Talk:M-150 (energy drink)

Notability
This product is clearly notable. M-150 has a cult following in South-East Asia and is probably by far the most stocked energy drink in at least Thailand and Laos, and has been for a number of years. Please keep to mind the importance of counteracting systematic bias and do not remove this product if you have no idea of the status of the product in the region. Sources to confirm notability are hard to get by but given the notability of Red Bull in Western countries, having at least a stub for its most prevalent competitor in its home region would confirm notability even for Western readers (which, again, the English Wikipedia is not supposed to be centred on).

Rdavout (talk) 11:37, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * NOTABILITY is demonstrated by reliable sources. I looked and the two that are already cited are the only ones I found.  What other sources are you aware of?  If you cannot find more I support the redirect. If you continue to argue for for keeping this I will just nominate it for deletion, the result of which will likely be a merge/redirect to Osotspa Jytdog (talk) 15:36, 27 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Jytdog, what you are doing and the way you are doing it is all that is wrong with Wikipedia and made me quit for years. Man, what do you do expect? Aren't 19 million results for "M-150 thai" on Google enough for you? Try doing one in Thai (เอ็ม–150), searching all over the Thai press, checking on Facebook for sponsored events such as, going to friggin' Thailand and seeing the most famous drink of the country in every joint, house, bus you'll even take there. If there are only two references in English that suit you when too bad for the crappy coverage the non-Western world gets in the English-language media. What's your great contribution in having other people's work reverted or wasting their time when they actually contribute something? Do nominate it for deletion. Waste your time, waste my time and that of countless other people. Nice one. Rdavout (talk) 19:07, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * If you would like to change the NOTABILITY policy, the place to do that is there, not here. Jytdog (talk) 19:22, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * these changes violate WP:VERIFY which is Wikipedia policy. Jytdog (talk) 19:23, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Why my changes and not yours? What paragraph? Why do deletionist have some sort of a magical right to delete things from other people? (I have kept other unsourced elements because in my understand that's how Wikipedia works: an unfrequented article is modified one day by an unfrequent contributor, someone else flags his addition with a tag, a few months to years later someone finally finds the reference. Remove the initial content, and most often than final part will never happen.)
 * This place is not a wild west. If you want to add content, it needs to be sourced.  The content you added (see dif above) is not sourced. Jytdog (talk) 20:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, Mr. Cowboy, **I am the guy who provided the sources**. Simply I am defending the contributions of a variety of other contributors before you decided to delete anything you didn't like. Put sources tags for anything dubious, do not delete. Read Wikipedia policy on deletion and content. No you do not have to put a source for everything single word you write. You don't. Practice what you preach for a second and you'll get why that isn't the case. Rdavout (talk) 20:18, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Hey, how about proving your good faith by actually using Google to glean a few notable sources. Please take the time to add full references and text and to analyse your deletion:
 * private ownership by Thai magnate → Not good enough for you? Google it, add references.
 * why remove Carabao and Krating Daeng and respective market position? Fully referenced. What do you want more?
 * one of South-East Asia top-selling energy drinks, with very strong presence in countries such as... → Please Google M-150 for each and every country you deleted, in various languages.
 * It is sold in bottles and cans, typically with a red star-badge emblem as its logo with the words 'sacrifice', 'courage' and 'devotion' encircling a bold yellow 'M' and is strongly marketed towards the male working class. → Marketing isn't relevant for notable brands? Please go trash and delete Coca Cola's article. I'll be watching from the tribune.

A few articles to choose from:
 * http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/588813/osotspa-eyes-myanmar-sales → Myanmar/Burma, 98% outlet penetration, also leading in Thailand and Laos
 * http://www.glass-international.com/news/view/inspection-success-for-iris-in-thailand references a study in Thai you could probably try to find
 * http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:424604/fulltext01 → thesis, read it!
 * http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:225451/FULLTEXT01.pdf → other thesis, read it!
 * http://www.euromonitor.com/sports-and-energy-drinks-in-thailand/report → ask for a sample figure, etc.

