Talk:Lunamaria Hawke

Love interests
In the start of the series she was feeling towards Athrun, She loves him but he no, But after he defected she wasn't feeling the same as before, She start getting close to Shinn as possible and so, She still feels something towards Athrun...Maybe she likes him as a friend or her commander but in the lasy battle she fought him and tried to hit him because she blame him for what happened to her sister, I can't see how she loves Athrun after that not that she hates him but not for a limit for being her love interest, I don't know why some guys trying to add that Athrun is her love interest with Shinn, Also I want to add that Special Edition is a retcoon for the series and the writer/director are trying as hard as they can to make the relationship between Shinn and Luna is a normal relationship based on love, Not a strange one like what happened in the series(I mean how it started), They want to make the both feeling something towards the other or at least Luna having that feelings.

Is there any reason for stating that Athrun is her love interest? Then say it here.Astrys 12:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * She deliberately spends a lot of time with Athrun and she gets very jealous when she think Athrun's had sex with 'Lacus'.Edward321 15:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * And she deliberately gets close to Shinn is ep38 and acts in a strange way, and moved her head to kiss him, Even is she spends more time with Athrun but without a kiss or even a hug, But in 12 episodes with Shinn you know what happened, Also Special Edition is a retcoon for the series and Fukuda is deliberately trying to make a more believable and closer relationship between them, And you know that Luna had no such feelings of love towards Athrun in SE, Sorry but if you are a fan of both Athrun and Luna and trying to make such a sense of love between them...That's not the right place...Sorry again but the series and Special editions describe more and are more better as a fact than us, It would be enough for fans that Luna's
 * Love Interest: Shinn Asuka
 * Hero Crash: Athrun Zala
 * It would be fair and enough, Sorry again.Astrys 00:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Level of on screen physical intimacy is not proof or disproof of love, otherwise Kira-Fllay is the only real couple in the series. And physical intimacy is rather unlikely when the affection is one-sided as it obviously is in this instance.  I have not seen Special Edition, but even if it retconned away all instances of Luna's interest in Athrun (which I doubt) that would not change that Luna was interested in Athrun throughout the first half of the series.  Let me also note my stance has nothing to do with being a fan of Athrun-Luna - it was obviously one-sided and Luna had fallen for Shinn before the end of the series.  But that doesn't mean Luna was never attracted to Athrun.  Edward321 14:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You said it "She was interested in Athrun" That was from the past in the first half of the series but in the 2nd half it's changed she is on love with Shinn, Also Special Edition retcoon what happened in the series, In TV series first half Luna was attracted to Athrun very much and in the same time has no feelings towards Shinn more than a fellow, But SE tries to create some interest between Shinn and Luna from the start and little feelings to Athrun, Because they know how stupid and strange the relationship between Shinn and Luna Started in TV series, Well and you must know that having some feelings or some interest or being attracted =/= love interest, The feelings of Luna to Athrun wasn't developed into a Love(Love Interest) because Athrun never cares about her but in Shinn's case it was developed to a strange love because as I think Shinn was a bit jealous from Athrun but the fans of a couple Luna and Shinn don't like that, So the director and the writer wants to make a clear and more better way to start their relationship by focusing on both from the start, Also I'm not saying that Luna has no such of feelings to Athrun in SE, All what I mean is that SE is a retcoon of the series and Luna hasn't that big attract and cares a lot about Athrun but she still thinks that Athrun is that nice, gentle, ... and the commander rather she has some feelings to Shinn.Astrys 00:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You appear to be defining Love Interest differently than the majority of pages on Wikipedia. Athrun does not have to return Luna's feelings for her to be interested in him.  You yourself say she is still shown as having an interest in Athrun in SE, thus Athrun Zala is Luna's love interest.Edward321 01:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Then your logic says: If a girl is a fan of a popular guy then she is a Love Interest of him, Oh you mean that Every fangirl for Athrun takes him as her love interest Oh please your logic is wrong, Even if Luna still has a pit of interest to Athrun in SE it's not a love, how many time I need to say for you that Fan,Interest =/= LOVE.


