Talk:Lutheran sacraments

Defining Sacraments
I removed the attribution to Luther defining sacraments, because the source cited is not Luther's writing. The explanation was added years later and reflects interpretation at the time and not what Luther actually wrote on the subject.

I added the historic Lutheran understanding from the Augsburg Apology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jblawson01 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Holy absolution vs. Declaration of Grace
Shark96z has noted in the article that the general confession in the beginning of the Eucharistic service is different from the holy absolution, which should be always private. This is not quite as straightforward as he implies. At least in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland gives a holy absolution as one version for the declaration of grace (See texts for the eucharistic and non-eucharistic services (p. 191, texts 7 and 9):
 * ''Jeesus sanoo:
 * ''»Ystäväni, ole rohkealla mielellä,
 * ''sinun syntisi annetaan anteeksi.»
 * ''[Hänen palvelijanaan julistan sinulle tämän synninpäästön
 * ''Isän ja (+) Pojan ja Pyhän Hengen nimeen.]

which translates as: ''Jesus says: "My friend, be with courageous mind, your sins are forgive". As his servant I declare unto you this absolution in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.'' In my experience, some priests prefer to use the holy absolution while others use a declaration of grace. And the Finnish evangelical-lutherans teach that this form of confession is indeed a full and complete confession. (eg. the official site of the "rukoilevaisuus" movement and SLEY, another Lutheran revival movement, Oulunkylä parish, Masku parish). This is also mirrored in the Augsburgian confession, which states that among the Lutheran parishes, no one is allowed to the eucharist without confession. --MPorciusCato (talk) 20:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the misunderstanding... I'm just not that familiar with the teachings of the ELCF. I am an American, so my contributions are mainly based on the teachings of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod, and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, as those three synods are the most I am familiar with (as well as the three largest in the U.S.). In my former Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod church, the "general confession" at the start of the service never granted absolution. Rather the pastor said:
 * "In the mercy of almighty God, Jesus Christ was given to die for us, and for His sake God forgives us all our sins. To those who believe in Jesus Christ He gives the power to become the children of God and bestows on them the Holy Spirit. May the Lord, who has begun this good work in us, bring it to completion in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."


 * We were, however, required to go to "Holy Absolution" (meaning private confession) before receiving the Eucharist. Not only for the first time, but I couldn't be in a "state of sin" any time, therefore I had to confess frequently. If you feel you should re-edit my recent contributions on this article, as well as "Divine Service", "Confession", and "Confession in the Lutheran Church" (as well as some others), go ahead. Thanks. Shark96z (talk) 21:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I think this is a good example of geographical variation. The practice you describe was typical in Finland in the 18th and 19th centuries and it is sometimes used among the rukoilevaisuus movement inside the ELCF. However, in that practice, the confession is communal, not private. A private confession is indeed a rather rare event in the Finnish practice. The liturgical form of the private confession has been taken actually from the public confession of a penitent, which was a practice discontinued in the late 19th century. In practice, I do not think that many pastors use the formulas in the service book, because the use of free choice of words is allowed and the purpose is not liturgy but the care of the soul. In addition, the Laestadianist movement (which, in Finland, exists inside the ECLF) actually still practices the public confession of a single penitent. --MPorciusCato (talk) 15:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

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