Talk:M-6 (Michigan highway)/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Racepacket (talk) 01:50, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * "M-6 starts at exit 64 on I-196 " is confusing. You should indicate whether you are talking about the west endpoint of M-6, and that the exit number is the I-196 sequence and not the M-6 sequence.
 * "the massive cloverleaf interchange complex at US 131. " is a bit overwritten.
 * Is MDOT the agency that lists highways on the NHS? If so consider changing, "The entire length of the freeway is listed on the National Highway System,"  to "MDOT has listed the entire length of the freeway on the National Highway System, " Active voice is always better.
 * "M-6 includes a pedestrian path " might mean "The M-6 right of way includes a pedestrian path" Explicitly state whether the path currently or is planned to cover the entire length of M-6.
 * You mention twice that the first section opened on November 20, 2001, citing fn 1 and fn 14. I would remove the duplication.  I would combine the two sentences.
 * Perhaps change "The remaining phases, between US 131 and M-37 and between I-196 and US 131 were started on April 1, 2002." to "Construction of the remaining phases, between US 131 and M-37 and between I-196 and US 131 were started on April 1, 2002." or "The remaining construction phases..."
 * "crossed to traffic with posted detours" means "closed to traffic with posted detours"
 * "These beams had to be replaced over design flaws found in 2002" means "These beams had to be replaced after design flaws were found in 2002" This could be rewritten to explain that the new bridge was first built to move traffic from westbound I-196 to eastbound M-6, but that in 2002, MDOT found design flaws in the new bridge.  Beams were replaced to fix those flaws.
 * I would change "There was a shortage of nuts and bolts that delayed completion of the work, a shortage caused by human error." to "Completion of the work was delayed when human error caused a shortage of nuts and bolts."
 * Did the Southbelt Shuffle include the section that was opened in November 2001?
 * You write, "overpass bridges in the I-196 interchange on the west end" - does this mean the beams that had to be replaced to correct the design flaws? Is it just one bridge or more than one?  If one then change "overpass bridges" to "overpass bridge".  Help the reader by referencing the other discussion of the same bridge. Why leave the reader wondering if it is a different bridge?  (I understand that the ramp from westbound I-196 to M-6 crosses over the ramp from westbound M-6 to I-196.)
 * Does "When opened, reconstruction work was still being completed on overpass bridges in the I-196 interchange on the west end." mean that M-6 opened for just eastbound traffic at I-196, or was westbound traffic on M-6 allowed to exit north on I-196 on opening day?
 * "to close traffic along I-196 over a weekend," -> "to close traffic along I-196 over a weekend in 2004,"? Can you give the reader a time frame?
 * B. MoS compliance:
 * capitalize "march 1985"
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * The Route Description Section states, "No such access to 68th Street is provided for eastbound M-6 traffic," The interchange table states "No access to 68th Street westbound; exit 77 on US 131" and colors the row pink. What is happening here is a trumpet interchange between US 131 and 68th Street. However to avoid a short merge lane because the ramps for M-6 are too close to the ramps for 68th Street, there are two bridges to grade separate the exiting traffic from the entering traffic.  Both the US 131/M6 and the US 131/68th Street  interchanges are complete.  Hence, no matter what a driver's original direction of travel, he can access 68th Street.  However, the table notation creates the false impression that M-6 westbound can't access 68th Street, when in fact, a driver can take the cloverleaf ramp to US 131 South and then before that ramp merges into US 131, turn onto an exit ramp for 68th Street. Since both eastbound and westbound M-6 access 68th street on exactly the same ramp without entering the through lanes of US 131, you might want to delete the discussion and the pink shading in the interchange table.  Otherwise, rewrite it to eliminate the implication that this is more than a signage issue.
 * I disagree entirely with this point. The article and junction list are correct as written.  If you look at this map, you can see that westbound M-6 traffic has to go way out of their way to get to 68th Street. –Fredddie™ 01:19, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No dead links found.
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * need ref for "When the freeway was opened, it was the first in the state of Michigan to use a single-point urban interchange "
 * need ref for "MDOT also used a new technique to recess the pavement markings into the concrete"
 * These all use ref 21, so now ref 21 has three four consecutive usages in the same paragraph! –Fredddie™
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * It is very easy to miss any historically significant items. If you have researched the route, I will trust you that it is complete.
 * How long is the M-6 Trail? Any proposal to extend to full length of M-6? What does "Work on the trail connections was completed in November 2008." mean: that all of the trail was ready before that but that the connectors were completed in 2008?  that it was officially opened in November 2008? What happens to the trail at cross streets - at grade crossings or grade separations? Can you identify Ivanrest Ave SW and Hanna Lake Ave SE as the two grade separations nearest the terminals of the Trail - or better yet the mileposts for the Trail ends?