 * Oh I guess there are over 100 women in Plant who is a Fan for Dullindal so Dullindal is there Love Interest...please think again.Astrys 10:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No need to be insulting. Your examples of fangirls and hypothetical characters who never appear in the series are irrelevant. Edward321 15:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Fine, But your logic is wrong, Luna didn't ever acted in the first part of the series as she loves Athrun, She acted like any fangirl of him, If she was a bit interested on him in SE like any fangirl "OH...He is a nice guy" that doesn't prove that she loves him, How many time I need to tell you that Interest =/= love.Astrys 22:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Lunamaria seems to have a relationship with Athrun, like she is a fangirl, similar to Meer Campbell, and is infatuated rather than a regular love interest. So otherwise, she seems just to have a crush on Athrun, (in the first half of GS)Musicalmelodygirl 09:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * My opinion is, there is no point in this at all. Who she likes or love is pretty much speculation and unless there are official sources stating her relationship, it should not be written when in doubt and no consenses could be made.  And according to the character relationship graph of the Seed-Destiny official data file No. 2(which is the relationship of the characters in the second quater of the series) Lunamaria's arrow pointing to Athrun have the word 好意 on it, which means she got some good feeling for him, interested.  However, it is different from the arrow pointing Melin to Athrun, which is 憧れ (Something like Person of her dreams, not limiting to love interest but also can be someone she respects).  And very, I mean, VERY different from the arrow pointing from Mia, which got the word 好意, but also with a big heart on top of the words.  And Cagali, having 好き(love/like) with a heart.  I will post the picture of that graph if anyone want to have actual proof, but I am too lazy to do so now as nobody is asking for it, yet. MythSearcher 07:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. Forgot to sya, in the data file No. 1, Cagali's arrow to Athrun is two headed with the words Lovers and a heart on it and Lunamaria's arrow to Athrun is just the same as Rey and Neo, 気になる　something like concern. MythSearcher


 * Interesting and thanks for the info. For contrast, does this chart show any arrows between Luna and Shinn and if so, what sort of notation is on them?  Also, are there comparable charts for the third and fourth quarters of the series? Edward321 05:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The arrows between them is 仲間 meaning something like friends/teammates. I think the chart in the official data file No. 3 and 4 will be different.  The one on 4 I fore see it being lovers, but I do not have a copy of those, yet.
 * Side note, the reason of Athrun and Cagali broke apart is because fukuda(the director) and the voice actress of Cagali had some kind of argument and fukuda is just so unprofessional that he insisted in changing the story to make Cagali appearance minimal and have no need to use the voice actress anymore. (so basically he fired the voice actress by eliminating the job vacancy instead of actually firing her, which he has no power in.) MythSearcher 07:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, could you tell us your source for this? Such a serious accusation shouldn't be just thrown around like nothing. Lunamaria 20:56, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Tried to change 'Love' to 'Love Interests' for consistancy with other Gundam character articles, but it seems to have deleted the line. (It looked fine on 'Show Changes' so I really don't understand. Did not revert who Luna's 'Love Interests' are - I agree with Shinn and am not putting Athrun in again until this can be resolved. Edward321 05:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think Lunamaria has love interest in Athrun, either, she is interested, but I highly doubt it is love since the wordings used in the official files. the third quater and the fourth quater of the series really did not have to much about these love interest stuff other than her loving shinn, Cagali broke up with Athrun and Talia with Dulandal.  Fukuda used so much time in showing what happened before rendering the second half of the series with a story less than a quater of the series in the first half. MythSearcher 07:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I could add one point to this old discussion regarding Arthun: When she takes shower and talks te Meyrinn (which in turn trying to put on Luna's skirt) she says: 'But I thought he's only one year older than me'. I can't see any point in calcualting age difference when you're fun of (boy\girl), but there is a point when you're in love and have some, he-he, matrimonial plans.
 * This assumtption also fits into another mozaic - her later relations to Shinn. More than strange to develop hugs-and-kisses relations with person that just killed your sister only because he's regretting it and feels sorry for you. But several scenes showed us some competition between sisters on Athrun's case. And this makes a point: she quite likely just carrying on this competition with 'probably dead' (oh, don't tell me that person would fully believe in so close relative's death in one minute) sister - making relationships with _better pilot_.Gellemar (talk) 21:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It is revealed and seen in some episodes of Gundam Seed Destiny of Shinn's feelings for Luna and Luna's feeling for Shinn. In episode 8 Luna was checking on Shinn to see how he was feeling about being back at his homeland of ORB. In episode 10 Luna was worried about how Shinn was feeling about ORB becoming an enemy of the PLANTS, and even saw a concerned look on his face in the mobile suit hanger room. In episode 16 in she was talking to Shinn and they got into a small fight when it was over she expresses frustration over it, Rey Za Burrel gave a rare smile during this. In episode 30 Shinn became angry how Athrun was moping around when he wasn't injured when Lunamaria was gravely injured. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 20:43, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Heres the thing Athrun is Lunamaria's crush or should I say former crush she does not love him at all but she does however love Shinn her romantic interest got it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 20:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Lunamaria's Personal Views and Feelings About the War
In my view, Lunamaria Hawke is personally feeling torn, troubled, confused, and horrified about the war she's fighting in, especially when she's heard about the brutal truth behind every war and conflict, which is passionately and vividly described by Athrun Zala, and she realizes that the cause of Shinn Asuka's mad killing rampage and blind rage would eventually destroy them all, so she jumps in between Shinn and Athrun, and beg them to stop further fighting. However, Shinn is far too blind with rage, and being haunted by the ghosts of his War-Torn Past (His Tragic Love, Stella Loussier, and his sister, Mayu Asuka); hence, he disregards of Lunamaria's sincere plea, and is about to kill both her and Athrun anyway. Thanks to Athrun's intervention of turning into SEED Mode, which defeats Shinn's Destiny Gundam and sends him crashing upon the moon surface, she has been saved by him. Later, I guess she holds a tearful Shinn as she tries to comfort him from the pain and sorrow of his grief and rage. As the Final Plus: The Chosen Future OVA ends, Lunamaria and Shinn hold onto each other as they leave the war memorial of Orb. I guess both has finally realized that it's meaningless, pointless and fruitless to fight a war with blind rage and hatred. Please fix the page's errors asap. Thanks, bye! 16:26:00 2006. 06. 25 (Pacific Standard Time) -- The Professional 00:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC) -- Chao-Chen(Jack) Lin


