Talk:M-57 (Michigan highway)/Archive 1

Railroad crossings/old depots
It crosses another GLC line in Cheasaning. It also crosses Huron and Eastern Railway in Montrose and Saginaw Bay Southern Railway in Clio. Montrose and Clio's old depots are still there and they're both small museums; Clio's has a Michigan Historical Marker too. TomCat4680 (talk) 22:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SIZE and WP:UNDUE, we can't list everything. M-57 is 105 miles, so we have to pick and choose what's listed. The old depots are not needed, IMHO.  Imzadi 1979  →   04:55, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So? M-54 is a less than a third of that length (around 30 miles) but repeatedly mentions the CSX line. And how is Rosie's Diner more notable than a Michigan Registered Historical Place (Clio Depot)? Why the double standard? Also, please don't remove my tags until a consensus is reached. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:02, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * My comment was aimed at the depots, which aren't nationally known. (Rosie's has been the subject of several features on TV, including Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives with Guy Fieri in addition to its role in a major national advertising campaign.) Add the other railroad crossings if you like, I never objected to that. As for comparisons with M-54... it's a scalability issue: the longer the highway, the less detail. M-209 (Michigan highway) at a half mile has practically a building-by-building description of its route in Glen Haven, while U.S. Route 2 in Michigan glosses over that level of detail for 300 miles. If we covered every highway at the same level of detail, the longer highways would have too much content in their articles.  Imzadi 1979  →   20:11, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine I'm adding the other crossings. Rosie's Diner doesn't seem that notable to me, but that's probably because I wasn't born until 1980 and I don't watch Guy Fieri, but I'll leave it in. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:15, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * When the diner moved to Michigan, it made newspapers as far away as Florida, and it was cloned for a planned chain of restaurants in Colorado. (Two were built, now separately owned.) When the diner closed last year, that made the regional news through The Grand Rapids Press, its sister publications and mlive.com. I had to take visiting friends and family there when I lived in the Grand Rapids area; it easily ranks up with Yesterdog (renamed "Dog Years" for the American Pie film series which was based on East Grand Rapids) in terms of being a restaurant destination for pop-culture aficionados in Western Michigan.
 * I do find it funny that you want the section expanded and remove content. Just restore the rail crossing and add the other two so we can call this a day, please.  Imzadi 1979  →   20:21, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That's because you removed my tag (without a discussion BTW). I added it back plus 3 other lines (separate GLC line, H&E, and SBS), for a total of 4. Day is called. Rosie's info is still there like I said. End of discussion. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:28, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * By the way, it's not wrong to say that a feature is on the west side of a city in prose; the junction lists for Michigan should all specify the exact townships in the location column. I even try to make sure that the locations list both/all municipalities (See the M-82–M-120 junction in either article for the extreme case of a highway junction at a county tri-point that is a township quadpoint, all properly defined in the tables.) But in the prose, a certain level of gloss is needed sometimes. In most cases, our townships aren't indicated on maps, although some city insets on the MDOT map do show them. Rand McNally and other commercial map makers usually omit them, meaning that it's usually more useful to "round" the locations in prose to indicate that something is X direction from the city/village in question.
 * Second, but we also have to be careful in inserting footnotes into prose. The MDOT rail map can't verify river crossings and most other details that the MDOT highway map verifies. That's why I always have to insert my pair of footnotes to MDOT highway and Google maps before adding a name from the rail map. The understood convention is that if someone reads backwards from a footnote or footnote cluster, everything back to the last footnote/cluster can be verified to that citation. I try to isolate rail line mentions to single sentences cited to the MDOT rail map with the pair of map citations at the end of the preceding sentence. I do the same whenever I bring in other details that are sourced to travel guides or newspaper/TV articles to make it clear what the extra source is citing vs. what came from the maps.  Imzadi 1979  →   20:37, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well change the cites to how you want them, I'm done editing this article (for today at least). TomCat4680 (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

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