Talk:Lupin the Third/Archive 1

Episode titles
Can someone please create seperate pages for the the three TV series and move the episode titles there instead of just simply deleting them?

Missing Movie?
I've got a DVD of a Lupin III flick called "The Secret of Twilight Gemini" that I didn't see mentioned in any of the text (it does have a blurb at the bottom, and it's own stub). Unfortunately I don't know enough about it to warrant editing the page, but it is the first one I've seen (and I make no claims to having seen them all, or even most of them) that included nudity. Anyone have more info on it? -- Geminidomino 09:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Twilight Gemini is a Lupin III TV special thai aired in 1996.

Lupin III or the 3rd
So is it Lupin the 3rd or Lupin III? Title is inconsistant with text. Rick'''K 23:25, Jul 4, 2004 (UTC)

http://www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=LUP&categorycode=BMG&page=characterinfo

This says Lupin III. I will move it. WhisperToMe 00:56, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pioneer's promotional stuff usually has "Lupin the 3rd", which is why I chose that particular name when I created the page. - Furrykef 19:06, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The Japanese original won't be much help in this case, since they actually use a kanji/hiragana combination that means: "the third".


 * Actually it's just kanji. - furrykef (Talk at me) 21:35, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

How did it inspire Cowboy Bebop? O.o


 * The similarity of some of the characters. Lupin -&gt; Spike; Jigen -&gt; Jet; Fujiko -&gt; Faye. - furrykef (Talk at me) 07:56, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

The right and official names are:
 * ルパン (Rupan) 三 (third) 世 (generation)
 * Lupin the 3rd (as in the official japanese site: http://www.lupin-3rd.net/)
 * Lupin the third (as in the official Lupin/VAP site: http://www.vap.co.jp/lupin/)

Lupin III is unofficial but OK, because III is the roman/latin number for third Arsene is wrong, because it refers to the french Arsene Lupin; the japanese Lupin, as in website above, doesn't have the name Arsene or Arsenio. -- 80.182.78.25 13:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there any official source for what his first name really is? It's a Western convention that order to give someone the III or "the third" suffix, his name must be identical in all respects--first, middle, and last--as his ancestors. --Robotech_Master 19:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure official sources have used the name Arsene Lupin at one point or another, although I don't have a specific source in mind. In any case it's obvious that "Lupin" is a surname and, being the grandson of Arsene Lupin, he would thus be Arsene Lupin III. That an official website or two may have omitted his first name is irrelevant; it doesn't mean it isn't there. It's probable that they just didn't mention it because he's almost never called "Arsene" anyway. - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think, if Lupin III is the grandson of Arsene Lupin, his complete name and surname (probably) is: Arsene Lupin III. But Monkey Punch never used the name Arsene, but only ルパン三世 in his manga. So I think Lupin III doesn't have a name; Lupin III probably is a pseudonym and the real name and surname are unknown. Here some official site, and no one of this report the name Arsene: http://www.tms-e.com/on_air/lupin/ http://www.futabasha.co.jp/?author=35009 http://www.lupinofficial.com http://www.lupinthe3rd.com http://www.toho-a-park.com/video/new/lupin/d_index.html -- 80.181.80.223 08:41, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty darn certain he really is Arsene Lupin III. I have Vol. 1-5 of the manga, and I remember there was one featuring Arsene Lupin II and I believe they talked about the original Arsene Lupin (in the context of being Lupin II's father). Granted, I was reading a translation, but the translation is supposed to be reasonably faithful to the original. - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * His name is Arsene Lupin III. It states this in the manga.


 * In an episode of the first television series, Episode 19, Ganimard III (The Grandson of Arsene Lupin's pursuer) flies into Japan from France carrying the belongings of Arsene Lupin. He states on the air that he considers them worthless and Lupin III throws a fit and specifically screams about his grandfather's things being referred to as worthless.  The episode also contains a scene where we see a brief glimpse of Arsene Lupin (The original) leaping onto a wall, followed by an identical shot of Lupin III.  The two appear almost identical save for the fact that Arsene Lupin I wears a top hat, cape, and other assorted things and has a beard.  It's pretty clear that he is intended to be the grandson of Arsene Lupin.  If need be, I can furnish some pictures of the episode as well. Palehorse864 03:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't have a scan at the moment, but the theatrical program for the Japanese release of "The Golden Legend of Babylon" has a character profile for each of the lead roles. Lupin's profile is headed with the name "Aruseenu Rupan Sansei" in katakana/kanji ("Arsene Lupin III"). -Reed Nelson —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.43.51.147 (talk) 09:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC).


 * In "Missed By A Dollar" / "$1 Money Wars" Lupin is called Arsene by Sandie, the Brazilian girl who receives the brooch in the end. No matter how you want to try and argue it, Lupin is clearly ARSENE Lupin III, otherwise one would assume creator and director of that film, Monkey Punch, would have changed that.