 * No, I think you are wrong but not in everything.
 * First, Lunamaria's view about the war hasn't described well in the series, She didn't even said if she is fighting for anything or if she has any aims or anything, Yes, her feelings were shaken and even she doesn't know what side is doing the right or what side is wrong, And that was clearly shown in the last battle when Athrun said his idiotic words "You are destroying the future". Bad words that came from the person (Shinn) who is claiming that the builder of the better future is the destroyer of it, Shinn's mad killing rampage and blind rage wouldn't ever destroy them all rather it was the only way to destroy the jealousy guys who is claiming that they are fighting for world's peace and for a better future but in the real they made all that battle(the last one) in order to drop the government of Plant and kills Dullindal the person who was trying to achieve the peace everywhere in the world by Destiny Plan (well at the end of Final Plus Lacus was shown as the chairman or something like it and in SE there are pictures of Kira with white ZAFT uniform, and that's an evidence that all of the war against ZAFT was just to drop the government of Plant, Not just that also to be the controllers of it).
 * Because of her weak mind and unspecified opinion and aim about the war she was affected by Athrun's words easily and that lead to her idiotic act(jumping in between them) to end the fight(like she cares more about Athrun than Shinn).


 * Second, (Shinn is far too blind with rage ...about to kill both her and Athrun.) is wrong too, because it was Luna's fault to jump in between them, Shinn used Palma Fiocina and moved towards Athrun before Lunamaria's act(he was too fast in that time because of wings of light), And when he saw Lunamaria, he was shocked and blinded by rage, unable to think what he must do know(Stella's ghost make it worse), not as you said as he disregards what she said, maybe he will refuse, but her act was idiotic and it was her fault, there is another ways to stop it but if you really think well in what happened you will realize that she is the one who tried to kill him not the opposite because any mistake and Athrun would kill shinn and he would be sent to hell, just consider that when Athrun tried to attack Destiny by the sabers, if Shinn moved right or left and the saber hit the cockpit! Then Shinn will die and what Lunamaria will gain from that just nothing.Astrys 23:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * On the contrary exactly, I've been just describing what Lunamaria has been thinking, and her interactions with both Shinn and Athrun.


 * Throughout the course of the series, she suffers some heavy personal losses, such as the supposed deaths of Athrun and her little sister Meyrin, when Shinn destroys the GOUF Ignited as they tries to escape, and the traumas afterwards. During the Battle of Messiah, Lunamaria has finally realized that war is meaningless and pointless, if she should lose her friends and family forever as she keeps fighting, so she jumps in to intervene and interpose between Shinn and Athrun, because she cares both of them, unlike what you've described. Had Athrun not timely entered SEED Mode, everyone will die for sure, including herself. Please fix all errors asap. Thanks, bye! :) The Professional 19:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC) --Chao-Chen (Jack) Lin