 * Perhaps you should explain why a southern beltline was constructed, but there was no comparable construction on the west side of Grand Rapids? Many cities build circumferential routes. Here, I-96 seems to form the northern and eastern beltline.
 * It is odd that you note two hospitals bordering the right of way, but don't mention that East Kentwood High School does as well. Sorry, I missed the reference to EKHS that was already in the article. Racepacket (talk) 18:50, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Any "To Airport" signage that would warrant a notation in the interchange table?
 * B. Focused:
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:


 * Replies
 * 1) Reasonably well written
 * A. Prose quality
 * All US highway articles start at the end of the lowest mileposts, per convention. That is the western or southern terminus almost all cases.
 * Actually, I have a source to add that clarifies just how large that interchange is. Added that to clarify.
 * To answer that question, it's a combination of factors, and I don't think that MDOT gets to list it unilaterally, but I'll research the process to see what I can find.
 * The M-6 Trail has its own article. I'm not privy to whether or not it's considered complete at its current length or if there are any plans to extend it. As of right now, if there are any plans to do so, they're not public. I've added the length, but anything else is really best covered in the separate article. A quick search of the Grand Rapids Press archives does not indicate any further plans for the trail.
 * Removed less precise opening date.
 * Done
 * Fixed typo.
 * Tweaked.
 * Done.
 * No, it didn't.
 * Tweaked per above
 * Tweaked per above
 * Done.
 * B. MoS compliance
 * 1) Fixed.
 * 2) Factually accurate and verifiable
 * A. References to sources
 * Um, I live 4 miles from that interchange. I know how it's set up. Actually, there is no ramp access from westbound M-6 directly to 68th Street; actually there's no way for westbound M-6 to hit the ramps to 68th Street. If I drove the WB M-6 to SB US 131 loop ramp, I'll dump into US 131... the ramp from SB US 131 to 68th Street crosses overhead with no slip ramp between the CD lane and the 68th Street ramp. Google Maps does not show this well, but trust me, it's not possible to make that connection. It's the only one of 16 possible movements that can't be made.
 * I was only going by the google maps view of the interchange and take your word for it. Racepacket (talk) 18:30, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary
 * Duplicated the existing citation.
 * Duplicated the exiting citation.
 * 1) Broad in coverage
 * A. Major aspects.
 * Well, I've read every Grand Rapids Press article on the freeway since it was built. I hope I haven't missed anything.
 * There is a separate article on the trail. Additional coverage of it in this article isn't necessary, but I did add the length to this article.
 * None of the sources discuss that situation, so that question can't be answered.
 * It is mentioned: "Near Kalamazoo Avenue, the freeway passes through an area with retail businesses and movie theaters on each side of the interchange; to the northeast is East Kentwood High School."
 * Not really, but I did add GRR to the exit list.

So all we have left is the MDOT role in listing M-6 on the NHS. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 18:50, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the FHWA, it's a joint decision. MDOT would propose additions for Michigan after consulting the local officials, and the FHWA would approve them. .  Imzadi  1979   →  18:59, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * How about changing "The entire length of the freeway is listed on the National Highway System, a system of roads important to the nation's economy, defense and mobility.[7]" to "MDOT, with the concurrence of FHWA, listed the entire length of the freeway on the National Highway System...." Racepacket (talk) 19:38, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't really see that as an improvement though. If someone wants to know how roads are listed on the NHS, that's why the wikilink is there. Your proposed wording is very clunky to me, just to flip the voice of a single sentence at the end of a paragraph, on what is really a minor detail that only needs to be there to be a complete representation of the topic. Since the NHS only exists on paper for funding, most people wouldn't know or care if that sentence was completely omitted from the text of the article, but those of us in the know will know if full, partial or no NHS listing is not mentioned.  Imzadi  1979   →  19:52, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't necessarily disagree that the sentence can be reworded, I don't think it should hold the article back from GA status. –Fredddie™ 03:57, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 2nd opinion I assume this is the only issue for which a 2nd opinion was requested. I would probably either leave the sentence as it is (just simply that it is listed) or if you want the active voice, then say (in better prose than what I'm quickly writing here) that the road was listed by the Federal Highway Administration. The MDOT did not list the freeway on the National Highway System, because MDOT can't do that. From what I can find in the NHS procedures on FHWA, the state, in cooperation with local and regional officials, proposes changes (in this case, an addition) to the NHS that have to comply with criteria set out by the federal government, and the federal government evaluates the request and may approve it. The Department of Transportation is a federal bureaucracy headed by a cabinet-level secretary. I didn't see any "shall approve" language anywhere so I don't think it is an automatic rubber stamp. Aaron north (talk) 03:54, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was going to mention on here that M-28 (Michigan highway), M-35 (Michigan highway) and U.S. Route 41 in Michigan, all featured articles, have similar sentences that weren't flagged for "improvement".  Imzadi  1979   →  04:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)