Talk:MAX Orange Line/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Gerald Waldo Luis (talk · contribs) 04:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this article. Note that my timezone is UTC+7.  Gerald WL  04:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Images

 * The image File:Lawn sign supporting 1998 ballot measure for TriMet's then-planned South-North MAX project.jpg, used at the "Failed South/North Line" subsection, is currently nominated for deletion in Wikimedia Commons, concerning whether or not the image is actually de minimis., the nominator, also adds "The image of the streetcar is problematic." Although I think it is certainly de minimis, this must be addressed.  Gerald  WL  04:23, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ I've removed it.
 * Cannot the image simply be reduced to satisfy the issue? I would do so myself, but I have no idea how much reduction is considered necessary. I feel this image is a helpful and appropriate inclusion. – SJ Morg (talk) 11:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , for now it's best to remove that image first. If the deletion nomination has been addressed and it's kept, it can be restored.  Gerald WL  11:08, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is forced to be done since GAs must not have copyright violations, in which the file is tagged for as of now.  Gerald WL  11:09, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * My question was directed at Truflip99, not the GAN reviewer. Removal of the questioned image is an easy solution, but is not the best solution, in my view. – SJ Morg (talk) 07:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Lead

 * Capitalize "States".  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ WOW, thanks for catching that. *facepalm* --truflip99 (talk) 08:03, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * "...just outside of Milwaukie proper in unincorporated Clackamas County." what does "proper" and "unincorporated" mean? Unfamiliar with the geography of the US, thus I'm unfamiliar with these terms.  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ I've added the appropriate wikilinks. Should suffice for GA.


 * Why is "car-free" in quotations? If it is what I think it is, suggest linking to Pedestrian zone.  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It is not entirely car-free. This is explained in the body.


 * "...as a northbound service of the transit mall"-- Is that all good, or is the name of the mall literally Transit Mall? If so, it must be capitalized.  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "Portland Transit Mall" is the proper name, while "transit mall" is a common noun (i.e. Portland, the city... Portland Transit Mall, the transit mall)


 * Recommend linking Tilikum Crossing in the infobox image caption.  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I think since it's already in the lead, it's not necessary. Idk I've just been following the style of older FA articles (like Line 1 (Sound Transit))


 * Daily ridership parameter in infobox has it "as of", but lead says "in September 2019." In means that it carried 11,000 during that month, while as of means that it carried 11,000 from its opening up to 2019.  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Per the template's usage: "The template ... is used to mark potentially dated statements, and will add an article to the appropriate hidden sub-category of Category:Articles containing potentially dated statements. This allows editors to catalogue statements that may become dated over time."


 * Suggest linking At-grade railway and Elevated railway at the infobox "Character" parameter.  Gerald WL  07:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for picking this up! --truflip99 (talk) 08:03, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , you're welcome! That train looks awesome. Not the red one, of course.  Gerald WL  08:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I'll start reverse here, from Services to History, from short to long.

Service

 * "..supplemented by TriMet bus route 291–Orange Night Bus"-- that's the bus route name? "291–Orange Night Bus"? Aren't buses only marked by numbers?  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. TriMet likes to be unique in this way I think.
 * This is not remotely unusual in the United States. Many (maybe even a majority of) urban transit systems give both numbers and names to routes. I realize this is very unusual in Europe (according to my British friends), but it is very common in the United States (and Canada). – SJ Morg (talk) 10:49, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * "The Orange Line is the least busy MAX service"-- suggest changing "service" to "line".  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I use "service" instead of "line" because American light rail systems are unique in that lines frequently overlap and it just helps with differentiating that fact. Not a fan of them doing this either.


 * Ref 108 reads "Predicted riders not showing up". Of course, Oregonian! TriMet are not time travellers!  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed. The issue is, ridership predictions are used to ask for money from citizens and the US government to build these lines, and since TriMet couldn't meet its predictions after building the line, people were upset.
 * I've heard many things about US public transport. Especially New York--  Gerald WL  06:03, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Route

 * So the map caption has an external link. WP:ELPOINTS says that "external links should not be used in the body of an article", with "rare exceptions" and with suggestion of using Template:External media, or having it as a reference. Does this case fall under the rare exception?  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Nah, omitted.


 * "...although most northbound Orange Line trains through operate into the Yellow Line." Why the "through"?  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a rail term: Through train
 * , but it reads: "trains through". Shouldn't it be "through trains"?  Gerald WL  06:01, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * A "though train" (noun) "through operates" (phrasal verb) into another line. --truflip99 (talk) 06:14, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Duplicate ref 88.  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Where at?
 * , Stations para 1.  Gerald WL  01:12, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Found it! Thank you --truflip99 (talk) 04:33, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Multi images: trivial, but I recommend replacing the Southeast Bybee Boulevard image with South Waterfront/Southwest Moody's, as it is the median of the station list. This is trivial, though.  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree, but there aren't any good pics of that station...


