Talk:Málaga CF

Adding current players profiles
There are a couple of players that do not have their profile and I was considering translating it from Wikipedia Spanish pages, is this ok? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockbottom (talk • contribs) 22:50, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Of course it is OK. Please help us to create the wikipedia pages for Atletico Málagueño's players! —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:Etzo (talk • contribs) 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Data and History - This is not fair
Can someone explain me why this club has his data and history separated into two different entries, CD Málaga and Málaga CF, while Fiorentina, which happened to have the very same fate, has everything merged in just one single entry?

I believe CD Málaga and Málaga CF history and data should also be merged into only one entry, being that Málaga CF is just the natural succession of CD Málaga and in the same fashion that ACF Fiorentina is from AC Fiorentina.(Mr Wesker (talk) 09:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC))


 * Split you the Fiorentina article, Málaga CF not is the sucessor of CD Málaga. If Málaga want be the sucessor of Málaga, firt must be pay the debts of CD Málaga. (Raymond Cruise (talk) 20:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC))


 * Split it yourself, along with Torino, Palermo, Napoli and Catania which are in the same situation and are doing exactly the same merging, being you the person claiming to split stats. But no, you plain do it here and in nowhere else, for a reason.


 * We are all the same here in Wikipedia, so if these Wikipedia articles are considering the refounded clubs as "heirs" of previous disappeared ones, merging the stats of both, then this is also the way the stats of CD Málaga and Málaga CF should be. (Mr Wesker (talk) 22:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC))

Málaga CF is the heir of CD Málaga
Maybe it's not a legal recognized succession, but Málaga CF is the natural heir of CD Málaga in almost all ways. Exposition of the reasons follows:


 * Málaga CF keeps all signals of identity that CD Málaga previously portrayed. It has exactly the same logo and uses exactly the same colours. It also plays in the same stadium, La Rosaleda and even has the same official anthems, Málaga La Bombonera. All in this club is exactly the same it was before. The only REAL DIFFERENCE is the name, which is Málaga in both of them, but one being Club Deportivo and the other Club de Fútbol, but that's all. If Málaga CF wouldn't be the heir of CD Málaga, it would probably have other different signals in order to have a new identity, but it doesn't, as what the clubs wants is clearly preserve continuity.


 * Málaga CF has an association of retired ex-players of the club, which include retired ex-players of CD Málaga. If Málaga CF wouldn't be the heir of CD Málaga, there would be no reason these CD Málaga ex-players would be affiliated in this associated, together with the Málaga CF ones. They are there because Málaga CF is now the heir of what CD Málaga was, which includes its ex-players.


 * Málaga CF has the CD Málaga trophies in its display cabinets, and all of them are its property. If Málaga CF wouldn't be the heir of CD Málaga, there would be absolute no reason these trophies would be in Málaga CF display cabinets. They would be anywhere else, but not along Málaga CF ones, because CD Málaga and Málaga CF supposedly not have any relation. But they have.


 * Even if some official institutions split the data of CD Málaga and Málaga CF in two separate entries, others institutions as official do merging of the data of CD Málaga and Málaga CF aswell, with absolutely no legal issues given because of the situation. This is the case of ONLAE (Organismo Nacional Loterías y Apuestas del Estado), the official organism which carries the Football pools in Spain (among other things) and which considers CD Málaga and Málaga CF into a sole "Málaga" entry, as stated in its [historical classification] section, in its [history of clubs] section, or in its [history of matches] section.


 * And most importantly, as some Fiorentina fan said here in Wikipedia (they share the same situation): "There are no AC Fiorentina fans and ACF Fiorentina fans, there are just Fiorentina fans". It is exactly the same here. There are no CD Málaga fans and Málaga CF fans, there are just Málaga fans. This wouldn't be the case if they would be different clubs with different identity. But they are, and they share it completely.


 * And even if this is not directly related to Málaga, there are also other clubs with articles here in Wikipedia, which have had the same fate of disappearing and refunding in their history, and are allowed to have merged all their history (as the former and the new club which acts as heir) in their single respective entries. Some examples are the Spanish clubs Mérida UD and Burgos CF and the Italian clubs U.S. Città di Palermo, S.S.C. Napoli, Torino F.C., Calcio Catania and ACF Fiorentina. In any of these case exist two separate articles doing splitting of the former and the new, heir club.

