Talk:Lutheran Church - International

Comments
Comments about the history, mission and ministries of the International Lutheran Fellowship are welcome. Dr. Robert Hotes 16:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC) Robert W. Hotes, CEAP, LMHC, SPHR.

Talk: Personal Ordinariate
Apart from the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church, the article should really consider verifying whether groups such as the International Lutheran Fellowship have ever sought a similar canonical structure to the proposed personal ordinariates. ADM (talk) 18:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a friend who is a priest in the ILF, and he assures me that the ILF does not and never has had any interest at all in entering the Roman Catholic Church in any form. gladfelteri (talk) 07:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk: ELCA Relationship
In the original entry on this "fellowship", Robert William Hotes stated that the ILF had been recognized by major Lutheran bodies. Specific reference was made to a 2007 worldbook of the Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America (ELCA). No such worldbook can be identified. The FY2007 ELCA report contains no mention of the ILF. ELCA synod officials have had no knowledge of the ILF, judging from personal discussions. At this time, it appears that none of the major Lutheran organizations in the US, such as the ELCA, Wisconsin Synod, or Missouri Synod, have any actual links to or recognition of the ILF. However, web searches would suggest that Hotes himself may have personal relationships to members of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Comment: Research would prove this anonymous comment to be incorrect except that there is no direct connection intended with any of these bodies.

North Dakota corporation records do in fact show that the ILF was incorporated in 1967. Who incorporated it and what the actual history has been for 1967-2007 is a mystery. It is noteworthy that Hotes also claims to be a bishop of the Southern Episcopal Church, and that he is listed as being on the faculty of the Holy Trinity College and Seminary, an unaccredited online operation that the SEC refers to as its source for ordination candidates. Under these circumstances, this entry must be regarded as suspect and largely promotional.Nilkinggary (talk) 18:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk: Edward Turnow, ILF Founder
Edward Turnow, who first incorporated the ILF in 1967, died in North Dakota in 2008 at the age of 90. His obituary in the Minot Daily News states that he was president of the ILF for 1967-1998. In 1999, Turnow received an "honorary" Doctorate of Divinity from the Holy Trinity College and Seminary (see above). It would appear that Robert Hotes took over control of this corporation at about that time, and that the honorary degree may have been payment in kind.

Correction: Robert Hotes was not a member of the ILF at this time and there is no connection between him and Pr. Turnow. This was negotiated by Tunow's successor, a former LCMS member

There appears to be no evidence of Turnow's activities with the ILF. Knowledge of these activities probably died with him. In particular, there is no evidence that Turnow used the ILF in the way it is being used today, as an alternative to mainline Lutheran associations for various alienated individuals and congregations. However, there is evidence that individuals like Art Hebbeler, ILF Secretary and manager of a small Lutheran day school in Maryland, was actively soliciting Lutheran churches to break away from organizations like ELCA back to 2006. Probably such activities go back to 1999 in one form or another. RevGoodEnough (talk) 21:46, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

'''CORRECTION: Art Hebbeler was not even a part of the ILF in 2006 or 1999. In fact, in 1999, I was not even aware the ILF existed, and was happily a seminarian on internsship in the metro DC within a large ELCA congregation. In 2006, I was still in my first ELCA parish call.''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Revbert (talk • contribs) 11:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Talk: Archbishop Robert Hotes
Those with an interest in Robert William Hotes should refer to the following link: http://www1.ben.edu/mobhome/hotes.asp. Hotes presents an apparently impressive array of credentials. A close check shows that many of these are either non-existent, mis-stated, or references to organizations apparently set up and managed by Robert O'Block through a Springfield MO address. Correction: This comment is untruthful and misleading. Hotes did supply a review to a book by O'Block but is not connected with him. He holds no credentials through O'Block at this time and does not support O'Block's organization in any way. The nature and origin of the credentials can be found through Google. All of the credentials listed are through recognized accrediting bodies, earned by examination and experience. Hotes has an extensive publications and presentations list (which would be shared on request) and has been on the faculty of three accredited universities.

Hotes has a couple of non-academic pieces in the 1983 book, and he was essentially a junior editor. One of the other editors, Jack D. Terry, had the very grandiose title of Minister of Education and Adult Ministry, First Baptist Church, Keller, Texas. The book's blurbs at the end state that Hotes is a Denny's training manager. Hotes' 1982 dissertation was on the training of heliocopter pilots. Lilbitk777 (talk) 13:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Correction: This statement is incorrect. Although junior editor at that time, Hotes had major responsibility for the project, working with the publisher. "A couple" would suggest two. A count will reveal more. It can be found on Amazon or B and N

