Talk:Ma clique

Not a self-declared state
Ma Hongbin, Ma Hongkui or Ma Bufang did not actually declare independence as a separate state. Each of them was involved in the chaotic civil wars of the 1910's - 1940's, switching sides between the Guominjun, Guomindang etc.

Ma Hongbin 馬鴻賓, ruler of Ningxia, was actually in Beijing until Cao Kun's presidency (1923-1924), even though he was the commander of the Ningxia Army. During the Second Zhili-Fengtian War Ma Hongkui's army was reorganized into a branch of Feng Yuxiang's Guominjun forces; in 1926 Ma Hongkui was appointed as the commander of the Fourth Route Army of the Guominjun by Feng. During the Central Plains War of 1930, Ma Hongkui fought for Chiang Kai-shek and was appointed commander of the 64th Division; upon capturing of Tai'an, Shandong he was promoted to commander of the 15th Army. It was in 1932 when Ma Hongkui was appointed Governor of Ningxia Province, and fought the communist forces in the Shaanxi-Ningxia area for the next several years up to all-out Japanese invasion in 1937. After the end of WW2, the Kuomintang-Communist civil war broke out anew, and Ma Hongkui fought for Chiang against the communists. In 1949, with communist victory certain, Ma Hongkui fled to Taiwan, then Los Angeles, where he died.

Ma Bufang 馬步芳, ruler of Qinghai, didn't actually rule anywhere until the 1930's. He was the son of Ma Qi 馬麒, who formed the Ninghai Army in Qinghai in 1915, and received civilian and military posts from the Beiyang Government in Beijing in that same year confirming his military and civilian authority in Qinghai. He sided with Feng Yuxiang's Guominjun until the Central Plains War, when he switched to the winning side, i.e. Chiang Kai-shek. Ma Qi died in 1931 and his power was succeeded by his brother Ma Lin 馬麟 (appointed Governor of Qinghai). Later on Ma Bufang rose with the help of Kuomintang involvement and forced Ma Lin to concede his position, in 1937. That was when Ma Bufang actually became Governor of Qinghai, with military and civilian powers, and stayed ruler of Qinghai until Communist victory in 1949. After this he fled to Egypt and Saudi Arabia and actually became ambassador of Nationalist China (i.e. Taiwan) to Saudi Arabia for some time.

Ma Hongkui 馬鴻逵, ruler of Gansu, was appointed Governor of Gansu in 1931. [I am still trying to find a detailed biography of him; however it appears other warlords, such as Ma Zhongying 馬仲英, were powerful in Gansu in the 1920's.]. Ma Hongkui was the only one of the three to switch to the Communist side at the end of the war, in September 1949. He stayed on in local government in the northwest until his death in 1960.

-- ran (talk) 01:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Brilliant summary of the Mas and a much better article! Thank you. -- Himasaram 11:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree but I think you may have gotten Ma Hung-pin/Hongbin 馬鴻賓 switched around with Ma Hongkui 馬鴻逵

Ma Hung-pin/Hongbin General

(1894-1960)


 * 1921 - 1928 Governor of Ningxia Province
 * 1930 Chairman of the Government of Nigxia Province
 * 1938 - 1945 General Officer Commanding LXXXI Corps
 * 1940 - 1941 Commander in Chief 17th Army Group

Ma Hung-kuei/Ma Hongkui General

(1892-1970)


 * 1923 - 1926 Commander of the Ningxia Army
 * 1926 - 1930 Commander of the Fourth Route Army of the Guominjun
 * 1930 Commander of the Nationalist 64th Division
 * 1930 - 1931 Commander of the Nationalist 15th Army
 * 1932 - 1949 Chairman of the Government of Ningxia Province
 * 1938 Commander in Chief 17th Army Group
 * 1938 - 1941 General Officer Commanding 168th Division
 * 1944 Commander in Chief 17th Army Group

I dont think either were in charge of Gansu.

I have found these governing Gansu so far. No Ma.


