Talk:M-52 (Michigan highway)/Archive 1

Discussion from DYK nomination

 * ... that southbound M-52 in downtown Adrian, Michigan carries both directions of the US 223 business loop in town?


 * ALT1:... that southbound M-52 in downtown Adrian, Michigan carries both the north and southbound directions of the US 223 business loop in town? :*Comment: I've delayed this nomination a bit. There is a map being made to illustrate this strange highway routing that will be added to the article shortly. The first revision of this map is at File:Adrian MI road map.svg, but it will be updated to zoom in on the one-way street routings better before it added to the article.

5x expanded by Imzadi1979 (talk). Self nom at 06:30, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


 * New map has been added. Imzadi1979 (talk) 00:08, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * It took me a little while of rereading the explanation and looking at the map to get this. If I understand correctly, Church, Broad, Front, and Winter Streets function almost like a giant traffic circle or roundabout around the downtown? BUS 223N makes a 3/4 circle, of which the first part is concurrent with M-52 N and the second part concurrent with M-52 S. Do you think the wording in the article could be improved to better explain this? Thanks, cmadler (talk) 19:54, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Or maybe arrows or some additional markings on the map? cmadler (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I added some arrows and placed the directional plates above the shields on the map. In the process of editing the map, I removed all the extra street names. I know that that at standard thumbnail size the plates don't show up that well, but short of forcing the map to a larger size, I'm not sure what the solution is. Any copy editing suggestions are appreciated. Imzadi1979 (talk) 14:02, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that's much more clear, both in text and the map. I don't really have any ideas for the issue with the plates on the map. Forcing it to a larger size seems like the only option there. I think it's usually frowned on, but maybe in this case it would be appropriate to add something like "click map for larger image" or "click to enlarge map" to the caption. cmadler (talk) 16:14, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svgh & expansion are good. The hooked fact appears to be cited to this map, but the map doesn't clearly support that fact. Add a source that more clearly supports this fact, and then this will be good for DYK. cmadler (talk) 19:45, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The Google Maps source also confirms the hook. Footnotes added. Imzadi1979 (talk) 20:14, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

The Google Maps page does show the one-way streets and the shields for the route markings, though not the north/south designations. I'm going to ask for another editor to comment here on whether that's sufficient, and whether Google Maps is considered a reliable source in this regard. cmadler (talk) 10:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's always been my understanding the maps Google Maps uses were not reliable, but Street View is just fine when it's not possible to go somewhere and take the picture yourself. Checking out Street View, just east of point A and just west of where eastbound BUS US 223 turns onto the loop on the Google Maps source, shows BUS US 223 as east – west and not north–south.  Hope this helps. --Fredddie™ 19:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. In addition, the Google Maps map view seems to show M-52 traveling north through town on Main St, but only US223B circling around the east side. cmadler (talk) 20:39, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Google Maps has never been held to be unreliable as a source. I can't access Street View. It just doesn't load anything on my computer at all, just a black screen. Now, if there's an exception to the rule that a business loop is signed in the same directions as the mainline, I can't tell you because I can't use Google SV here. US 223 is a north–south highway, so the business loop should be a north–south highway. Yahoo Maps (and Google the last times I was looking) show NB M-52 turning off Main Street. The map in the article was created using the GIS framework from the State of Michigan. Now, if someone has a suggestion for an alternate hook, I'd like to see one, or resolve this situation that's been going on for over 2 weeks. Imzadi1979 (talk) 22:36, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The third and fourth images from the bottom here suggest 223 as E/W, which I think is possible despite the odd number because it is a spur of the N/S US-23, however, other pages do suggest that 223 is also N/S. This suggests that BUS223 is E/W. I think this will take some more looking into, in the meantime this article will probably need a different hook if it is to be included in DYK. cmadler (talk) 02:00, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I shouldn't have completely swept Google Maps under the rug like I did. There are irregularities, but none more than any other map source.  Everything I can see from Street View shows BUS US 223 as being east–west while US 223 is north–south.  --Fredddie™ 04:17, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, since the first hook doesn't mention directions except for M-52, that hook has no issues. Imzadi1979 (talk) 11:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg First hook is good. I've struck out the ALT hook to ensure that it is not accidentally taken. I'm editing the article this morning to change references to BUS223 from N/S to E/W, since that's what I consistently see in Street View also, and as a result, I'll remove mention of wrong-way concurrency from the article. I'm also going to copy this entire discussion to the article's talk page so it's preserved. cmadler (talk) 12:54, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Hate to tell you this but all the downtown Adrian streets were made two way on November 14, 2009--Lawrence (talk) 13:28, 12 March 2010 (UTC) I thought maybe you would want a link Lawrence (talk) 18:01, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I found that link already, but since I'm in the Central UP and packing to head back to Grand Rapids, I thought that I would wait until the article was off the main page before editing that section of the article into the past tense. Imzadi1979 (talk) 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Updated now. The paragraphs have been moved to the history section and new text added to the RD section. Imzadi1979 (talk) 16:23, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Untitled comments
Bkonrad, great additions. The only question I have is how did you verify the counties it went through? I couldn't get an online detailed map that showed the counties. I think it may dip into some more. - Taxman 15:25, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I also had a hard time with which boundaries it crossed. This time I checked it with Mapquest. The Michigan.gov site also has fairly detailed maps which I use more often (but didn't this time for no particular reason). older &ne; wiser 15:34, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Ahh yes, those state maps are the ones I was looking for. M-52 does indeed dip into a bit of Jackson county. - Taxman 16:05, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)


 * Good catch -- I had looked right at that very section and missed Jackson County. older &ne; wiser 16:20, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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M-52 planned four-lane expressway- where should it be mentioned?
At one point in time, M-52 and US 12 were planned as four-lane expressways. This planning went as far as grading a full cloverleaf interchange north of their current intersection on M-52 before both expressways were cancelled. The grading is still visible, but I don't know where I should mention its existence. (This came from the former List of unused highways in the United States page, and I was told I could move the entries to their respective road pages.) Xninetynine (talk) 15:26, 10 September 2019 (UTC) X99