Talk:Lust murder

"piquerism" seems to be a questionable term, removing for now. Whilst there are a number of Google hits, many from copies of this article, the word does not appear in the New Oxford Dictionary of English, nor in Google's online dictionary or any other authorritative source I can find so far. There is also a discussion on the validity of this term at http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug03/jn.html, which states, among other things:


 * The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the Second District took issue with the purportedly expert testimony, stating that "It is now clear that the expert's qualifications were largely perjured, and that the syndrome, dubbed 'piquerism' is referenced nowhere but in a true-crime paperback."

-- The Anome 10:44, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Piquerism is a very common term used within the field by professionals both modern and historical and is in several textbooks. What idiot came up with that? Dr. Robert Keppel, et. al., use the term quite frequently in the The Journal of Offender Profiling when discussing lust murder, and he's about as qualified expert as there comes in these things. HOLY MOLY what goofballs came up with the idea it isn;t real? YIKES they are clueless. 172.129.223.71 14:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

the murder in the hunchback of notre dame
was frollo's murder of phoebus lust murder, don't you think?

Untitled
"A lust murder begins with the obsessive compulsions of the offender." This is inaccurate -- wanting to commit lust murder has nothing to do with OCD (which the words "obsessive compulsions" link to). Eilicea 21:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is absolutely true - I removed the link and changed it to simply "obsessions." 69.118.25.126 18:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Citations,anyone?```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.130.246 (talk) 15:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Not to offend whoever wrote this, but I've been doing a lot of reading about this in a serial murder class and for a research paper on why people murder children (males for lustful reasons often).

A couple of problems I see here:

This paragraph doesn't have very good flow to it. It's rather confusing and reads awkwardly.

"It has been said that a lust murder begins with the obsessions of the offender. Generally, they have a sexual obsession with their victims, and organized lust murderers may stalk their victims for weeks or months before the actual killing. It has been cited numerous times that the object of obsession is a victim who fits the fantasy criteria of the offender, as opposed to a specific person. The signature component of the crime, that which names it a lust murder, is the killer acting out their fantasies with their victims and the bodies of those victims. Lust murder is the most common feature in the criminal careers of serial killers."

Secondly, you can't just say "it has been said that" or "it has been cited numerous times that" without saying WHO is saying or citing it.

Thirdly, lust killers don't kill because of obsessions. They kill because of fantasies that involve and IVT (Ideal Victim Type). An offender that displays any kind of paraphilic behavior might be suffering from impulse control disorders or obsessive compulsive disorder, but it is not specific to lust killers. I've changed the page to reflect this and cited Ronald Holmes and Steven Holmes in the reference section.

You did mention signatures, but a signature is not "the killer acting out their fantasies with their victims...". A signature is what that offender leaves behind as his or her trademark of the crime they have commited. For example, and offender who leaves the letter "X" carved on all of his victims or takes out their eyeballs is leaving a signature. It's the physical "calling card" left behind that tells the world "I did this crime" and often allows victims to be connected to one offender. If someone wants to add the idea of signatures back into the article feel free. I might have some time later to come back and add more info on this topic in. Crjs452 (talk) 21:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

-- Hawksfan12: I think when you added your section you inadvertently deleted my citation of Holmes and Holmes so that you could use it. I have added it back to my paragraph as that is where I cited my information from. Please try to be careful not to delete other people's valid citations. Thank you.Crjs452 (talk) 06:57, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

_____

Ted Bundy and Ed Gein
While Bundy raped his victims often, he was not motivated by sex. He sought to dominate and control his victims and the sexual aspect of his murders was merely another way of having power over them. I have removed the Ted Bundy link from the bottom.

Also, Ed Gein was not motivated by sex or lust but by the desire to return his mother to life. Gein's link has been removed. GSMR (talk) 20:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Synonymity?

 * "Lust murder is synonymous with the paraphilic term erotophonophilia which is sexual arousal or gratification contingent on the death of a human being."

A paraphilia is a statement about a sexual attraction and not a sexual action as far as I know. Maybe the wording should be changed to "affiliated" or something similar. Also, can terms be paraphilic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.173.157.109 (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, why the devil is anyone suggesting that those are synonyms? We still do not have thought crimes in most nations for a *reason*. As far as I'm concerned it's outrageous to even suggest that such a thing is synonymous and it does not seem to be in the spirit of wikipedia at all. Mentioning that there might be a relation (if you can provide a source to such a relation) however would be acceptable in my book. However if anyone find information that's usable as a source about it being possible to have this kink without genuinely acting on it (just doing snuff play for instance instead of real murder) then that should probably also be mentioned. With regards from someone with other kinks that have been judged as perverse by certain close minded individuals in the past Luredreier (talk) 20:28, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

@Flyer22 Frozen This is my issue with the current wording. Lust murder is by definition not synonymous with erotophonphilia. If you have a better solution for how to correct it than I came up with, change it to that. The current phrasing is unacceptable due to its inaccuracy.Miripog (talk) 19:01, 28 November 2020 (UTC)Miripog

Xenia Onatopp
I'd propose removing the link to Xenia, as all others in the list are real, historical persons. Perhaps a link to the Xenia page under "pop culture" heading?" Not making any changes at this time, as I'm new to editing. Need to get more smarts before I start editing. 72.227.74.219 (talk) 22:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)A Guy Named Dan

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List of lust murderes
The list is entirely unsourced, meaning that each entry is simply some editor's opinion that the person is a "lust murderer". The list has to go unless someone can add sources. I tagged the section as unreferenced and will give it a couple of weeks before removing the section. Sundayclose (talk) 03:00, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

New/different name?
Is "Lust Murder" even the best translation for the term Lustmord (originally from von Krafft-Ebbing)? "Lust" in German means desire but in a generalized sense, *not* specifically in reference to sexual or romantic desire. To me it should be more like "Eroticized Murder" (a little long and cumbersome I know), or even something that refers to sexual gratification from the fantasy or act of committing murder (but the act being devoid of any actual sexualized content; this is perhaps the second definition mentioned, maybe they need to be differentiated?).Historian932 (talk) 12:42, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Per WP:Common name, we go by the common name for the topic, as established by the preponderance of WP:Reliable sources. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:27, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Vandalized preview?
At the very end of the preview of the link to this page (like the one on the page for autassassinophilia) it says "YO Why bro". I don't know how to fix it since it doesn't say that anywhere else on this page? Slurpcat (talk) 23:28, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * after a purge. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 23:19, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Erotophonophilia
In terms of what the elements of the word actually mean, erotophonophilia ought to mean "sexual arousal at someone saying sexy things". Why it should have the meaning of someone being sexually aroused by the imminent prospect of someone else's death, is beyond my powers of comprehension. What a stupid word! If anything, the word ought logically to be thanatophilia: sexual arousal by death. Nuttyskin (talk) 03:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)