C. claims that their SSA building was designed by Mies. Architects don't build buildings, they design them. Rick lightburn (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Tfkw, the SSA building at U of C duly added to the Mies building list. Thanks for drawing attention to that.....    --Lockley (talk) 22:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Toronto Dominion Centre logo.gif
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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

German Pronunciation
The German pronunciation given at the beginning of the article represents a distinct English accent. A correct way to pronounce it in standard German would be

[ˈluːtvɪç miːs fan deːɐ̯ ˈʁoːə]

in Unicode, but I don't know how to insert the characters using the correct font. Is there anyone who could help? Töbser 84.185.53.77 (talk) 11:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * And, all in all, I'm pretty sure there's a WP guideline endorsing IPA over


 * Pronounced "Lood-wig mees (rhymes with peace) van durr row" in America, "lood-vikh Meez fun durr raw-eh" in Germany


 * So somebody who knows how to enter IPA in a WP article, please do rephrase. 89.27.19.182 (talk) 05:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually the German pronounciation is more akin to "Loot-vikh Mees fun durr row-eh", i.e. "Mees" with an "s" as in "same" and "row" and is "row your boat". I'll change that on the main page. Passportguy (talk) 21:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

A German pronunciation would be appropriate for the German language version of the article (although the s is indeed pronounced like a z), but in America, his name is pronounced differently, as is quite common with many names. The English language version should pronounce it in the American usage. However, an additional pronunciation clearly stating it as a German pronunciation would be informative, since Mies practiced architecture there before he became an American citizen, and some Americans like to pronounce it in the German manner. Miesling (talk) 17:11, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Canadian works outside the Toronto-Montreal corridor?
Hello, just wondering if he designed any buildings outside the Upper Canada / Lower Canada urban corridor surrounding Toronto-Montreal? Perhaps Winnipeg or Vancouver? Thank you.

--Atikokan (talk) 15:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Mies' Last Work?
Hey Guys. I just wanted to point out that in this article, Neue Nationalgalerie is cited as the last work of Mies; however the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library page would contradict this statement and I believe that the MLK center actually is the last work of Mies; it was built (finished?) about 4 years after the Neue Nationalgalerie according to their respective wiki pages, although Mies had passed away at that time. I think the Mies article might be trying to say the Neue Nationalgalerie was the last building completed while he was still alive...some clearing up on this issue would be helpful. Thomaszi (talk) 22:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Death
Why tag something as `citation needed', when proof is provided in the form of a picture? Is it necessary to prove that MvdR was cremated when there is a picture of a burialsite too small for a regular coffin? Or was he buried vertically? (212.182.150.80 (talk) 19:35, 18 January 2011 (UTC)) Xavier

Wrong image captions
Two photos of the TD Centre have a caption using the word "podium". I am no student of architecture, but doesn't a podium have something resting upon it? I think the low building in the photos is correctly described as the banking pavilion. The wikipedia article on the TD Centre refers to the building as the banking pavilion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto-Dominion_Centre#Pavilion_and_shopping_concourse Blackdog824 (talk) 15:08, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the hint: the image was even duplicated and seems to be a result of a careless edit. I did some fixes. --Elekhh (talk) 20:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

File:Ludwig Mies van der Rohe.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
Request retracted.

GlennLRay (talk) 05:02, 27 March 2012 (UTC)GlennLRay

refimprove
Could somebody add the "refimprove" tag to this article (or explain why inline citations wouldn't be necessary as with any other Wikipedia article)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.52.192.26 (talk) 06:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Google doodle
There is a google doodle for this article. Can it be uploaded and added to this article? Is it ok because it is google logo?Adrian (talk) 08:07, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That probably wouldn't be okay given the strict non-free content criteria. You could add a mention to the text that he was selected as a google doodle, but my guess is that it would be deleted as trivia eventually... Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:00, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Quote by Loos
The quote by Loos is a translation of an essay title or phrase, which, to my knowledge, is commonly misquoted - as far as I know, the original meant "ornament and crime" (Ornament und Verbrechen). Hence, the entire sentence would be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.138.94.10 (talk) 11:36, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

You are correct about the quotation, Loos associated crime and ornament but didn't say ornament is crime. Loos was communicating the idea that ornament should be separate from architecture, unlike the Beaux Arts philosophy of integrating all the many arts under the overall control of the master architect. Loos had the highest respect for the artist, and felt he should be autonomous, not subject to the architects control, for the betterment of cultural development. He meant that it is a wrong for an architect to use art as architectural ornament. Historian Stanford Anderson wrote a fine paper on this subject: "The Legacy of German Neoclassicism and Biedermeier". I will reword the sentence. Thanks for the correction. Miesling (talk) 17:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Important names for modern architecture were added by IP 68.173.162.93
This IP added very important names for modern architecture, and the fact they were influenced by Mies is pretty much obvious, just from the existing WP links. I think these links as influences should be readded. Maybe a special section on Mies' influence on Modern Brazilian Architecture could be added by the IP, before the links are re-added? warshy¥¥ 19:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I reverted those edits per MOS:INFOBOX as the purpose of an infobox is "to summarize key facts in the article in which it appears. The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance." There are surely thousands of architects influenced by Mies, so listing a selection without any explanation and reference is not improving the article. I agree that a section on Mies's influence and legacy (not only in Brazil) would be great to have. -- ELEKHHT 22:59, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

In the case of architecture, the Infobox fields of "Influences" and "Influenced" are, in my view, very useful, and should be used whenever possible. I just became aware there are long debates in different WP projects about the usefulness of Infoboxes. In any case, as I said, in the case of Architecture, they seem to me very useful, especially these two fields I am referring to. I wish the IP, who had added those useful links, would have something to say on the matter of Mies' influences on Modern Architecture, and how it could be added to the article.warshy¥¥ 12:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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"van der Rohe"?
I can't see anything in the article that explains how and when he acquired the "van der Rohe" suffix? Can anybody contribute (with source)? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:52, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Literary reference
Dwight Macdonald, American writer and social/culture critic, drew a comparison between van der Rohe's architecture and the writing style of Ernest Hemingway in his obituary of the author in Encounter, January 1962:

""There is...a parallel with the architecture of Mies Van (sic) der Rohe, whose "Less is more" applies to Hemingway's style, which gets its effect from what it leaves out. [...] Because Van Der Rohe's buildings are simple in form and without ornamentation many people think they are functional, but they are in fact as aggressively unfunctional as the wildest baroque. The same goes for Hemingway's style which is direct and simple on the surface but is actually as complexly mannerististic as the later [works of Henry] James.""

http://www.unz.com/print/Encounter-1962jan-00115/

Mies Building for the Eskenazi School of Art, Architecture + Design
I recently created an article for the Mies Building for the Eskenazi School of Art, Architecture + Design. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 20:27, 21 June 2021 (UTC)