 * This article's name should be reverted back to "Lupin the 3rd" for the reasons already mentioned. - 85.210.11.39 22:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

lupins jacket
the picturs of lupin should have the jacket red. thats the way monkey punch-sensai intended it


 * I believe the reason it was green in the original series was because red paint was expensive in Japan (at the time) and used sparingly. However, this may be debatable since his jacket was red in both the 1969 pilot film and the Shin Lupin series (1977 - 80).


 * Maybe they started to use red because Lupin started to become popular by that time, and the pilot might've had a bigger budget. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.206.68.5 (talk) 05:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

nationality
Daisuke Jigen is japanese.--Drachen 21:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Can you provide a source? I'm tired of everybody changing around who is what nationality without sources. - furrykef (Talk at me) 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

It is so stated in the first TV series. If I find the specific reference I'll return with the info.

I thought Jigen was on the run from Chicago. The name "Daisuke Jigen" isn't a real Japanese name anyway, its supposed to be a cover up. BethEnd 17:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to say what Jigen's true nationality is. Of course in 'Lupin III: Episode 0, First Contact' he is working for the mafia.

The only characters confirmed to be truely Japanese are Goemon and Zenigata.


 * I have been told that there was an episode of either Lupin III Part 3 or Shin Lupin III (Red Jacket) that involved an old World War II veteran living on an island. Lupin wants to know of a secret this man is keeping but he still suspects the war may be going on.  Therefore, he will only trust Goemon and Lupin since he says Goemon is obviously Japanese and Lupin is half Japanese.  It is generally believed that Jigen is an American, though that is still not definite.

In Lupin III series 1 episode 5, Lupin, while trying to hide his identity from the newly met Goemon, says that he is a talent coordinator and that Jigen is a man from America who wished to test his skills on a samurai. The story is obviously bunk as Lupin is making it up as part of a disguise. However, it does suggest that Jigen should look American, otherwise Lupin would expect the ruse to fall through immediately. (It eventually does fall through, but that is because Goemon knows Lupin by his inability to keep his nose out of other people's affairs, nothing on Jigen's part.)

If he is from Japan how the heck is he related to the real Arsene Lupin?


 * in the Lupin the 3rd official web site:


 * Lupin: Age obscurity - Nationality unknown
 * Jigen: Age obscurity - Nationality Japan
 * Goemon: Age obscurity - Nationality Japan
 * Fujiko: Age obscurity - Nationality Japan
 * Zenigata: Age obscurity - Nationality Japan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.182.78.254 (talk) 08:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I seem to recall reading somewhere that he has a French father (Lupin II) and a Japanese mother. Couldn't say where, though, so it's not exactly the sort of thing you can stick in the article itself. However, from backstory brought up in several Lupin III Series 1 episodes, Lupin II apparently spent a lot of time in Japan, so it's not unreasonable that he could have married a Japanese lady. (In Series 1 episode 13, "Beware the Time Machine," Lupin claims to have a Japanese male ancestor who looks just like him and is marrying a French girl with the Lupin surname, but that is solely to trick the time traveller.) --Robotech_Master 03:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Music
Would it be useful to add information about the music in the show? I always thought it played a significant role in setting the tone of each scene. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by OnionRingOfDoom (talk • contribs).

Parodies section cleanup
I'm proposing that Parodies be renamed for Parodies & References and only has trivia that directly references the anime and manga. Two of the listings are subjective at best; Batman: The Animated Series and part of Cowboy Bebop. --293.xx.xxx.xx 01:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The part about Cowboy Bebop isn't subjective. The director Shinichiro Watanabe had clearly stated that Lupin III was an influence on the show.


 * Citations please. --293.xx.xxx.xx 09:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Taken from: http://www.ex.org/5.4/09-feature_watanabe1.html. "For example, the staff asked me "Oh, so Spike is like Lupin." The easiest answer is, of course, "Yes," but that's not entirely true. The moment I say, "No it's original and new," however, they don't know what to do."  There are other statements but that was the easiest to find.  It's also pretty common knowledge that he is a reputed Lupin fan and the similarities between the characters is quite obvious.
 * You pretty much shot your own arguement with that statement. Interprited, it can imply that Shinichiro Watanabe denies it's a direct reference to Lupin.--293.xx.xxx.xx 03:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No I didn't unless you interpret his statement to mean something completely different than what he meant. He clearly states that Spike is like Lupin but obviously different in some respects.  The point of his statement is that while Spike is influenced by Lupin he is not an exact Lupin clone, as he is different in many ways, which is the point he was trying to drive home  Secondly, he has in other statements said that Lupin is an influence on him and like I said he is a reputed fan of the series.  If you don't want to believe it that's fine, but your opinion is quite wrong, considering I have actually talked to him in person about this when he appeared in Houston a couple of years back.  Send him a letter or email some time and ask him about it.


 * How about signing your comments, huh? With the two dashes and the four tildes that Wikipedia recommends?


