Talk:Luise Rainer

Place of birth
According to the IMDb, she was born in Dusseldorf, Germany. This article says Vienna, Austria. Anyone know which is right? --Feitclub 21:52, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)


 * According to Halliwell's Who's Who in the Movies, Dusseldorf was the place of her birth. But when Rainer arived in Hollywood Louis B. Mayer insisted her birthplace be "changed" to Vienna and her nationality to Austrian. Crisso 16:03, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

When she came to England she provided details of her life and career to Pitmans for their brilliant and thoroughly checked book "Who's Who in the Theatre". She said she was born and educated in Vienna but that her first stage appearance was in Dusseldorf. In addition she gave her parent's names. I find it hard to believe that Mayer would have had any influence over her or her correct details in 1946. David Lauder 10:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I asked the Düsseldorf register office for a copy of her birth certificate - she was definitely born there. --141.20.126.151 (talk) 14:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The consensus from biographical references (2 cited) state Vienna as her birthplace. The only one so far that disputes it is Halliwell's, however their material on her is minute (75 words), and written in the form of an anecdote without a source. The others are much more biographical, even quoting her. Apparently she studied acting with Reinhardt in Germany. Therefore, we cannot simply change her place of birth without declaring that these other sources are wrong.


 * Other books that have her born in Vienna are: The MGM Stock Company: the Golden Era; Hollywood Musicals Year by Year; Inside: The Biography of John Gunther; The Quiet Invaders: The story of the Austrian Impact Upon America; and Katharine Hepburn: A Remarkable Woman. There are others. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This German article states that she was born in Düsseldorf, Germany but she had to deny her origin since the Nazis were in power in germany during that time...User:85.176.74.244
 * Please translate relevant paragraphs. It would also help if there was an explanation of why her birthplace would have made any difference in Nazi attitudes. But in any case, the primary reference books giving her biography, describe her as from Vienna. A magazine article would not be enough to outweigh the the other sources. If you translate the article details, and include something about the author, it could be mentioned in the Early years section. But if it seems more of a rumor, and there's plenty of that in the entertainment world, it should be left out. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 19:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It says "Geboren in Düsseldorf am 12. Januar 1910 als Kind eines reichen Kaufmanns und einer Fabrikantentochter, aufgewachsen im vornehmen Hamburger Stadtteil Harvestehude." ---Translated: "Born in Düsseldorf on Jan 12, 1910 as the daughter of a rich businessman and ... [I do not know the English word], raised in the noble Hamburg district of Harvestehude." The article is from tagesschau.de which is the website of the biggest news show on German television, so I assume that they have relevant sources for this information, but I will try to get the names of those sources and write them down here as soon as I get them.
 * Concerning the denial of her real birthplace: she had to deny her real origin when she was in hollywood, probably because it would have been bad for her career to be seen as a german while the nazis were in power in germany  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.176.92.153 (talk) 22:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Today I got an answer from the author of the tagesschau.de article, he said that e.g. MGM faked the birhtplace in "The MGM Stock Company: the Golden Era" and that indeed she was born in Düsseldorf, Germany, as she herself has already told reporters in many interviews. I googled the Internet and I found more sources:
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2845151.stm (stating that she is German)
 * http://news.scotsman.com/entertainment/Interview-Luise-Rainer--39God.5954875.jp (stating she was born in Dusseldorf)
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/6398728/Actress-Luise-Rainer-on-the-glamour-and-grit-of-Hollywoods-golden-era.html (stating that she was born in Dusseldorf)
 * BBC and the Daily Telegraph are two reliable British sources. There are so many sources saying she was born in Düsseldorf, including herself. The other sources listed, that say she was born in Vienna, do not sound very reliable to me thus for me the matter is clear, I changed the birthplace in the Wikipedia article 85.176.67.104 (talk) 18:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no question that her birthplace has been published as being in two different places, and that both her parents were German. The rationale you gave above is possible. As you got the theory—of why two places are known—from a journalist, it's only his opinion. Personally, I doubt if too many people would care either way, since they were bordering countries and allies in WWII. But since you have printed cites, it makes sense to present the uncertain birthplace within the text, so readers will understand the apparent error. The "theory" is not cited, even if interesting. It doesn't make Wikipedia very reliable when it bounces around with facts that are printed in numerous places.


 * As mentioned above, most of the leading film reference books show her as being born in Vienna. If you can find some more verifiable details that can be given, you can add them to the article. But as it is, I hope you agree it only makes sense to give her most-cited, and verifiable place of birth (i.e. Turner Classic Movies,) as Vienna, and include your other cites in the body. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Most-cited does not automatically mean true. But anyway, concerning Luise Rainer, I am the opinion that the most-cited birthplace is Düsseldorf, not Vienna. There is a big chance that those film reference books all copied from what the MGM published. The article from the Daily Telegraph that I mentioned is based on an interview with her. And who would know best where she was born if not Luise herself? 85.176.94.212 (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * And see what Turner Classic Movies says now: born in Düsseldorf! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.59.149.49 (talk) 23:25, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Turner Classic Movies is broadcasting Luise Rainer films to celebrate her birthday. In his introduction to The Emperor's Candlesticks, Robert Osbourne just said Rainer was born in Dusseldorf, Germany. --JamesAM (talk) 07:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, it looks like a mystery. The Turner Classic Movies bio on her has Vienna. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 07:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I looked up ancestry.com and Luise is on a Passenger list in 1935. Here are the details:

Name: Luise Rainer. Age: 25. Female. Single. Occupation: Actress. Race or People: Hebrew. Place of Birth: Germany, Dusseldorf. Immigration Visa Number: Q562. Issued at: Vienna. Date Issued: December 21st 1934. Last Permanent Address: Austria, Vienna. Name Of Ship: Ile De France. Sailing From: Le Havre, France. When: January 9th 1935. Sailing To: New York. Arriving: January 15th 1935. Luise would have celebrated her 25th birthday onboard the ship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaron2001 (talk • contribs) 12:26, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * But you haven't added a source with it. Wildhartlivie (talk) 12:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I already said I looked it up on ancestry.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaron2001 (talk • contribs) 17:30, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:CITE and WP:REF for information on how something is sourced here. Stating it on the edit summary is not adding a source. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:04, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

How many older?
How many Academy Award winners of the past were older than Rainer is now? --RandomOrca2 19:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Only George Burns, who died at the age of 100 in 1996. John Mills died at the age Rainer is now (97) in 2005. This does not include Honary Academy Award winners (Bob Hope, Lillian Gish) nor winners outside the acting department. 84.87.228.147 11:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dates and ages
I changed some. In the sentence "She began studying acting with Max Reinhardt, and by the time she was 16, there was already...", I changed 16 to 18, because in the interview article How Hollywood 'Discovered' Its Latest Foreign Star (referenced) it was mentioned she began acting at age 16, followed by the sentence: "Two years later Luise enrolled in the Max Reinhardt Theater in Vienna." Therefore, I changed the 16 to 18.

In the same 1935 article, it was said Rainer was discovered "a year ago". Because of that, I changed the "1935" in "She later appeared in several German language films before being discovered in 1935" to 1934.Moviefan (talk) 00:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistent Dates
"Disenchanted with Hollywood, where she later said it was impossible to have an intellectual conversation,[1] she moved to New York City in 1940 to live with her husband, playwright Clifford Odets, whom she had married in 1937. Rainer and Odets were divorced three years later. Rainer had never made it a secret that she felt terrible as Odets' wife, and exclaimed in a 1938 interview: "All the acting I've done on the stage or screen has been nothing compared to the acting I did in New York, when I tried to make everyone think I was happy – and my heart was breaking."[38] She filed for divorce in mid-1938, but proceedings were delayed "to next October" when Odets fled to England.[39] The divorce was finalized on May 14, 1940."

Does anyone else see how these dates (1937, 1940, 1943) can't possibly match up? Which are correct?

Also, regarding this: "Rainer had become an American citizen in the 1940s, but they had lived in the UK and Switzerland[36] for most of their marriage." Who is this ("they") talking about? --69.251.209.87 (talk) 18:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Welcome to Wikipedia! The editing issues you mentioned are very typical throughout Wikipedia, especially where there are dozens of different sources used, some good, some bad.  For Rainer, you'll note that we're not even sure where she was born!  There are often debates on all parts of articles.  Remember too that there can be many dozens of small edits made by dozens of different people, and sometimes details are added without any valid source.  The way to handle these issues is to point out the problems and then try to fix them if you can. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Was her father Jewish?
The article doesn't really make it clear, if her father was Jewish as well. What do the cited books say? All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 00:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * They note only her mother's religion. But as they do go into detail on her parents' background, it can be implied that he was not Jewish, but only of German ancestry. Her father's name was Heinz Rainer. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 01:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Biographical information I can find on her father mentions that he lived in Houston, Texas, with an uncle after he was orphaned. Indeed, I managed to find Henry Rainer (as he was known at the time) in some Texas records, including his passport application (born in Munich in 1875). Though those do not list religion. It appears that his uncle and aunt were Henry and Melinda or Malina Freund, both of whom were Jewish (listed in the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial Registry). My guess would be that Henry Freund was his mother's brother. That seems the most likely scenario. And thus, that Heinz Rainer (Henry Rainer) was Jewish. Spartacus SchoolNet lists Rainer as being born into a "Jewish family" - . All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 05:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Brecht visa
I've removed this sentence: ''In World War II, she signed a visa affidavit to get Bertolt Brecht out of Germany because she "loved his poetry". In return, he wrote the role of Grusha Vashnadze in his 1944 play The Caucasian Chalk Circle for Rainer. However they had a disagreement and she never played it.''

Besides the four year old "citation needed", there's the problem that Brecht left Germany in 1933; he came to the US from Finland in 1941. --jpgordon:==( o ) 04:04, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Perfectly justified removal. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 05:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Excellent work by jp. Quis separabit?  14:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * By the way, does anyone know what happened to her parents and/or extended family (I know she's an only child) during the Holocaust? No mention in article. She claimed her father was a naturalized US citizen but there's no indication that they moved to the US or anywhere, nor if/that they died before WWII. Thanks. Quis separabit?  19:38, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * No, she's not an only child, at least according to my genealogical sources. She had two siblings, Robert and Fritz, but the geni.com information on them is quite sketchy (and of course could be wrong; the stuff is after all crowd-sourced.) Her Dad died in 1956 and her mom in 1961 (in Los Angeles.) Her Mom is my first cousin's wife's first cousin thrice removed's wife's first cousin once removed's husband's great nephew's wife's sister. (geni is so much fun and such a fine time waster -- but I got to thinking about her after watching The Great Ziegfeld last night.) --jpgordon:==( o ) 21:36, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the update. I am glad they survived. Quis separabit?  23:07, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Combat still
The still from Combat! Finest Hour is of Luise Rainer with Ramon Novarro, not Maurice Marsac 203.220.204.68 (talk) 16:40, 13 July 2023 (UTC)