 * How in the hell does she realized that war is meaningless and pointless in the time where Athrun and Shinn was fighting considering nearly before 2 min she was trying to kill Athrun? Ha, it's like she was just preventing Shinn from doing his job? or it's that she wants to kill Athrun by herself and just if she fails then no-one must touch Athrun!, I know how she realized that but it's illogical, as I said before(she was fighting Athrun before and then...), Your idea is that Luna done the crazy act because she cares about Shinn and Athrun and her hate of fighting is maybe true but it was done in the wrong way in way that a person like shinn in that situation wont ever understand what she does, You know Shinn rushed and fired the cannon to rescue Luna from Athrun's attacks and his statement "HOW DARE YOU HURT LUNA" proves how angry he was, then used the Arondight and starts fighting, you know that shinn was fighting for his aims for Dullindal's aims for Luna's aim of peace forever and no war again for what is the best for humanity and future, But in a blink of an eye she jumps in to intervene and interpose between them because she wants to end the fight but there was better ways to do this than just putting their lives into danger, Athrun saved Luna and he defended himself against the Palm cannon but what about Shinn? if he just moved Destiny left or right after Athrun has blocked the palm cannon don't you think that the sabers will be inside the cockpit/torso and Shinn will die and Luna wont gain anything by that.
 * I understand what Luna did but it was really not the best way to do, Shinn was unable to understand her act in this time because of rage, confusion and unacceptable idea of being defeated, as well as she did that in the worst time, do you know that some guys are calling Luna a traitor for what she did, because she betrayed Shinn, if she really cares for him she wont do that, at least not in this time rather she only cares for herself, her sister(who betrayed her and everyone) and Athrun.


 * You said (Lunamaria has finally realized ...forever as she keeps fighting)


 * Fine, but don't you think that she was really at the edge of losing shinn because of her act, If she really cares about both Athrun and Shinn, she won't fight Athrun, She will ignore him or fight with him against ZAFT Mses, and when Shinn arrives she will talk to him trying to persuade him that war is meaningless and pointless, and really her act proves that she doesn't care for Shinn as much as she cares for Athrun, when Athrun was on the way to defeat Shinn(broke the Arondight) she didn't move or do anything, but when Shinn tries to defeat Athrun(using Palm cannon) She jumped in because she felt that Athrun is going to die, and as I said before if the sabers hit Destiny and shinn dies what would she gain from that? even if her feeling towards the war as what you have mentioned, she was maybe some type of a hypocrite who was joking at Shinn all the time.Astrys 22:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, are you saying that my statements of Lunamaria Hawke are full of lies? What about the times when she feels insecure and indecisive during the Battle of Messiah, and the times when she's along with either Athrun or Shinn? True enough, she could have been angry at Athrun for taking her sister Meyrin away from her, and thus attack him wildly with fears and frustrations, but when Athrun and Shinn keep fighting on furiously against each other, she's slowly realized something has gone terribly wrong. Shinn's mad rage threatens to destroy everything in his path, even it means Lunamaria would have to die as sacrifice. When Athrun angrily points out and questions that Shinn is fighting for his lost causes, Shinn refutes and cites the failures of Orb and himself during the wars as the reason to destroy Orb once and for all. This aggressive and angry answer really horrified and scared Lunamaria, who believes in nothing more than protecting her friends and love. Therefore, when Shinn goes for the Final Kill, Lunamaria jumps in and desperately begs both Athrun and Shinn to stop fighting, because she now knows that no one would win in a meaningless battle. If Athrun hadn't timely intervened by turning into SEED Mode, and saved Lunamaria from Shinn's Palm Cannon Attack, all sides would certianly lose! Thanks, bye!The Professional 07:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)Chao-Chen (Jack) Lin