 * Anyhow, I agree that the quote is enough evidence that, if Spike isn't intended to be a complete Lupin clone, he is at least influenced by him--if "Spike is like Lupin" is not entirely true, that means it is partly true. --Robotech_Master 03:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * For my part, I don't feel that the Batman reference is subjective, either. How many great clocktower fights had there been in animation prior to Castle of Cagliostro? And yet, after it, we have both the Batman Animated appearance (also noteworthy because Cagliostro's studio, TMS, did do some Batman work, and this commonly leads fans to mistakenly assume they did that episode too), and we have the similar fight in The Great Mouse Detective, which isn't mentioned in this section yet but is in the Castle of Cagliostro write-up. And the correspondences are even more similar than they seem from the writeup here; look here and here (the latter link including another Cagliostro reference from Mask of the Phantasm which I'm tempted to add). --Robotech_Master 14:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

So whats stopping others from making such assumptions in the future? "Oh, XXXX anime has a character with a Green Jacket, ergo, it's a reference to Lupin!!" The Batman one suffers from only a studio connection, and the fact the scene mimics the scene in question, not directly references it. Cowboy Bebop suffers in one aspect because the character in question doesn't act like Lupin, rather the opposite (Not Spike, let's get that one straight). I can see the Fullmetal Alchemist one and the others, but these two are questionable at best. --293.xx.xxx.xx 03:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It really doesn't matter the way he acts as I have said Shinichiro Watanabe has stated that Lupin is an influence on him and on that show. Whether you want to believe that or not doesn't really matter, frankly.  And what next?  Are you going to try to claim that Nabeshin from Excel Saga is also not a Lupin III influenced character? Hahaha. --(that person who doesn't sign his posts)


 * In animation, a scene drawn to mimic a particular scene arguably is a direct reference. Every frame, every angle is planned. A character wearing a similar jacket is one thing--but if one movie's scene copies a scene out of another shot for shot, with identical framing and character actions, it had to be intentionally planned that way. --Robotech_Master 04:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Your arguement is about as valid as Creationalism. Full of holes, yet staunchly defended as fact. I think putting in the references and putting up citation tags is in order. --293.xx.xxx.xx 21:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

In the FLCL reference, one of the episodes has Naota's dad talking about his green jacket, and he mentions Castle of Cagliostro. If I can get the exact episode and refernce should we add it in? Kage-Lupus 09:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

In an episode of Genshiken (i dunno which), there is a sand castle version of the Castle of Cagliostro built. Don't have the time to chase this up, but does anyone know of this reference? [anonymous]

Lupin III mystery
I have heard from one of the Lupin III fanclub in Yahoo that Fujiko is actually Lupin's mother. This could explain why they could never have sex (because of sodomy), but I just want to know if anyone can verify this. --Dooly00000 10:17, 15 June 2006 UTC


 * You mean incest, not sodomy. This sounds entirely implausible to me, though. If this were the case, Lupin wouldn't be trying to get in her pants in the first place anyway, right? And aren't Lupin and Fujiko supposed to be near the same age, anyway? - furrykef (Talk at me) 12:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Fujiko is NOT Lupin's mother. There is a shortly lived manga Monkey Punch wrote called 'Lupin the Kid'. The main character is a boy thief who is trained by Fujiko. He claims he is the son of her and Lupin. He also appears on occassion in 'Shin Lupin III'.

Lupin and Cowboy Bebop
Since there's some "edit war"-like behaviour on the topic of Lupin's influence on Cowboy Bebop, here are some links that make the comparison:


 * IMDB
 * Anime on DVD
 * EX.org
 * EX.org
 * SciFi.com
 * Anime-Planet
 * Animetric
 * The X-bridge

Please, feel free to peruse and use them as sources.--Nohansen 15:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Is there a reason that Lupin's character page is deleted while everyone else's is intact? These wiki deleting zombies get really old, really fast.

Lupin's character page has been deleted
Just FYI, User:Centrx has deleted Arsène Lupin III citing that it is "Likely copyvio, no reliable sources". You all probably want to go talk to him about that, since, although I have no idea about copyvio, I'm sure there are reliable sources on Lupin and he's certainly notable. Axem Titanium 00:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * He has his talk page protected so I can't say anything to him, but that was a good page with good information, and I don't think any of it was copyright violation. I don't know what why he deleted it but I sure would like to find out —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.82.69 (talk) 06:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Shouldn't the article be tagged for improvement rather than deleted, especially as it links to a rather large selection of articles? What about a request for undeletion if his talk page is not accessible? 71.76.218.40 03:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I undeleted the page now, and I should have done it sooner. I don't think the deletion was reasonable and I'm going to try to sort the matter out with Centrx. - furrykef (Talk at me) 03:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe the matter has been sorted out now and the article is going to stay. Centrx thought that the article was illegally copied from another source, but it turned out that it was simply copied from this article. - furrykef (Talk at me) 23:23, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to Block 293.xx.xxx.xx From Editing Lupin III
This user does nothing to this article but come in to remove the OBVIOUS references from Bleach and Cowboy Bebop to Lupin III. I don't know if he has some sort of grudge or personal problem with that fact. I mean, how is it "debatable" that the outfit in this image is not EXACTLY the same, piece for piece, with Lupin's 2nd series outfit?

I don't know what issue he takes with those facts, but he keeps coming back and deleting them and has done so on numerous occasions. If it's a possibility, I suggest he be blocked from editing this article.


