Talk:MGTOW

Redirect
Redirect as an initialism to Men Going Their Own Way. clpo13(talk) 16:28, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) REDIRECT Men Going Their Own Way


 * MGTOW is also an acronym for Maximum gross takeoff weight. A redirect from this title to "maximum gross takeoff weight" has been requested at Articles for creation/Redirects. Mz7 (talk) 02:07, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * To add, it's clear to me that something should exist at this title (and it can probably be un-salted since Men Going Their Own Way actually exists now), but I'm not sure if it should be a redirect to Men Going Their Own Way, a redirect to Maximum gross takeoff weight, or a disambiguation page pointing to both pages. A Google News search primarily yields results related to Men Going Their Own Way, but a Google Scholar search yields primarily results related to maximum gross takeoff weight (with a few results related to Men Going Their Own Way). Mz7 (talk) 02:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Google Scholar:
 * "MGTOW" 116 hits
 * "MGTOW" -aviation -aircraft -airplane -plane -aeroplane 32 hits
 * "MGTOW" -men 83 hits
 * "maximum gross take-off weight" OR "maximum gross takeoff weight" 399 hits
 * "Men Going Their Own Way" 27 hits
 * -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 12:22, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Mgtow also exists and redirects to Maximum takeoff weight. So if something other than a redirect to Maximum gross takeoff weight is decided for this page, then Mgtow should also be treated accordingly. /wia 🎄 /tlk  03:19, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose this should only redirect to maximum takeoff weight or be a disambiguation page, it should not redirect to "Men Going Their Own Way" since that is WP:RECENTISM and is not the long term topic. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 06:16, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment MGTOW (Men's rights) already exists as a redirect, and is the disambiguated form unlinke mgtow which is undisambiguated. So matching the existing redirect, this should point to the aviation topic. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 06:23, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * NOTE see also the discussion at Talk:Men_Going_Their_Own_Way -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:23, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 *  Support Comment. The only significant issue is whether MGTOW should redirect to Maximum takeoff weight or to Men Going Their Own Way. Which is the primary topic? The first of these enjoys long-established usage as a technical term in aviation, and technical reference material is full of it. The second has recently erupted across the Internet to totally dominate search engine results, I checked both Google and DuckDuckGo with MGTOW -"Men Going Their Own Way" (note the minus) and the men's usage of MGTOW still massively dominated. These happen to be the two key arguments for establishing a primary topic, so at first sight we have a draw. We must turn to secondary criteria. Wikipedia statistics are muddied by the fact that Maximum gross takeoff weight is a redirect to Maximum takeoff weight, another venerable technical term, and many links will bypass the redirect. On that basis, both usages show significant traffic, with the pattern strongly demonstrating the long- vs. short-term usage pattern already mentioned. Google books reveals close to a dead heat between the two: . There are no other established criteria to go on, it's pretty much a stalemate. So let's look at the simple practicalities of dab linking. Men redirected to Maximum takeoff weight will be baffled as to why, whatever dab link we put there. Aero enthusiasts will at least appreciate the logic of the dab link. So on that basis - and on that basis alone - I support this propopsal. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:28, 30 December 2015 (UTC) [Updated 13:43, 31 December 2015 (UTC)]
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Many thanks to Steelpillow for his robust analysis of the prevalence of the two topics. Based on this, it seems that there is no primary topic. However, in situations where there is no primary topic, the usual procedure is to create a disambiguation page at that title, rather than use other criteria to select a page to redirect to. Accordingly, I have created MGTOW as a disambiguation page containing two entries. This has also removed the protection from the page, so now anyone may edit it. I have also redirected to it, and removed the hatnote from Maximum takeoff weight in the process. If anyone has questions about this, please let me know. Best — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 08:48, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that the disambiguation page is the best way to go, as now implemented. The key thing is whether readers can find the article that they are looking for and this is the best solution in this case. - Ahunt (talk) 12:53, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * A disambiguation page with only two referents is very un-Wikipedian. I can't tell if this is unprecedented or not, but it might be, so let me know if anyone knows of another such case.  Anyway, we're not supposed to do that.  Instead, we should send MGTOW to either Men Going Their Own Way (BTW - shouldn't that be "ways"?) or Maximum gross takeoff weight, whichever is primary, with a hatnote to the other.  Chrisrus (talk) 04:42, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It's what WP:PRIMARYTOPIC says to do. I quote: "If there is no primary topic, the term should be the title of a disambiguation page (or should redirect to a disambiguation page on which more than one term is disambiguated)." There are probably plenty of other DAB pages with only two entries around (although I don't know an efficient way to search for them). — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 04:55, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * A dissatisfying solution. It should be possible to determine WP:PRIMARYTOPIC eventually, and this seen as a mere temporary solution until that can be done.  Chrisrus (talk) 05:31, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Primary status is not set in stone. A year or so ago we would have found that maximum takeoff weight was the primary topic. This year it appears to be too even a match to make the call. Next year - who knows? &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:53, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * NOTE at the discussion at Talk:Men_Going_Their_Own_Way it has been determined that the group is not the primary topic of MGTOW. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:27, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Which one? There are many discussions there. Chrisrus (talk) 17:40, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The Formal Consensus Determining one, Requested Move 28 December 2015 -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 00:31, 14 January 2016 (UTC)