Talk:MV Liemba

The African Queen
Just a sidenote: I watched "The African Queen" the other day and the ship is usually referred to as Königin Luisa, which would equal "Queen Luisa" in English. I would edit it myself, but I'm not sure if my memory serves me right on this matter. --212.202.173.142 21:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Who salvaged the vessel?
Other sources credit the Belgians for initially salvaging the Liemba in 1916, docking her in Kigoma. Later in 1920, she sank again in a storm and was then salvaged again by the British, who gained control over the land after the 1919 Treaty of Versailles. 216.55.199.227 (talk) 22:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Von
There are indeed sources that use just 'Graf Gotzen' (or 'Graf Götzen' or 'Graf Goetzen' depending on their orthography) or another short form like 'Götzen' or similar. There are many more however that use 'Graf von Gotzen' or one of the equivalents:
 * Spencer Tucker - World War I: A Student Encyclopedia - 'At the beginning of World War I, three German gunboats—the Hedwig von Wissman, the Kingani, and the Graf von Götzen—controlled the lake.'
 * H. P. Willmott - The Last Century of Sea Power: From Port Arthur to Chanak, 1894-1922: Volume 1 - 'the Germans scuttled the Graf von Götzen when Belgian forces approached Kigoma,'
 * Edward Keble Chatterton - The "Königsberg" Adventure - 'a flotilla consisting of the Hedwig von Wissmann, the Kingani, the Graf von Gotzen'
 * Giles Foden - Mimi and Toutou Go Forth: The Bizarre Battle of Lake Tanganyika - 'GRAF VON GÖTZEN/LIEMBA Length: 220 feet Beam: 30 feet'
 * Everett Jenkins - Pan-African chronology III: A comprehensive reference to the Black quest for freedom in Africa, the Americas, Europe and Asia, 1914-1929 - 'Another ship, the Graf von Gotzen, was under construction. '
 * Sir Charles Prestwood Lucas - The Empire at war: Volume 4  - 'The Graf von Gotzen, of 850 tons, far larger than the other two vessels, in spite of her size shunned the open lake.'
 * E. Keble Chatterton - The Auxiliary Patrol - He therefore proceeded in the Graf von Gotzen, sending a lieutenant in command of the Wissmann''
 * R. H. Gibson - Three Years of Naval Warfare - 'This, the Graf von Gotzen, was'
 * Edmund Dane - British Campaigns in Africa and the Pacific, 1914-1918 - 'Graf von Gotzen then adopted the classic German manoeuvre of remaining in harbour'
 * Ross Anderson - The Forgotten Front: The East African campaign ; 1914-1918 - 'The much larger and well-armed Graf von Gotzen was supposed to sail in support'
 * Arthur Berriedale Keith - The Belgian Congo and the Berlin Act - 'after which defeat the last German steamer, the Graf von Gotzen,'
 * Henry Fitz Maurice Stacke - Military operations, East Africa - 'The Graf von Gotzen was eventually scuttled by the'
 * Hugh Wray McCann - Utmost Fish - 'Graf von Gotzen, 1,500 tons, 200 feet, 8 knots, armoured troopship, capacity 900, 37-millimetre Hotchkiss'
 * The Times History of the War - 'A third enemy vessel to be accounted for was the Graf von Gotzen, which the Belgian Ministry of the Colonies'
 * Peter Shankland - The Phantom Flotilla: The Story of the Naval Africa Expedition - 'the Graf von Gotzen which could transport seven or eight hundred troops'
 * David Bee - Our Fatal Shadows: A Story of German East Africa and Tanganyika - 'This left only the Graf von Gotzen - named after a former Governor'
 * K. Degryse, Christian Koninckx - Bijdragen Tot de Internationale Maritieme Geschiedenis - 'Il restait aux Allemands le seul s/s «Graf von Götzen»'
 * Hans-Jürgen von Arnim - Deutsches Soldatenjahrbuch 1988: Sechsunddreissigster Deutscher: Volume 36 - ' Der 67 m lange und 10 m breite Dampfer „Graf von Götzen" konnte am 9.'
 * Mededelingen: Volumes 17-19 - 'On sut dans la suite qu'il avait pour mission d'attirer les bateaux alliés vers le « Graf von Götzen »'
 * Ludwig Boell - Die Operationen in Ostafrika. Weltkrieg 1914-1918 - '»Graf von Götzen«), der bequem 800 bis 900 Menschen'

Images on postcards like this one and this one show that this is also an historic usage. I'm quite happy to acknowledge in the article the range of variants on the name used for the ship, and I've added the note as a compromise. Benea (talk) 21:15, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The Meyer Shipyard, and they should know it, clearly use the name without a "Von".. Plenty of other German-language sources call the ship "Graf Goetzen" ("oe" is just a different way to spell "ö")spiegel.de Die Welt Die Zeit. In German it's also a common way to use either the title "Graf" or the short form of "von", not both terms at the same time. However it's good to see you are finally accepting the variant. 87.188.201.125 (talk) 07:40, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I said I was happy to include the usage of the variant, what I am disappointed to see is that you are continually removing the dominant usage in the sources, and that includes the appearance of 'Graf von Gotzen' in German sources as well (see some of those listed above). Benea (talk) 12:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The correct name of the ship was Goetzen (exatly 'der' Goetzen, because the ship was masculine) and nothing else. If you want to control it, read the the official representation oft hte german sight of the war: Aßmann, Der Krieg zur See 1914 - 1918 Bd. 7 or better L.B. Cane, S.S. Liemba. In: Tanganyika Notes and Records 1947, S. 31] (PDF; 13,3 MB)(http://e-library.costech.or.tz/greenstone/collect/tanzania/index/assoc/HASH018d.dir/doc.pdf), who who translated the German documents in english. I also have two pictures, one of the bow of the Goetzen and one of a life ring. On both you only read Goetzen. Greetings--Ihnen (talk) 16:10, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Patrick Dougherty
In the seventies the Liemba was overhauled. Significant part of this should have been a man named Patrick Dougherty. I am looking for information about this man. Little is known about him, but the few is also contradictory: He was said to be Irish, but is said to have served in the Royal Navy (North Ireland?). He should have been marine engineer, but on the photos he is wearing the uniform of a navigator. He should have left for the Liemba wife and children and have been a heavy drinker and he should have become in 1978 the head of the shipyard in Kigoma. Does anybody know anything about this man? comment added by --Ihnen (talk) 06:02, 28 July 2013 (UTC)Ihnen

BBC
https://www.bbcglobalminds.com/S.aspx?s=814&r=j4Il3Ei1QS7eN6WL2Uj1p0&so=true&m=600001078&fromdetect=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.225.33.104 (talk) 23:57, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

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"Regular service ended in 2013"?
The Economist is under the impression it's still operating in 2017. Does anyone have access to the Maritime South West source for the statement that it was leaving service? 71.41.210.146 (talk) 20:23, 5 February 2017 (UTC)


 * According to the operator's site she still runs a weekly service; http://mscl.go.tz/liemba.html. Lard Almighty (talk) 08:50, 6 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Updated infobox and removed apparently false statement.  If anyone wants to check the source I just removed, it's
 * 71.41.210.146 (talk) 20:29, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 71.41.210.146 (talk) 20:29, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Service stopped in 2017. the Liemba is in Kigoma for repairs/maintenance. 193.190.112.194 (talk) 12:31, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Now a refurbishment will start soon.  2003:E7:B706:4932:1DD1:7F2B:FC66:9049 (talk) 14:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)