 * Well, this is not the sort of behavior that we "block" people for. I sympathize with your cause, but you also need to have a sense of perspective about this. Calling the removal of the image "vandalism" will not get support for your cause. I think what 293.xx.xxx.xx is concerned about is that there's no use in keeping debatable "homages" around when there are plenty more that are more certain. I agree: the list is too long. You shouldn't take it personally if it happens to be your contribution, or something about your favorite anime/manga, that gets the axe. I must say the "Shinji Hirako" image does resemble Lupin, though, and I think the image should stay unless we can find an even more obvious reference. - furrykef (Talk at me) 00:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Drastic Changes to the Refrences Section
Before someone does such drastic changes to that section, they need to discuss it here. Those changes are not necessary. That section is very appropriate and the only reason that person removed it is because they have a personal vendetta against the Cowboy Bebop and Bleach references for some reason, which is very childish. They need to come here and prove how the outfit Shinji Hirako wears in the picture is not piece for piece the same as Lupin's 2nd TV series outfit, and how that could not possibly be anything but an undisputable homage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.82.69 (talk) 15:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I agree Bebop has some similarities to Lupin. I even gave some links that make the comparison in the above "Lupin and Cowboy Bebop" editors could cite as sources. But 293.xx.xxx.xx doesn't have to prove it's not an homage. The editor who writes the comparison must prove it is. By citing a reliable source that makes the comparison, be it a reviewer or the series creator himself.--Nohansen 15:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Many of the homages are visual homages! It is extremely difficult to find direct quotes to support it. We are all logical enough to look at the picture of the villain from Sympathy for the Devil in Cowboy Bebop or Shinji Hirako's outfit in the picture that's in the article and say "well, how many other characters in anime history wear the exact same outfit as Lupin, piece for piece, without specifically being a direct homage?" I mean, it's simple logic. Of all the color schemes the animators could choose from, they picked the one that is piece for piece the same as Lupin's outfit right down to the color of the belt? That is a plain and obvious homage!


 * Citing sources. Cite either an artist interview mentioning the homage, a reviewer mentioning it, or it being pointed out in a DVD commentary, and i'll stop editing it out. Also, please see What Wikipedia is not, Featured article criteria, and most important Manual of Style.--293.xx.xxx.xx 19:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How can you not see that one character wearing an outfit piece for piece exactly the same is not an homage? Do you have something personal against Cowboy Bebop and Bleach making references to Lupin? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.82.69 (talk) 01:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Source creditable works that mention it, or it risks being deleted. Which I did delete because it turned into a fancruft nightmare rife with weasel words and cruft.--293.xx.xxx.xx 23:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * These are references IN THE SHOWS, which means people will read the reference, and if they want to check it, they can go and see what the reference is about. I'll tell you what your issue is, though. You think that Bleach and Cowboy Bebop are way, way better than Lupin the 3rd and there is no way on Earth that these two shows would ever stoop as low as referencing Lupin, right? Well, sir, that is not the case. Tell me right now, just sit here and tell me how one character wearing the EXACT outfit, and I mean piece for piece the same, is not an homage? Are people not smart enough to be able to look at the picture and say "hmm...this happens to be an homage because it's the EXACT SAME OUTFIT." You're not going to find an animator or a director saying "oh, yes, I chose that outfit because I wanted to reference Lupin." They expected people to be smart enough to figure it out on their own, especially since Lupin is such a huge icon in Japan.


 * How do I know this? It's because originally you would ignore every other reference but would delete the Cowboy Bebop and Bleach one specifically, even though those are the most easily verifiable ones. Then when you saw it wasn't working, you said that the whole section is a list and it's supposed to be paragraphs, and so you deleted all the information and replaced it with a useless paragraph that says "this and this show pays homage to Lupin" without even stating how or in what way the reference was made. Why? Because you hardly cared, and even when you did that you did not include Cowboy Bebop or Bleach in the list of shows that referenced Lupin. And now, after I went back and EXPANDED the article to include information about what references were made and in what way, your excuse about this being a list didn't work anymore, so you're claiming this whole "weasel word" thing. I don't see why you're bothering to contribute information to a show you don't even like. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.82.69 (talk) 03:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Cite sources, or it risks being deleted. It wasn't fulfilled. Homages via clothing changes is not creditable unless the creators or the director mentions it in a verifiable interview or article thru a legit third party source. Citing sources.--293.xx.xxx.xx 04:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Listen...you just proved my above point. You will NOT find animators stating that stuff they worked on are homages because THEY EXPECT people to know about it. Lupin is ICONIC in Japan. When animators put something as obvious as dressing a character in clothes that matches Lupin's SIGNATURE outfit PIECE FOR PIECE, COLOR FOR COLOR, from the neck down to the shoes, that is AN HOMAGE that everyone but you accepts. The facts are: you don't like Lupin. You don't like the fact that Shinichiro Watanabe references other anime in his anime (apparently you have problems with homages in Samurai Champloo, as well). Accept the fact that this will be how it is and leave it alone. Oh, and what you claim to be "fancruft"? How is it? The paragraphs say what was referenced, how it was referenced, and where it was referenced, sometimes it INCLUDES THE EPISODE AND VOLUME NUMBER, which when you go back and erase the EXPANDED information, you just take it out completely and don't even bother to add it again, proving that you don't care for article and you just have a grudge against Lupin the 3rd being popular —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.82.69 (talk) 05:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Either prove the info, or don't put it in at all. If you can't, then I have every right to delete it. It's that simple. I've given you the appropiate pages to look into. Follow the rules. --293.xx.xxx.xx 11:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Your lack of response to all the other issues I raised above says a lot, but, would you be so kind as to tell me what words in the paragraphs are "fancruft" and "weasel words" so that I may fix them? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.82.69 (talk) 15:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Not after your comment on the Anime and Manga talkpage, so consider my bluntness below to be my response.