 * 1925 Military-Governor of Gansu Province - Feng Yu-hsiang
 * 1929 - 1930 Chairman of the Gansu Provincial Council - Sun Lian-chung
 * 1931 - 1932 Chairman of Gansu Provincial Council - Sun Wei-ju
 * 1933 - 1934 Chairman of Gansu Provincial Council - Teng Pao-shan
 * 1934 - 1935 Chairman of Gansu Provisional Council - Chu Shao-liang
 * 1935 - 1937 Chairman of Gansu Provincial Council - Yu Hsueh-chung
 * 1937 Chairman of the Government of Gansu Province - Ho Yao-tsu
 * 1940 - 1946 Chairman of the Government of Gansu Province - Ku Cheng-lun
 * 1940 - 1946 Chairman of the Government of Gansu Province - Ku Cheng-lun
 * 1940 - 1946 Chairman of the Government of Gansu Province - Ku Cheng-lun

comment?Asiaticus 04:41, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Question
"Ma Buqing and Ma Bufang also were brothers", but redirect of both only to Ma Bufang!!!Savkovich Y (talk) 10:17, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, currently all we have to say about Ma Buqing is in the article about his more famous brother. Someone ought to split it off into a separate article of course; each brother is notable enough on his own. Vmenkov (talk) 11:08, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

anon ip addresses, stop putting the fake flag into the aritlce
this file, File:Flag of the Ma clique.svg is from, which is not a reliable source since it is self published, and in addition to that, it is full of misinformation claiming that Ma Hongkui fled to turkey (in reality, he fled to taiwan, then the united states, he had zero connections with turkey). And ma bufang never proclaimed himself sultan. And the Qinghai was not ruled by Ma Bufang until 1937, the website says 1911, in addition, the grammer on the website is horrific, an example here- "together with his brother Ma Buqing, and has the power until 1950 when it fell to Saudi Arabia because of the communist advance." (would anyone mind explaining how the province "fell to Saudi Arabia", if the communists took over it?)Дунгане (talk) 21:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


 * do NOT add that flag to this articleДунгане (talk) 21:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

number of troops
"31000 Mohammedan troops (Kansu, Ninghsia, Chinghai) 40000 Communist army (Kansu"

http://books.google.com/books?id=foATAAAAIAAJ&q=31000+Mohammedan+troops+(Kansu,+Ninghsia,+Chinghai)+40000+Communist+army+(Kansu&dq=31000+Mohammedan+troops+(Kansu,+Ninghsia,+Chinghai)+40000+Communist+army+(Kansu&hl=en&ei=qm_sTavcGIObtwfE6aTCAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA

06:58, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ma clique governing policies
http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA216#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA217#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA218#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA225#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA226#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=D45tt_cSGUYC&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 04:49, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=LAdPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ak0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3455,4121924&dq=ma+mohammedan+china+japanese&hl=en

war against japan
Chiang calling muslims for war against japan

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UKcxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QKgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6681,3669592&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xR5PAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VU0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6721,4141938&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=008uAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yn4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3060,7053601&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bGNeAAAAIBAJ&sjid=H2ENAAAAIBAJ&pg=2382,5204911&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uRY_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=QE8MAAAAIBAJ&pg=5764,2068353&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=680gAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jmoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4223,2914228&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

Japanese invasion

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=1OQdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DkwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1464,2382187&dq=ma+mohammedan+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xSdPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8B8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3210,5435684&dq=ma+mohammedan+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OmoiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hasFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1206,1832229&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=z8dYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a5UDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4785,3558227&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JbNQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RSIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7054,377193&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ga9CAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UasMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6882,793945&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=8J1YAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B0UNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1489,855124&dq=mohammedans+china+japanese&hl=en

Rajmaan (talk) 06:33, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Biographical excerpts
Page 354 and 355

"A Mahometan and son of late Ma Fu-hsiang. ... Son of the late Ma Fu-lin and cousin of Ma Hung-k'uei ( y.c)."

http://books.google.com/books?ei=biaxUJmbEqa-0QHEloEQ&id=Rz9DAQAAIAAJ&dq=ma+hung+ping+suiyuan+japanese&q=mahometan#search_anchor

Rajmaan (talk) 20:00, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Ma Qianling's family Y chromosome haplogroup DNA
O1-P293

SMGF value (FTDNA Std) for DYS 452 is 31

http://www.ysearch.org/haplosearch_view.asp?haplo=Unknown&viewuid=87YQE&p=0

One of Ma Hongkui's sons used an English name, it was Albert Ma (born in China 1926- died in America 1997)

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/China/default.aspx?section=yresults

http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,3500.msg125253.html#msg125253

21:34, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

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