These are some of the reasons that consider CD Málaga and Málaga CF stats should be in the same article: the one of the actual Málaga CF, as this is the heir of CD Málaga to the eyes of almost everybody. There's no need for a separate article for CD Málaga when you can know everything about it in the article of its heir, Málaga CF. It's just a waste to have this kind of separation of what, maybe not legally, but naturally is the same. (Mr Wesker (talk) 00:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC))

Article separating again
I though this was settled up many months ago, but the user Raymond Cruise is now once again removing all CD Málaga info from the Málaga CF one and adding it to a separate CD Málaga article. No real need to do this. Málaga CF is the heir of CD Málaga, as it was stated with arguments in this discussion page. Málaga CF was built from the reserve team of CD Málaga upon its demise with the intention of self-developing itself into a carbon copy of its disappeared ancestor, and as such, all the past merits now belong to it. They retain everything from it, even its trophies and acknowledgements, and is the one moving forward its legacy, also stating clear its past with history museum sections and ex-players association from that era. As such, and as it's the case of many teams in the same situation here in Wikipedia, there's no point into having two different articles for what it's essentially the same thing. It would be incoherent. (Mr Wesker (talk) 15:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC))


 * According official website of malaga cf http://www.malagacf.es/, According LFP http://www.lfp.es/, and According all websites and all people that I Know. Is the last time, friend. your argument of the heir is a authentic stupidity and No one believes anyone --Raymond Cruise (talk) 15:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * All spanish football club are separate, if yet still remain some clubs, immediately I will edit these clubs. do you known some club? --Raymond Cruise (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * U.S. Città di Palermo, S.S.C. Napoli, Torino F.C., Calcio Catania, ACF Fiorentina. Are you still thinking this is an authentic stupidity no one believes? (Mr Wesker (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC))


 * Yes, is a stupidity, These clubs are spanish? In Italy exist a law that permits to clubs be refounded, In Spain not, chaoo. --Raymond Cruise (talk) 15:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No. Not a refounding. Those are still separate entities from their originals, with a different name, a separate register and a new founded date. There is no such law to allows any resurrecting of a disappeared entity. What is dead, it's dead forever and can't be brought back. Yet, these clubs prove heritage to their disappeared ancestors by adapting their shape and even retriving their trophies and belongings, and thus, the merits of the originals are brought back to them. Atlético Malagueño did that in 1994 when it was re-transformed into a carbon copy of the fallen CD Málaga. No one insists so much into separating them. (Mr Wesker (talk) 15:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC))


 * OK, the seasons and honours of CD Málaga can be add to Málaga CF article, but not can join to information of Málaga CF. the information of every club separately. At beggining of Málaga CF article, makes one reference for differentiate either clubs. --Raymond Cruise (talk) 16:14, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I agree with this. But please, let's keep it this way and don't revert back. I wouldn't want to see the polemic changes and this discussion brought back once again in the future. Adios. (Mr Wesker (talk) 16:39, 17 April 2009 (UTC))

Reads like a commercial...
The part on the Sheikh sounds like a promotion. If Al Thani is so great in "achieving his projects' goals in just two years time", why didn't he pay the players over the summer and sold some of Malaga's best and most important players abroad?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.199.180.109 (talk) 18:52, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself as of now
I have noticed there has been several modifications done to the article. The first and most important one is the "Founded" data in the Infobox which has been changed from 1948 to 1904, according to the new information officially provided by the club since several months ago. Also, the "Season to Season" section has been modified to merge the 1929-1992 years of CD Málaga with the 1992-present years of Atlético Malagueño / Málaga CF in a joint line, therefore dismissing all the 1949-1992 years of Atlético Malagueño entirely. While I don't disagree with these modifications, I can see several remnants still present in the article from the previous line of procedure (that is, Málaga CF was a separate club founded in 1948 and not a part of the one founded in 1904 and which ceased to exist in 1992) which contradict the new one.


 * The "History" section of the article is still attached to the old situation. It mentions a club founded in 1948 which was the reserve team of a separate club previously founded and which ceased to exist in 1992. There are brief mentions to the 1948-1992 gap of years and NO mention at all to anything that took happen before 1948 and beginning with 1904. This is the major issue of contradiction of the article as it doesn't match neither with the 1904 founding date nor with the updated "Season to Season" section.