 * I've tagged the items with the appropiate tags. Some need exact verification, others require more through verification. The images need sources where it explicitly states the homages are Lupin related. Images alone do not constitute "proof." --293.xx.xxx.xx 00:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Must we?
Must we even say he is the grand son of Arsène? Its horrid to have such a great piece of history linked with this.... Horrid piece of... Cartoon.... Meh. A true disgrace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nokom (talk • contribs) 01:48, 7 April 2007


 * Wikipedia is a neutral source of information. If it is a critical element to understanding who the main character is (which it is), then it must be reported. Whether or not you like the story (or the series itself) is immaterial; it is our duty to report the story as it is. - furrykef (Talk at me) 02:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand. I don't mean to sound like a butt, I really don't :) I just don't like Lupin III. Hes just not like Arsène. And I feel, he is somewhat embaresing. But if you like it, thats fine ;)


 * How is he not like Arsène Lupin? He's a gentleman thief and a ladies' man...have you even seen Hayao Miyazaki's Castle of Cagliostro? -_-

He is... Just not. Hes certainly no gentleman like Lupin. Hes not even from France.


 * You really should be signing your comments, you know. Use two hyphens followed by four tildes at the end of your statement.


 * And this really isn't the place to argue over whether Lupin III is or isn't like Arsène Lupin, so I won't go into it in depth (though I'll happily meet you in some other forum for a lengthy debate). But suffice it to say that the character has not always been as he is in the recent shows. In the 1971-2 TV series, he bore a much closer resemblance to the original Arsène. Not identical by any means, but then, people are a product of their times. --Robotech_Master 01:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

That's not it for Lupin references in that show, however!
I was asked to make some comments on the current reversions. The above line looks very "fancrufty" and is not at all encyclopedic. It needs re-writing something like "Other references to Lupin include, ..." CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 08:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Miyazaki last non-movies work? Wrong!
AFAIK, old good Hayao stopped his career as a TV shows director with Sherlock Hound, not with the ep 155 of lupin III; this leads me to consider how good the sources for other facts could actually be... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.84.115.123 (talk) 22:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

GENEON QUESTION
did geneon dub the entire series in english or only up to episode 70? —Preceding unsigned comment added by99.249.163.238 (talk) 22:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Geneon did not dub the entire series, they only released 15 volumes. --AutoGyro (talk) 19:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Geneon dubbed and released 79 episodes of the Red Jacket series. According to Richard Epcar, they had actually dubbed somewhere around 120 episodes. Why these were never released on DVD if this is true is unknown. Even if production was incomplete on all of them, by the time the final DVD was released, they easily could have finished production on up to episode 110 or so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.72.63 (talk) 03:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Mangled sentence

 * Masaaki Osumi (a former director, from Lupin III The pilot film to the TV series first half) refused a demand to "want you to do it for younger audiences" from the TV station which suffered from a low audience rating and left it.

This sentence could use some editing, but I'm not even sure what it's trying to say! --71.29.181.12 04:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Lupin III Third Opinion
The issue at hand is what constitutes Verifiability in the case of other works mentioning Lupin III.

User:68.43.82.69 readded added this text today:


 * Other series that contain Lupin references in one form or the other include Crayon Shin Chan (where the character of Shinnosuke claims to be Lupin the 4th),Cutie Honey (where, in the manga, the character Seiji says "Heh, I guess they think they're Lupin III now!"), Gintama (via Gintoki's line "Guys like Lupin always wore the same jacket"), and Midori Days (in which Sakisaka Hisashi finds he missing master copy of the old Lupin III background music during an event taking place in the 4th Volume of the manga).

....after I deleted this text after 2 months of nobody citing any reasonable sources that I asked for.


 * Other series that contain Lupin references in one form or the other include Case Closed, Crayon Shin Chan (where the character of Shinnosuke claims to be Lupin the 4th), Cutie Honey (where, in the manga, the character Seiji says "Heh, I guess they think they're Lupin III now!"),Gintama (via Gintoki's line "Guys like Lupin always wore the same jacket"), Great Teacher Onizuka, Midori Days (in which Sakisaka Hisashi finds he missing master copy of the old Lupin III background music during an event taking place in the 4th Volume of the manga), Otaku no Video, and Yakitate Japan.