 * All are commenced in 2015. Perhaps just merge them all?  Gerald WL  08:26, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Just following the style of other GA/FA articles
 * Hmm... but if you could make this more refreshed, why not? :)  Gerald WL  06:01, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair point. ✅ --truflip99 (talk) 06:27, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I would have another legend in the Key table, in white, that reads "Northbound travel only", if that is what white symbolizes.  Gerald WL  06:05, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * White/no color means both directions, as in normal service. --truflip99 (talk) 06:49, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , that would have to be noted. Otherwise people (like me) will think that unmarked stuff are northbounds.  Gerald WL  06:52, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Given the topic, I really don't think it's necessary. It's fair assumption for any station in any part of the world to be served by trains running bi-directionally unless otherwise noted. Plus if that were the case, I would have added a "↑" icon next to those stations and a "Northbound only" key to indicate that. Please note that MAX Yellow Line and MAX Red Line both achieved FA without this being necessary. --truflip99 (talk) 07:04, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , got it. I think I misread the article initially, assuming that it's southbound platform and not station.
 * Last thing I would suggest, is merging the yellow and green circles. After that I'll do a last checkup.  Gerald WL  07:39, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ I've already tried that in the two years I've been tweaking these tables, and trust me when I say it just doesn't look as good. :) Plus there is no wiki MOS to say what this should look like. truflip99 (talk) 08:44, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , roger that. Will do a last check; should be done soon as I read articles too fast in the last minute.  Gerald WL  08:51, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , roger that. Will do a last check; should be done soon as I read articles too fast in the last minute.  Gerald WL  08:51, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Early proposals to Clackamas County

 * Since it's referred to as "the Columbia Region Association of Governments", the abbreviation must be "the CRAG", not just "CRAG".  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Common usage omits the "the" in this case
 * The omission of "the" is fairly common when an initialism can be pronounced as a word, which applies here. The abbreviated name of this entity is commonly spoken as "crag" (but written CRAG, of course). – SJ Morg (talk) 10:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Link light rail.  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Suggest removing "regional government" after the word "Metro".  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I used to not have it, but previous reviewers have insisted on its use to avoid confusion. I moved it to precede "Metro" though.

Failed South/North Line

 * "That November, "nearly two-thirds" of Oregon voters"-- perhaps "Oregonian voters"?  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * "...to provide Oregon's local-area"-- Link Oregon?  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * May not be necessary as other GA/FA articles don't do this? Not quite sure about this one tbh, just following other styles.

Revival and funding

 * "Metro, TriMet, Clackamas County, the cities of Portland and Milwaukie, and in-kind"-- suggest removing "the cities of", and change "and" with a comma.  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Construction and opening

 * "By that July, the project had reached 50-percent completion." Suggest changing to 'By that July, the project had been completed by 50%." I'm personally not a fan of alphebatizing percents, but if that's preferred you may keep that part.  Gerald WL  13:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ I agree with you here. I've switched back and forth between spelling it out and not, just right now all of my articles spell it out. Do you know if there is a definitive wiki style for this? --truflip99 (talk) 19:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

To add, I think I'll have to remove the majority of your archived links as they are already archived in the Newsbank database, and it would effectively be an archive of an archive. --truflip99 (talk) 19:35, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , that would be fine. However if the URL has a rot potential, it's best to not remove it.  Gerald WL  06:26, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Final check
, this article is all good for GA. Just some more points:


 * Explanatory note c has an inappropriate boldface. Mind italicizing and unbolding, or just completely unbold?


 * Some sources need archive. They are ref: 32, 70, 83, 92, 93, and 99.
 * I will go ahead and do these once Wayback Machine stops lagging. Please note that archiving is not a pre-requisite to GA status. With that said, I always have archiving as part of my to-do list for articles that I eventually wish to push through to FA review. --truflip99 (talk) 16:38, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

 Gerald WL  11:28, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps can help with the archiving. I am only able to archive one source manually: Toolforge doesn't archive the 6 sources above, and the Wayback Machine lags my laptop when I process it.  Gerald  WL  11:30, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Are you still waiting on a pending item? Did I miss anything? --truflip99 (talk) 15:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , 'pologies the wait! I'm currently on mobile, so it's gonna be hard to GA it. Need to move to the desktop first, so be patient. By afternoon UTC+7 I'll push this up. Anyway, since you have the MAX article and the line articles all G or FA, dp you plan to make them a featured topic? Just wondering.  Gerald WL  01:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , I have erected the GA circle for this article. Congrats!  Gerald WL  14:36, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for the thorough review of this article. I'm quite impressed with the things you've caught having actively edited on WP for just the past year. Good luck on your projects here, and should you want any assistance please don't hesitate to leave me a message. And yes, I do plan to pursue Good/Featured Topic in the future, when I'm less lazy :D --truflip99 (talk) 18:59, 8 January 2021 (UTC)