 * The "History" section is headed by an external reference to the CD Málaga article in a ambiguous manner as of now, like somehow attempting to appoint to a diferent club apparently unrelated to this one for some reason. In the new situation, CD Málaga and Málaga CF are supposed to be the same entity, the same thing, and their trajectories even overlap themselves in this article as can be seen in the "Season to Season". There's no point in going to another article in order to obtain certain information which should actually be in this article given the new situation. And due to the aforementioned, the separate CD Málaga article has lost all its reason of existence as a separate article covering a separate club which is now supposed to be a inherent part of Málaga CF according to what the club is now oficially stating.


 * The "Honours" section appoints the trophies won since the nineties and onwards and then sub-sections to "Honours CD Málaga" with trophies won previously to the nineties, with redundant categories that were already in the previous like the "Segunda División" and "Trofeo Costa del Sol" trophies. Given the new situation, I don't see the need to do this classification. The "Note" is also irrelevant as of now, given that we now understand CD Málaga and Málaga CF as part of the same club which was named differently before and after. Or that's what the club is pretending to tell us in their website (see their "Previous names of the team through history" line).


 * The summary which is in the "Season to Season" section is now structured in five sub-classifications which could be confusing for the reader. The club simplifies this in their website by combining all the seasons in "Primera División", "Segunda División" and "Segunda División B" (no mention to "Tercera División" seasons, but they should be assumed) in the same joint basis. If the Wikipedia article strictly follows what they say regarding the year of fundation of the club as of being 1904, then this summary should be readapted into the same as theirs: a sole category with all seasons together and no naming classification to structure them.


 * The "Selected former players" and "Selected former coaches" sections both have a note saying something in the likes of: "This list includes players/coaches of CD Málaga and current Málaga CF". This distinction is unnecessary given the new situation, therefore there's no need of this remark. The "categories" links in each section should also be joint into one for the same reason, rather than having two separate articles referencing two separate clubs.


 * The presence CD Málaga article in the "See also" section. It applies the same to what was stated in point 2.


 * The "category" sections reference to "Association football clubs established in 1948" and "1948 establishments in Spain".

So please, if the article has or seems to have ben adapted to the new situation officially given by the club (which is fine with me), then this has to be done entirely and not just change a few things while leaving the rest as it previously was. Anyone not familiar with the club background at all which goes and reads the article as it is now can be quite mistaked by the series of contradictory informations there are now in there because of confronting situations of what the club considers regarding its past history. (Mr Wesker (talk) 03:35, 11 October 2012 (UTC))

History section
Would it be possible for someone either bi-lingual or skilled enough in both English and Spanish languages (or at least, someone either native or skilled enough in English language with a minimal understanding of Spanish language) to bring an accurate English translation of the History section which is now in the Spanish Wikipedia article ?

The Spanish equivalent of this article is now featuring a longer and more complete History section that traces the origins of the club all the way back to 1904. This is the foundation year Málaga CF is now oficially considering of its own, as it can be seen in the club website. The club no longer recognises its origin as starting in 1948 with Club Atlético Malagueño, which is what the English article reflects in the History section. Therefore, a change is needed, and my guess regarding the best option to do it is to perform a English translation of the History section featured in the Spanish article.

If there are no users interested to do this, then I'll try to do it myself at a certain date. If there's any objections to it, please bring them in this discussion section. (Mr Wesker (talk) 04:28, 2 December 2012 (UTC))

Objection. Claiming to be founded in 1904 is not actually being founded in 1904. Current Málaga CF was founded in 1949, and changed it name in 1994. If it's the natural heir, might be, but it's a fact that this is not the very same club. Andalús (talk) 23:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, if you don't agree, then you can always contact the club and see what they answer you. This is not something to be discussed here either. Given the official statement from Málaga CF, the club is definitely tracing its founding roots to 1904, and this article is also supporting this as a fact. And this is reflected in several instances of the article EXCEPT for the history section, which is minimal to none.


 * That's why I was requesting IF someone would be able to expand it according to the historic background situation the club is currently proposing. Translating the Spanish Wikipedia history section equivalent would be enough. If you are not willing to either contribuite this or even support this new position the club is enforcing, then you are welcome. (Mr Wesker (talk) 02:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC))

Dortmund - Malaga 2013
I made an edit to the section about the Dortmund vs Malaga Champions League quarter-final in 2013 because the old entry did not cite its sources properly. Reference no 16 makes it clear that the two "highly controversial goals" in that game were Malaga's second and Dortmund's third, thus giving both sides something to have grievances about. The way this section was written before, however, stated that two of Dortmund's goals were controversial. (128.176.228.13 (talk) 11:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC))

External links modified
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