Another user, User:146.9.13.112, readded the unsourced info (sans citation marks) after I deleted the above which I then deleted and warned the user to read the verifiability page.

Both 68.43.82.69 and 146.9.13.112 claim that the highlighted parentheses in Bold constitute references:


 * Other series that contain Lupin references in one form or the other include Crayon Shin Chan (where the character of Shinnosuke claims to be Lupin the 4th),Cutie Honey (where, in the manga, the character Seiji says "Heh, I guess they think they're Lupin III now!"), Gintama (via Gintoki's line "Guys like Lupin always wore the same jacket"), and Midori Days (in which Sakisaka Hisashi finds he missing master copy of the old Lupin III background music during an event taking place in the 4th Volume of the manga).

My request is that 68.43.82.69 and 146.9.13.112 (or perhaps another user) provide the relevant Manga Volumes and Anime Episode Numbers to support each claim. I feel that the issue has now reached an impasse after a cooling off period, and I don't wish to start another 3RR war again.

My query is; what is an acceptable way to reference the nods; quotes and comments without the material source to back it up, or quotes and comments with the material source to back it up?--293.xx.xxx.xx 05:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * How come you missed the line "during an event taking place in the 4th Volume of the manga"? Is that not a reference?


 * "My request is that 68.43.82.69 and 146.9.13.112 (or perhaps another user) provide the relevant Manga Volumes and Anime Episode Numbers to support each claim." We did that, so could you please explain why you went back again and deleted it? Are you going to answer, or will you just ignore this again?

-- And it's now listed at Third opinion.--293.xx.xxx.xx 05:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

My opinion: The parentheticals are not sufficient, per the guideline Citing sources. The "occasional exceptions" mentioned in the guideline header do not apply here, since there is no way that including these statements without sources improves Wikipedia. 293.xx.xxx.xx is correct in removing the unsourced statements, and the various anons should only re-add them when they can provide full citations. Anomie 14:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Does 293.xx.xxx.xx hate Lupin? And why is the page protected?
I wonder if 293.xx.xxx.xx hates Lupin III. People went back and added the episode numbers, and the volume number for the Midori Days manga has always been there, yet he keeps on deleting it.

Could you please explain how any of these are not properly sourced? It says the series and the episode number just like all the other ones. Do you hate Lupin that much?

"In Midori Days, Sakisaka Hisashi finds the missing master copy of the old Lupin III background music during an event taking place in the 4th Volume of the manga. In Crayon Shin Chan episode 440, Shinnosuke claims to be Lupin the 4th. Also, in episode 31 of the Great Teacher Onizuka anime, Onizuka, disguised, cheats by using magnets while playing on a Lupin IV Pachinko machine as an effort to raise money for a field trip he promised the 3rd year students but cannot afford. There are several Lupin III Pachinko machines found in Japan." 68.43.82.69 13:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC) 68.43.82.69

Creation of a Lupin III Work Group?
Would anyone be interested in creating/joining a Lupin III work group? There is much to do, such as adding more information to the main article, movie, TV special, TV series and video game pages, Monkey Punch's page, character pages, and Yuji Ohno's page. Let's not forget the manga pages, too! --AutoGyro 12:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I might be. Copied to WT:ANIME.--Nohansen 21:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If anyone else is still interested, I would definitely join in. —TigerK 69 07:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

List of Shin Lupin III episodes is a featured list candidate
List of Shin Lupin III episodes has been nominated for a featured list. Go here if you would like to support: Featured list candidates/List of Shin Lupin III episodes. --AutoGyro 15:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Major Edits Complete
The major edits to improve this article are now complete. Minor edits are probably still needed. What does everyone think of how the article has turned out? I think with a few more minor tweaks, it will be ready for a GA or even an FA nomination :) --AutoGyro 02:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Lupin in Pop Culture Section Removed, Placed Here for Reference
The Lupin in Pop Culture section, while it contains some nice information, is not very encyclopedic in nature and does not add to the article. Encyclopedic elements were incorporated into other sections of the article. I will place it here for reference:

Anime series and manga
Shinichi Watanabe, who directed the 1999 television special Fujiko's Unlucky Days (released in the United States as The Columbus Files) has jokingly claimed that Lupin the III stole his idea of wearing the iconic pastel colors of his alter ego Nabeshin from Excel Saga, and is cosplaying as him.

In Midori Days, Sakisaka Hisashi finds the missing master copy of the old Lupin III background music during an event taking place in the 4th Volume of the manga. In Crayon Shin Chan episode 440, Shinnosuke claims to be Lupin the 4th. Also, in episode 31 of theGreat Teacher Onizuka anime, Onizuka, disguised, cheats by using magnets while playing on a Lupin IV Pachinko machine as an effort to raise money for a field trip he promised the 3rd year students but cannot afford. There are several Lupin III Pachinko machines found in Japan.

In the comedy series, Azumanga Daioh, the character Tomo Takino has a desire to be like Fujiko, to the point she even attempts to grow her hair out for a sexy look. Failing that, she briefly decides on a career in Interpol, the agency for which Zenigata works.

