Talk:Lyco art

Originator of Lyco Art
As the originator of Lyco Art, I authored this entry with the best of intentions. I tried to be as neutral as possible, presenting only the facts. I apologize for any inappropriate “Link Spamming”. I made the links after a tag was placed on the article saying it was an “orphan” and called for creating links. Please, note that Lyco Art is short for Lyrical Conceptualism, an internationally recognized art idea and the subject of numerous exhibitions in museums and galleries worldwide. Google would yield hundreds of sites with a search for Lyrical Conceptualism, while many others vanished from the Internet over the years. The Internet is a very important source of information, of course. However, judging the significance of something mainly by the number of Google hits is misguided and an apparent shortcoming of the editorial policy of Wikipedia. In order to grasp the importance of Lyco art, serious researchers ought to do much more than “google”. Still, for more information on the author and lyrical conceptualism, please, see the National Gallery of Canada, the Encyclopedia of Canadian Artists of Eastern European Origin, , as well as others: , , [http;//www.federationofpoets.com/featurepaulhartal.htm], , , , , , A recent review of the author’s Postmodern Light can be found at.

If you find that the article on Lyco art has no encyclopedic merit, please delete it.

Paul Hartal
 * ''Shifting comment from to appropriate location --Muchness 19:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Deletion?
I think it might be worthwhile to keep this page if it can be improved. However, since it seems that Hartal might be the only artist who creates this type of art, it might be better to make a bio page for him and discuss lyco art as his invention on that page. A websearch yielded considerably more hits for "Paul Hartal" than for "lyco art." IrisWings 22:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Recommend Redirection to artist article
I recommend that the page be converted into a Redirect to Paul Hartal, which is an article about the artist I have created. I don't think that "Lyrical Conceptualism" or Lyco art are internationally recognized in any notable way, but the artist is notable and internationally recognized. Hu 23:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I would recommend merger over redirection. After all, his theories about art should be explained in his biography article--they're part of why he's considered noteworthy. IrisWings 01:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Lack of notability; vanity self-promotion; merge or delete
The first criterion for article inclusion or creation in Wikipedia is notability. According to editor Hu's edit summary, Lyco art is "an art movement." Well, a one-man concept listed only ten times on Google, and over half of them citing his own edits at Wikipedia, is not a movement. This article is simply about Paul Hartal and his work.

This is blatant vanity self-promotion. Any notability gained will be becaused of listings at Wikipedia, and any attention gained by it. Such a misuse of Wikipedia is forbidden here. I suggest that we accept Hartal's invitation (above) to remove it, since it is clearly not notable enough for Wikipedia. If it gets kept at all, then it should be in the Paul Hartal article. -- Fyslee 16:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If articles about Lyco art have been published in books and journals not written or owned by Hartal, it's noteworthy enough to include in his bio page. It's unfortunate that the artist wrote his own article about a concept he originated, but at least that way we can be sure the philosophy section is accurate. I don't really see this as a problem.


 * However, I think the merge was a good idea, since it fleshed out two relatively short articles. IrisWings 08:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * My comments above were based purely on Wikipedia concepts that forbid self-promotion. I have nothing against Lyco art or even Hartal as a person. I was just commenting that Wikipedia rules were being violated and needed to be enforced. Instead of forcing the issued, I felt the merge was a good solution and so I effectuated it. My brother happens to be an accomplished artist. (Just one of his pictures.) Maybe he has heard of Lyco art. -- Fyslee 21:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Merged articles
The content of the Lyco art article is now merged into the Paul Hartal article. It is not notable enough to stand on its own, but can certainly be used in the Hartal article. I hope that this will satisfy Hartal.

It should now be possible to blank this article and leave a redirect. -- Fyslee 17:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

On the Abusive and False Remarks of Fyslee
As a human being I am just like a tiny grain of star dust carried by the solar wind between galaxies. I don’t see notability as a provider of genuine happiness. Fame is elusive and relative. Mind you, most people never heard of the majority of Nobel Prize winners. And as far as I am concerned, I am famous to be unknown. In certain respects, fame is not even a desirable goal for an artist because it might influence adversely his or her original vision. Nevertheless, and in spite of all this, artists do need recognition and when they have gained it, critics are expected to acknowledge. It is not a valid excuse that they don’t find the information on the web. Wikipedia critics and editors are supposed to know that their opinions should be based on comprehensive research, searching through all communication media, and not only the Internet. In this regard, here and elsewhere, the Wikipedia critic who writes under the name Fyslee is guilty of making abusive and false ad hominem comments, character assassination, built on hasty data collection and misconstrued arguments. I believe that such a biased critic should not be a contributor to Wikipedia at all, and certainly should not write about me and my work. I hope Wikipedia editors take note of this for the sake of presenting accurate information on its pages. The note below presents an array of documented facts and explains why Lyco art, or Lyrical Conceptualism, is not only a theory but an international art trend as well.