Good points! Hotes' other co-editor was Bob W. Miller, who the book describes as a director of community college programs at North Texas State University (now the University of North Texas). Hotes has certainly promoted himself to much loftier levels! BTW, Miller is no longer with that institution. Nilkinggary (talk) 14:37, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Miller passed away decades ago. Hotes has a book in print called Organization Development in the 21st Centrury, and many presentations and articles. One would just have to check a bit.Robert Hotes (talk) 18:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Hotes' Benedictine University write-up says he graduated from St. Paul's Seminary in Canfield, Ohio. There is no such place. St. Paul Seminary is in St. Paul, Minnesota. PhilMelanchthon (talk) 02:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Dear "Phil". St. Paul's Canfield NY was operated by the Roman Catholic Church, Society of St.Paul up to the 1970's or 1980's. The Society of Saint Paul affiliated the seminary with the Catholic University in Washington D.C. Records are available at The Society of Saint Paul, Alba House, NY,NY (Staten Island). and in Rome Italy (the Society's headquarters), or through the RC Diocese of Buffalo NY. The post attacking Hotes' credentials was made by student who made a "B" in a class. None of them have to do with O'Block. The are all verifiable and current through the organizations through which they were earned. Eg: Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR), through the Certification institute of SHRM. In other words, the article you quote is slander, unintended on your part,I am sure. Seminary credentials can be checked at the Society of Saint Paul, Alba House, Staten Island,New York and/or the Catholic University of America, Washington, D.C., USA. Subsequent degrees from the University of Dallas, Irving, Texas, and the University of North Texas, Denton, Texas. The latter is a state school.

May God continue to bless you and your ministries. Keep the Faith!Robert Hotes (talk) 18:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Talk: Order of St. Francis-Lutheran
Inquiries have been made of Lutheran pastors with churches in St. Catharines, Ontario, about the activities of Larry Goodnough, OSF-L father superior, and the activites of either the OSF-L or the Franciscan Lutheran Community Mission. The following response was received:

"Dear [name deleted]:

Greetings in Christ!

My apologies for not responding sooner. This was due to illness on my part. I have spoken once with Mr. Goodnough over the phone several years ago. As well, he apparently attended our Good Friday service last year but did not speak with him at that time. I am not aware of any standing that he has in the St. Catharines community. 36 Arran Drive is actually Linden Apartment Court and is one of the less expensive residential housing locations.

I can find no record of Mr. Goodnough being a rostered clergyman of Lutheran Church Canada, to which we belong. Since the International Lutheran Church, of which he is apparently a member, is an autonomour church body, he could not be a member of Lutheran Church Canada (a sister synod of Lutheran Church Missouri Synod). Because of the language used on the website and the way it cites the confessions, I wonder how thorough a Lutheran theological education Mr. Goodnough has received.

From what I read on the website of the order and the International Lutheran Church, I could not in good conscience recommend them to anyone.

Yours in Christ, Pastor [name deleted]"

We think it's important for people like Larry to know that God's love really is something accessible to us all. Posturing may not be the best path. If he turns to his pastor with an attitude of humility, we're sure that he will find the kindness, compassion, and forgiveness that we all hope for in our lives..

BoysenberryBlues (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Many recent edits, no sources
The article has been rewritten and dramatically enlarged in the past week. That has been the work of a variety of new editors. Much of this new material concerns living people and apparently contentious issues. That makes it even more important for the assertions in the article to be verifiable with inline citations. I don't want to undo all of the recent work, but we need to bring this article up to standards promptly, otherwise it'll get "stubbed" - cut down to a minimal paragraph. Will editors here be able to work on it this weekend?  Will Beback   talk    08:35, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * There ain't any sources for this article. If there's no response in a few more days I'll stub the article.   Will Beback    talk    03:14, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Going three times...   Will Beback    talk    09:41, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Seeing no response, I'll go ahead and cut the article down. I've found two articles in newspapers that mention ILF: one is an obituary of E. Edward Tornow, and the other is a profile of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Christ in Queens, NY. Based on those two sources I'll draft a paragraph. Any future additions, especially those which mention living people, must have adequate sources.   Will Beback    talk    01:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The highly reliable website, "Pastor Zip's U.S. Lutheran Web Links" (http://www.pastorzip.org/uslutheranlinx.html) notes, in its section about Evangelical Catholic Lutheran Churches that in the 2010-2011 time frame, the "International Lutheran Fellowship" changed its name to "Lutheran Church International." Shouldn't this article reflect the new name of this Church? Gladfelteri (talk) 14:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

That the International Lutheran Fellowship has, in fact, officially changed its name to "Lutheran Church-International" is verified by its official website: http://www.lutheranchurchinternational.org. I suggest that the name of the article about the International Lutheran Fellowship be changed to its new official name to avoid confusion. Gladfelteri (talk) 14:41, 29 February 2012 (UTC)