References to Goemon's sword Zentetsuken are found in Love Hina and the xxxHolic manga. In xxxHOLiC volume one, Yuko paints the word "Zentetsuken" onto a baseball bat and, after using it to slice a laptop in half, mutters, "Once again I cut a worthless object." The same line, used many times by Goemon, is also spoken by the character of Motoko Aoyama in the anime Love Hina.

The director of Cowboy Bebop, Shinichiro Watanabe, revealed during an interview with Newtype Japan that he was heavily influenced by Lupin III, especially with the work of director Masaaki Osumi on the first TV series.

In episode 1 of Excel Saga, an altered version of the Castle of Cagliostro poster is seen on the manga artist's wall. Also, the beginning of episode 12 features series creator Rikdo Koshi dressed up as Zenigata and a set of rings that parodies the ones from Castle of Cagliostro

In FLCL, in the episode Brittle Bullet, Kamon, dressed as Lupin, jumps out of his clothes, leaving his boxers on, and attempts to dive and land in between Haruko's legs. Haruko, wearing nothing but a towel, foils him by launching a boxing glove, attached to a spring, from in between her legs, knocking Kamon out. Later, the trademark black title screen appears, at first types out a title (trans. Forever the Bullet of Love and the Plot), but the title gets trashed for another (ブラブレtrans. Bura Bure). All this is a homage to the title sequence of the second Lupin series. In English dub, Kamon comments that his costume is based one Lupin's look from the second TV series (with a red jacket), and asks Naota if he prefers the green "Castle of Cagliostro style" jacket.

Shinichi Watanabe has jokingly claimed that Lupin the III stole his idea of wearing the iconic pastel colors of his alter ego Nabeshin from Excel Saga, and is cosplaying as him. Watanabe directed the 1999 TV special Fujiko's Unlucky Days, which was released in the United States as The Columbus Files.

Music
Lupin has made his way into popular American music via rapper Kanye West's single "Touch the Sky", in which Lupe Fiasco says "Yes, yes, yes, guess who's on third? Lupe steal like Lupin the Third." The line is a word play on baseball player 'stealing' a base much like Lupin was a thief.

Recurring themes and References and homage
In order to comply with the 4th criteria of a Featured Article, the Recurring themes and References and homage sections will now be archived here for reference.

Recurring themes
Lupin and Zenigata share what could be best described as a symbiotic relationship in the series. Often Lupin has an opportunity to kill Zenigata, which he always passes up. As an example, once Lupin nearly ran over Zenigata with a race car, but made it jump over him after Zenigata ducked down. Because of this generosity (and for another reason; see below), Zenigata refuses to kill Lupin. This seemingly gentlemen's agreement is acknowledged by both parties. Zenigata is only interested in capturing Lupin, not killing him. When Lupin tricked the world by getting "killed" in an episode, Zenigata was openly crying as he considered this a tragedy even for a criminal.

Zenigata cannot stand going without chasing Lupin for an extended period. For instance, Zenigata arrested Lupin in the fourth episode of the first TV series (which was based on the second chapter of the manga), and Zenigata nervously waited a year for Lupin to escape so the chase could continue. Lupin, deciding to toy with him, waited until he was to be led to the electric chair to escape. Zenigata often finds himself arresting more dangerous criminals, after Lupin and his gang thwart them. Logically, this would give Zenigata an impressive performance record, which would explain why he is still allowed to pursue Lupin despite his lack of success in capturing the thief.

In the various movies and OVAs, Zenigata will often join in full alliance with Lupin's gang against some menace deemed more dangerous, such as the Count in The Castle of Cagliostro or the terrorist group in Orders to Assassinate Lupin. After the day is won, Zenigata will show his gratitude by allowing the gang a few minutes head start before he begins chasing them again.

Another recurring theme is the appearance of descendants of famous historical and literary figures. For example, Sherlock Holmes the Third, and Lawrence of Arabiathe Third.

Jigen seemed to be fated to lead a doomed love life. Almost all of the women he ever got involved with either do not love him, betrayed him, were killed, or were unable to have a workable relationship. This explains why Jigen seemed very much cynical on Lupin's many advances to women, especially with Fujiko.

Lupin and his cohorts are known to be able to drive and utilize any vehicle; cars, motorcycles, airplanes, and pretty much any other mode of transport. Of the many cars they drive, a few were consistently used; 1929 type 38/250 model SSK Mercedes-Benz, Mini Cooper, and Fiat 500. A yellow Fiat features prominently in The Castle of Cagliostro and later in The Fuma Conspiracy.

Another recurring theme is that in every television special and feature film, and most of the episodes of the three television series there is a secondary female lead in the style of Bond girls in James Bond movies.

References and homage
Throughout the history of the franchise, Lupin III alludes to the adventures of his grandfather, Arsène Lupin, from time to time. Even The Castle of Cagliostrogets its title from the novel La Comtesse de Cagliostro (The Countess of Cagliostro).

Many episodes of the second television series feature references and homage to other phenomenon that were popular during the time the series was in production. In episode 15, for example, Lupin goes up against the descendants of several detectives, including Sherlock Holmes's grandson, Holmes III. The character of Holmes III also appears in episode 97 of the 2nd TV series, but he is different from the Holmes III that appeared in episode 15. The episode also contains parodies of other famous characters such as Napoleon Zero(Napoleon I), James Dobon (James Bond), and Rasputan (Rasputin).

