Talk:M27 motorway

Untitled
I orignally npoved some of the text to The motoway was supposed to continue to Havent, but the hard shoulder is a few inches too narrow for motorway regulations.

However after some research I have the feeling the source of this information was the CBRD page for the A3(M). If I was wrong please put this back in :) 82.70.146.238 00:04, 16 July 2005 (UTC)


 * 1) AFAIK the official reason the section of A27 from Junc 12 to the A3M has never been made motorway is that there is no viable and safe alternative route for non-motorway traffic.Nuttah68 10:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

M274
This: The M274 was meant to be the A32 around Fareham and off to Gosport Makes sense regarding the road numberings, however do you have a source for this? It has not been on any old plans that I have seen.

Junction 13
Regarding the map, I have to say that J13 does not exist. |Multimap and |Get-a-map from Ordanance Survey both show a J12 and then an limited junction as part of the same complex. On the ground it is only signed as J!2. Additionally the |Highways Agency also only show J12 on their map. Unfortuately, then, the map is incorrect and needs to be amended. Additionally the M27 terminates at its junction with the M275 not some distance on as shown on the map. I have not removed the map, becuase it is 90% of the way there, but it does need amending. Regan123 02:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Shortly after J12 the M27 regrades and becomes the A27. Changes in classification have never been given junction numbers. The interchange Captain Scarlett is convinced is J13 is the limited access to/from the A27-Brighton direction only, this junction gives no access to or from the M27 at all. Nuttah68 08:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Junction 13 is a partial exit with the A27, where the M27 does become the A27. J13 is the limited access to/from the A27-Brighton direction only, this junction gives access to or from the M27 to or from the East. Western exit and entrance are on the A27, not the M27. You may also spell my nickname properly as well.

Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 09:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That is the only map I have ever seen with it as J13. The AA website shows it as junction 12, the Highways Agency do as do the Ordnance Survey, who are the UK's definitive source for maps.  It is Junction 12 and not 13. Regan123 10:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Further link showing it as junction 12: Streetmap Regan123 12:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Plus, I notice the map is labelled Motorway 27. I can't think of many people who refer to it as that. S.I.s would refer to the M27 Motorway. In the same way that S.I.s usually refer to the A1(M) as the A1 Motorway, the Mxx or Axx refers to the route number, and is not actually short for anything. Plus, what are the copyright implications for the map? Is it derived from Ordnance Survey data (and would therefore be crown copyright)? Richard B 13:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * See also User_talk:Captain_scarlet where part of this discussion has taken place. I would like to get a consensus on the existance of Junction 13.  Regan123 14:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC).

Right, have done some more research and have brought together some information from the other discussion:
 * Ordnance Survey (OS) Map Showing Junction 12
 * Highways Agency Project Page showing it as an unnumbered junction
 * Highways Agency Project Page showing it all as one complex
 * The Motorway Archive Shows Junction 12
 * SABRE Photo Gallery Image showing junction 12
 * [[Image:Motorway 27 - junction 13.png|50px|thumb|left]] A map from Collins who base their maps on Ordnance suurvey maps, showing junction 13.


 * Multimap at a scale using a Collins map, showing no junction number. This would seem to contradict the picture above which references junction 12 on the sign.
 * Multimap at a different scale which uses OS maps showing junction 12 at one end of the M275 and an unnumbered junction at the other.
 * showing junction 12.

I hope that someone local can help out with on the ground knowledge should one be passing by. I have also posed the question on SABRE here. Can anyone else help with references one way or the other? Please also see User_talk:Captain_scarlet for another part of the discussion. Regan123 02:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I was born and have lived in Portsmouth 40+ years and drive the route every morning. Unfortunately, User_talk:Captain_scarlet appears unwilling to accept that they are wrong on this case. This is an official map from the Highways Agency, clearly showing that J12 is the highest numbered junction on the M27 and beyond that the road is the A27.
 * http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/5662.aspx
 * Interestingly, the Collins map implies there are no junction numbers on the A3(M). Nuttah68 07:50, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The SABRE thread has also confirmed it as not being numbered. Regan123 11:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As there is no evidence of junction 13 existing, or ever have being in existence, apart from the Collins map reproduced here I feel User_talk:Captain_scarlet may have fallen foul of a larger scale map version of a Trap street. As such the plan is in distinct danger of being a copyright violation and I will remove it shortly. Nuttah68 17:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Whilst I don't have a problem with it being removed, perhaps you should place it here along with the dispute tag, in case others who may not have been online in the past couple of days would like to contribute. Also this has been posted on the SABRE thread:


 * A handful of Collin's Atlases in the mid 1990's showed this junction as jnc 13. It also showed the A27 as motorway upto the A3(M) with jncs 14 (A2030) and 15 (A3(M)).


 * Regan123 18:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Map under dispute as incorrect (see above) is linked here:


 * Regan123 23:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to say as another local who travels that exact spot (between J12 and the A27) both ways everyday (almost), that J13 does not exist and the M27 ends just before the Cosham junction to the A27 (two miles or so before the A3(M) starts eastbound). The Cosham junction (eastbound) to the A27 also makes no mention of the M27 only the A27. As such J13 as no place on a map. Ben 12:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Future plans
Are the roadworks between Junctions 3 and 4 finished? Due for completion in March 2009 would imply that the speed limits ought to have been lifted by now.Patrick lovell (talk) 17:19, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

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