 * No, I'm not trying to say you are a liar, but I meant that it was illogical how she realized that, I mean how she believed all that nonsense that came from Athrun, who said, "You are destroying that future" and before(in previous episodes) that she was fighting for Zaft with no doubt and believing in what they was doing???, if she feels that war and fighting is meaningless, then why she didn't tell Shinn about what she really feels? or if she believes that war is meaningless why she didn't tell Shinn that and helped him to make a clear decision? or why she didn't make her final decision before the start of that war against TSA? Don't tell me Athrun's statements done that....how in the hell somone could believe all that nonsense. Shinn's rage threatens to destroy everything in his path for the sake of the better future for the sake of what people really want, and if Luna has to refuse with that and stop Shinn from doing his job then she is a traitor and deserves to die. Shinn's rage won't destroy the future; rather, Luna's mad acts are the reason why the future is destroyed, After she thought Shinn had killed her sister and Athrun, she was caring for them too much but in the same time both Meyrin and Athrun didn't care for her, However the only person who cared for her very much even more than her sister (I mean Shinn) she didn't care for him in the last battle and start making doubts in him for a limit that she put herself and him in danger and was going to let him die for the sake of her personal idiotic opinion, If Athrun didn't turn into SEED mode, Luna would die and Athrun won't be in a better condition(although it was her fault), but as I pointed before if a saber hit the cockpit of Destiny, doesn't that mean Destiny will be destroyed and Shinn will die?Astrys 22:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I must disagree with that. Like I've said before, Lunamaria has been indecisive and insecure about her friendship with either Athrun and Shinn. Furthermore, implicitly, what good would it do, if she watches everyone around her suffers, including herself? Absolutely nothing at all!
 * To make the matters worse, gradually, she's become like the Gundam Seed Destiny Version of Ophelia, as in Shakespeare's Hamlet. Why? With the physical and psychological loss of her one-way love Athrun and her little sister Meryin, I'd say she's quite devastated by the shocking news. Then who's Hamlet in this case? I think it's Shinn, no doubt about it!
 * The Professional 03:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, even while there is some sense here, but to equate Shin to Hamlet is pure nonesense. Absolutely different personalities and relations with others and with facts. Yes, Luna-Ofelia loses her love... But who is here thinking about future, justice and stuff, and not paying much attention to those close people who love him? Shin? Shin thinks only of his past. If we would try to equate GSD and Hamlet - then Hamlet is exactly Arthun. And Shinn is more like Laertes in this case... also big 'protector of poor' who not choses means. But anyway GSD and Hamlet are very far one from another.Gellemar (talk) 21:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, all of this would fall under original research. There's too much self interpretation about Lunamaria's feelings that wouldn't warrant inclusion into the article. Fox816 (talk) 06:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

What Luna hates in the war is the Chairman and Rey for they took away her sister made her hate Athrun and manipulated, controlled, and nearly drove her beloved Shinn to insanity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 20:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Recent Updates
Reverted Taekwondo Master Lin's recent edits again, because they are speculation (original research).

For example - However, finally realizing from Athrun's statements that Shinn's mad killing rampage would certainly destroy everything and everyone she holds and loves dearly, - This is several assumptions - that Shinn is about to go on a killing rampage, that it will destroy 'everything and everyone' Luna holds dear, that Luna realizes this, and that Athrun's words are the only reasons she acts. None of these assumptions are stated in the series.

Also - (On top of that, he's haunted by the ghosts of his past, and intends to kill her and Athrun altogether at once) - This is another assumption - it's unclear whether Shinn realizes Luna has interposed herself, let alone that he's deliberately targeting her.

Also - Athrun then cripples Shinn's mobile suit beyond repair and Shinn screams and crashes painfully upon the surface of the moon. - The biggest assumption here is that the mobile suit is beyond repair. After all, Kira's mobile suit was in far worse shape at the end of Gundam Seed, yet it was repaired. Edward321 05:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * (Here's My Reply)


 * 1st, I must disagree with your remarks about my "Assumptions", as you call them. From the start of the Series, Shinn has been going on in a killing rampage, especially after witness the death of his family, and his tragic love, Stella Loussier. This trend, along with his hatred towards Orb and the Earth Alliance, causes a lot of pain and anger in his part. Hence, he's done horrible thing in rage and retaliation (Much like Anakin Skywalker, AKA Darth Vader, did).


 * 2nd, Shinn's rage causes a lot of pain and sorrow around him, especially when he goes on to destroy Kira, Athrun, and other important persons that he shouldn't kill. When he did that, it really gave some people the horror and fear, like Lunamaria and Athrun did.


 * 3rd, and Finally, I still believe that Shinn is far too enraged to listen to anyone at all, during his mortal combat with Athrun. Even Athrun's solemn warning and Lunamaria's sincere plea do no good to Shinn himself. On top of that, when Lunamaria jumps in between Shinn and Athrun, begging them to stop fighting, Shinn's hallucinations of the ghosts of his past (the Gundams, his family and tragic lover), was too powerful for him to shake off, so he goes on to kill her and Athrun altogether at once. Delibration is evident here. And As for the Destiny Gundam, I'd definitely say it's beyond repair, since Athrun's Infinite Justice Gundam did do the critical damage to the Destiny Gundam, and it was never flown again.


 * I hope my explanation will help me you clear up the misunderstanding. By the way, could someone please stop erasing my editing of "Final Battles" Paragraph of Lunamaria Hawke's webpage?! Thanks, bye! The Professional 06:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I must tell this basically you're describing Shinn as if everything is his fault while some of it is the one's who were to blame are The Chairman and Rey plus I have my suspicions that Shinn was going to disable the Lunamaria's rather than destroy. well see ya.--Tylerwade123 (talk) 21:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)