Episode 20 features a scene with the villain character of Hatler playing with the globe, which is a parody of The Great Dictator. In episode 52, titled Emmanuelle Is an Angel's Whisper, the character Emmanuelle Poirot is the granddaughter of Hercule Poirot, and the entire episode is a tribute to the first Emmanuelle movie. Another tribute to a movie took place in episode 18, titled "Black Panther," which takes on the Pink Panther, where the character Inspector Conaiseau is a parody ofInspector Clouseau and the character of Hakito parodies Cato Fong.

In episode 58, The Border Is the Face of Farewell, contains an homage to The Third Man, while episode 62, The Sound of the Devil's Bells Calls Lupin, is an homage to The Prisoner. American TV series Columbo is parodied during episode 72, The Skateboard Murder Mystery. American TV series are parodied again in episode 78, Diamonds Gleam in a Robot's Eye, which parodies The F.B.I..

In episode 94, Lupin Vs. Superman, the main characters are featured in their Superman-like costumes, and the episode also parodies the title character of McCloud through the character of Inspector McCleed.

Another Superman-related parody is found in the final episode of the second television series. In episode 155 Farewell My Beloved Lupin, written and directed by Hayao Miyazaki, contains an homage to the jewel stealing robot found in one of the early Superman cartoons. A slightly revised model of the robot returns later in Hayao Miyazaki's Castle in the Sky.

The second television series also pays homage to other anime of the same time. Episode 101, Versailles Burned with Love, pays homage to the anime The Rose of Versailles. That particular episode was based on a viewer's idea as part of the 100th episode celebration of the series.

Good Article Review - Pass
This is without a doubt a good article. Nothing I can really add to it pertaining to the Good Article Criterion, as it already surpasses them. Not quite FA, as the FAC consensus identified, but definitely a good article. NSR 77 T C  21:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Lupin movies and specials
The Lupin movies need an uniform naming scheme. We have the ones were they're named as part of the Lupin series (Dead or Alive (Lupin the 3rd)), the complete title ones (Lupin III: Legend of the Gold of Babylon) and the "I don't know what they are until I read the article" ones (Episode 0: First Contact).

Personally, I prefer the complete title. It tells you right out what the article is about and, also, it is the official title. What do you think?--Nohansen22:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and we have another problem. Some articles use Lupin III, others Lupin the 3rd. Is there no consensus?--Nohansen 22:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * A debate was done long ago about the naming of the main article, and the consensus was to have the name be "Lupin III". I personally prefer the name Lupin the 3rd because that is the name on all of Geneon's, FUNimation's, and even Discotek's Lupin releases. As it is now, however, all the articles for the movies and TV specials need to follow whatever naming convention the main article uses. The naming for the movies and specials should follow this guideline: Lupin III: Name of the Movie/TV Special. The actual issue will be whether to use the American DVD titles of the movies/TV specials that were released on R1 DVD as the main title of the article, or should it be the translation of the original Japanese title. On that I say we should use the R1 DVD titles, since this is the English Wikipedia, and the R1 DVD titles will be the one most familiar to the people who would be looking them up. --AutoGyro 01:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The Fuma Conspirecy was a Theatrical film
The recent 20th Anniversary DVD of the Fuma Conspirecy states that it was not straight to video film, but instead was on par with the other theater releases. This needs to be changed in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.161.203.11 (talk) 19:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, according to the history of the franchise on the Lupin the 3rd encyclopedia, Fuma was released direct-to-video first, and only after did it make it to theaters. --AutoGyro (talk) 04:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Fansites? Seriously?
Hi there, just a wee query- why are there a collection of fansite links at the bottom of the page? Leaving off for the moment that it's most definitely not Wiki policy, there's no way to decide between one or another in terms of suitability, so it's nigh-on-impossible to vet them effectively for addition. There's a blanket ban on them over in the Videogames wing, since they invariably cause too much trouble, with people previously adding and deleting them at will with little in the way of discourse over their suitability. If you genuinely need to get to a fansite, Google should surely do?

Anyway, comments and suggestions please. Hyperspacey (talk) 22:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, both those sites seem to be genuinely useful, you could probably list them under a better heading. Fansite doesn't really do them justice. "Unofficial resources" or something? Hyperspacey (talk) 23:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Punch The Monkey!
I'm suprised no one has posted anything regarding the Punch The Monkey! remix/cover albums series. There are three of them in total, not including the Best Of album, and they feature some big names in Japanese music. I own only the 2nd one and some of the artists include Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra, Polysics, Yasuharu Konishi,Monday Michiru and even The Ventures. I don't think that an article has to be made for each individual album but perhaps a list of all them would be more suitable. Or maybe there is a Lupin the 3rd media article they could be integrated into? LonesomeMoon (talk) 07:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you feel they should be referenced then add them. I think they can safely go here. BTW, this page deals with the franchise in general.Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)