Talk:Lullism

There's no stand-alone article here [yet]
Following up on a message I left for when he/she created this page. As it was then, the article is still redundant to the main Ramon Llull article. If there weren't people actively working on it, I would just turn it into a redirect per our various policies and guidelines about content forks and redundant pages.

@AdjectivesAreBad and (who I see has also made a series of edits), what is your plan? Unless you're going to distinguish this as a stand-alone article in the very near future, the best next step is probably to move what's here to Draft:Lullism or a userspace sandbox like User:AdjectivesAreBad/Lullism, restoring the redirect from this title to Ramon Llull. Once developed/distinguished, it can always be moved back.

Maybe a better first question to ask is how you're thinking about Lullism as a distinct topic? While I think that a very thorough academic treatment of Llull could properly cover Lullism on its own, it's a very difficult, slippery subject to talk about. My understanding (and it's been a while since I've read any of the stuff), is that Lullism refers to any esoteric derivative/application of his Ars, often combined with the pseudo-Llull alchemical writings. As the term is used so loosely, it seems like covering such a difficult topic -- one that is only tied together by his name and, to a lesser extent, Llull himself (and thus best dealt with in the Llull article). Another questions would be: what's missing from the Llull article? &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 02:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, I see many different new accounts created to edit this article. Are others working on this as part of a school assignment? &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 03:00, 24 September 2015 (UTC)


 * bump* No takers for discussing the article? &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 04:09, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late catch, been out lately. Let me concatenate my ideas and I'll be back soon. AdjectivesAreBad (talk) 04:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Sounds good. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 04:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


 * So, I didn't had as much time to work on the article as I'd wish, but it doesn't look that bad IMO. The Llull article don't have a section about his thoughts at all, just about people he influenced but don't expand on it, maybe it can be something to work upon. About the others editors I don't know about them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdjectivesAreBad (talk • contribs) 06:57, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Copyediting and Formatting
Howdy, I plan to start editing this page. My list of anticipated edits is as follows:


 * Comprehensively edit introduction section for grammar and style
 * Reformat "Thoughts and influences" section - possibly divide it into more specific sub-sections
 * Copyedit "Thoughts and influences" section
 * Clarify content: Much of the information elaborated in the references section ([5] and [6]) could be moved to the main body of the article

I will be keeping an ongoing list of potential edits on my personal Talk page. Once the list is more fleshed out, I will publish it here. McCoppin (talk) 05:55, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

I started revisions. I updated the introduction to reflect an accurate definition of the term. I plan a larger rewrite with the following sections


 * Logic
 * Mystical Theology
 * Hermeticism
 * Lullism in the New World
 * Rationalism

Dempstere (talk) 09:05, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Missing Information
This page contains information about Ramon Lull's background and Lullism's relationships with other religions, but it doesn't contain much information on what Lullism actually is and how it works. I am not knowledgeable on the subject, but if someone is, it might be beneficial to add a section on that. McCoppin (talk) 20:07, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Stand-alone article [revisited]
This article has significantly less information about Lullism than the longer article on Ramon Lull, and no information about the subject that is not included there. Rantalaiho74 (talk) 18:52, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

I would recommend merging or revising. This article describes aspects of Llull's life and the Lullian Art. It does not give any information about Lullism, a term which refers to Llull's later reception. I will work on this. Dempstere (talk) 08:17, 26 September 2021 (UTC)


 * [Moved this to the bottom (where new threads go)]. To clarify my de-prodding, I'm in agreement that this doesn't need a stand-alone article for all the reasons I mentioned six (!) years ago above. I just don't think we need to delete the history (what proposed deletion does). For deletion, I think it merits having a full discussion at WP:AFD. But there's not really much point in deleting. I was about to come back to just try redirecting this to the main article, but I see there's been a bit of work done. If that works for you, go ahead and redirect it. Alternatively, you may want to start a merge discussion. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 16:55, 26 September 2021 (UTC)