Rdavout (talk) 20:40, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

I leave it to any motivated editor to exploit the above sources that provide ample backing for the most stringent editor (see for instance Notability_(breweries) for inspiration on how ridiculous this is even without the added references, talk about double standards! – also full text to read before flagging for deletion at Notability_(organizations_and_companies)). I have depleted my Wikipedia mana for another year. Kudos to. Rdavout (talk) 20:49, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, so you trash the joint and then leave, when people say you cannot edit that way. Hm. Jytdog (talk) 21:08, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Jytdog editors like you are what is wrong with Wikipedia. What you are doing is making Wikipedia worse. You are not interested in actual information, or helping people, but in enforcing the rules. It is really disgusting. What is worse is how people who want to make Wikipedia better, such as providing accurate and helpful information are simply argued with and actively discouraged from participating. You say trash the place then leave but what Rdavout has done is actually provide references. He doesn't have to do anything else. That is what the small-minded over-zealous editors should be doing, namely taking the actual informative content and doing their little grammar and formatting edits. That is all you are good for, so do it, do that work. Stop discouraging people with actual content from participating with the threatening notes. Such a tragedy of the commons. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:15, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * nope, that's not what i do here. why do you think edits like this are OK? and those new sources do not support the unsourced content in that dif either..... Jytdog (talk) 07:18, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Market share
Please note that the market shares indicated at out-of-the-hat figures that were the only ones I could find in English. I put them all the same as this page was deleted for "lack of notability" and constantly threatened to be so, despite being more popular than most drink brands listed on Wikipedia due to the so-called "systematic bias". There is no proper basis to believe either one of them due to lack of genuine credibility of the sources but Wikipedia editors tend to have a very different opinion of credibility and any superficial journalist that posts something online has more clout over here than the daily experiences of millions of non-English speaking people. Rdavout (talk) 19:38, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Rdavout (talk) 19:14, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Both sources site market research done by others locally that seem authoritative. I see no reason to question the sources that report market share, nor their sources. Jytdog (talk) 19:21, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Authoritative? The figures originally seem to come from a local market research firm with no notability in one case, and are not even attributed in the second but probably come from the competitor Carabao who may have an interest to share figures that are higher or lower than reality, or may or may not have an interest in sharing precise figures with three significant digits to hide a methodology that does not enable them to be so precise in their evaluation. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about and have never got to work with market research figures in markets where data is not shared. As a general rule, someone serious would keep a range of market share as a probable interval, not keep the most recent figure just "because". Rdavout (talk) 19:38, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * If you think the two sources are not legit then we should remove them and then we should delete the article, as they are the only reliable sources I could find. Jytdog (talk) 20:05, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Search better. And if you can't speak Thai and never went to South-East Asia, leave it to better informed editors to propose deletion. Rdavout (talk) 20:11, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * And to make it very clear, the sources are legit but they quote figures with unknown reliability. Can you take to read properly before writing? What is this for you, an ego contest? I am still conforming to Wikipedia policy on assuming good faith but I am finding this harder and harder to believe in your case. Rdavout (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * You cannot pick and choose what facts from the source are reliable or not. Jytdog (talk) 20:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Where you say you have been or where I say I have been are not relevant in Wikipedia. Please don't personalize this. Jytdog (talk) 20:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Text deleted by Jytdog
I am keeping this in sight as this is a low traffic page and content by several users will probably be lost as deletionists with time on their hands always prevail otherwise. Any decent editor would have started a conversation on the talk page and then waited a while given the slow traffic on the M-150 (energy drink) page. Rdavout (talk) 19:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

M-150 is an energy drink of the Thai company Osotspa Co. Ltd., owned by the Osathanugrah family. It is the key brand of Osotspa in Thailand and the country's leading energy drink, with some estimates of market share ranging from 46% to 65% – Carabao coming second and Krating Daeng, the basis of the creation of Red Bull, coming a distant third. It is also one of South-East Asia top-selling energy drinks, with very strong presence in countries such as Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Timor Leste, Philippines and is available in a large number of countries globally, including the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia and Japan.

It is sold in bottles and cans, typically with a red star-badge emblem as its logo with the words 'sacrifice', 'courage' and 'devotion' encircling a bold yellow 'M' and is strongly marketed towards the male working class.

It has been recently launched in powder sachets in some of its Asian home markets.

COI editing/recruiting
Please note posting at COIN here. I've added the "recruiting" tag to the top of this page, and the COI edit notice. Jytdog (talk) 12:17, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

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