Paul Hartal 03:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Lyco Art as a Trend
How many artists are needed for the creation of a movement? Art trends, after all, are not political parties with thousands or millions of members. The Neo-Impressionist trend of Pointillism, or Divisionism, for example, is basically associated with the name of Georges Seurat, although another French painter, Paul Signac, worked closely with Seurat on the development of Pointillism. Similarly, Neo-Plasticism, or De Stijl movement was started by Piet Mondrian, a very loose organization held together by Theo van Doesburg. Now, please open on page 151 the sixth edition of Artists/USA 1979-80, edited by Howard Jeffries, ISBN 0-912916-06-0. Here, the noted space artist Kara Szathmary  says: “When modern art is viewed as a periodic table, Cosmic Symbiosis emerges as an isotope of Paul Hartal’s element, Lyrical Conceptualism”. Kara and I collaborated and exhibited together throughout the years. His statements on his affiliation with Lyrical Conceptualism can be found in other publications as well, including the 7th edition of Artists/USA. On June 24, 1978, Le Nouveau Journal in Paris reviewed my show of “les Conceptions lyrique” at the Raymond Duncan Gallery and reported that I won the Prix de Paris. The Canadian poet Tom Konyves wrote about Lyrical Conceptualism and the foundation of the Lyrical Conceptualist Society (LCS) in The Montreal Star, July 21, 1979. The LCS also organized exhibitions, including the 1979 International Concrete Poetry exhibit held at Vehicule Art in Montreal. Artists who joined the LCS include Gertrud Nasri, Jon Roll, Bernard Re,   and Nielsen Moggens Otto. The 19th edition of Who’s Who in Art (U.K., 1980) on page 202 acknowledges that I am the originator of Lyrical Conceptualism and the founder of the LCS. In the 1990s the Tokyo Inter-Communication Center initiated a research project on Lyrical Conceptualism. Also in Japan, I have contributed to over a hundred “Brain Cell” editions produced by the Osaka artist Ryosuke Cohen. Collaboration with artists from other movements, including Conceptual Art, Mail Art, Blankism and Space Art has eventuated in the cross-fertilizing exchange of ideas. Lyrical Conceptualism is an open ended system and it is in constant flux. In 1994 “as a noted Space Artist”, I received an invitation from Space Week International Association to display my visionary work on the cosmos at the Space Center in Houston. In September 1988 Radio Canada International broadcasted to millions of listeners an interview on Lyrical Conceptualism and the Korean Consulate’s press release on my invitation as an Olympic artist in Seoul. Exploring similarities and differences between the Blankism of Cho Sang Hyun  and Lyrical Conceptualism, an exhibit organized by the Seoul International Fine Art in Korea attracted 5,000 visitors in one week. During the show of Painting and Poetry, a Lyrical Conceptualist event held at Hanseo University in Seoul, I was a visiting artist in Korea and gave numerous interviews to newspaper journalists and TV reporters. Please see, for example, Art Korea, February-March 2004, pages 102-5. Also, artists, architects, poets and students approached me with their questions about my work. The influence of an art work cannot be objectively measured but it transcends the walls of the exhibition hall. For the verification of “notability”, allow me, please, also to draw your attention to a book by Jean-Marc Denomme and Madeleine Roy, Pour Une Pedagogie Interactive, Gaetan Morin Editeur, 1998, ISBN 2-89105-688-4. The front page of the book is illustrated with a painting of mine and on page 2 you find a biographical note of the artist. This is an excerpt from it: (Paul Hartal) “Poete et artiste reconnu mondialement, il est a l’origine du conceptualisme lyrique” (a poet and artist recognized worldwide, he is the originator of lyrical conceptualism). Let me also point out that since the early 1990s I have collaborated with the renowned writer and scientist Clifford Pickover, contributing numerous illustrations to his books, including Chaos in Wonderland, The Zen of Magic Squares, Circles and Stars, and the frontispiece on Einstein in Strange Brains and Genius. In Mazes for the Mind, Dr. Pickover wrote a chapter about the significance of my work, lyrical conceptualism and the philosophy of space and time. A few years ago Alisa Barstow in Russia reviewed on the exhibits of two exponents of the “Moscow School of Lyrical Conceptualism”, Elizaveta Berezovskaya and Yaketarina Nesterova. .

Paul Hartal 03:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)