Talk:Mace Windu/Archive 2

Powers & Abilities section
I would humbly suggest that the "powers and abilities" section be removed; it speaks of the character as if he is a real person, which violates rules against "in-universe" material. Besides, the stuff about his lightsaber technique and such is covered in the "Expanded Universe" section. Treybien 17:32, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

[Untitled]
Where did the idea that Samuel jackson himself wanted a purple weapon? There is no mention where this information came from. Also the other request, the one that says he not"die like a punk" is very suspect. The footnote just leads to his page on IMDB and there is no such mention there. Maybe it should be deleted? Either that ot there should be better mention of where this info came from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.228.218 (talk) 15:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I just added that citation, and imbd is quite a reoutable source. I believe the original quotation are sidenotes in the commentary for one of the films, but regardless I can provide more sources if you need. If you use your ctrl+F you can find itProfitoftruth85 (talk) 01:03, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Unknown problem
on the main article in the character section where is lists his postion and species it comes up as unknown i've tried deleting and readding the information but it still continually frustrates me if anyone has any insight into what may be the problem please correct it. --danieljackson 22:37, 8 jan. 2007


 * There was an error in the character template, a pipe was in the wrong place. I've moved it and now things are fine. AulaTPN 10:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Note I put on the archive
I removed all of the comment of Mace Windu being alive from this talk page when I archived it was just spam because George Lucas said he was dead so please don't bring it back up it might end up with people vandalizing the article saying he is alive. thank you

I put this on the archive please don't bring this back up. Thanks--Team6and7 22:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

The Endless Mace vs. Palpatine Debate
I think as long as it is mentioned that there is a debate, and that no one knows the facts, thats all we really need. We don't need a pro and con section. But I did revise the section to include a neutral pov. Basically that no one knows either way. Arguing is pointless until Lucas has some say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lollipopfop (talk • contribs) 23:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC) Im not sure it matters who originated the question, as it is a very often asked question. But its fair to have a neutral description. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lollipopfop (talk • contribs) 23:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I cleaned up the section about whether Mace or Palpatine was winning the duel before Anakin intervened. I am actually the one who originated the blurb a while back and have watched how it developed over time. A few months ago, the section had evolved nicely and gave balanced information for both sides of the debate. I have made revisions now because the section has gotten messy and disorganized. The section was intended to describe the debate and to be concise and to the point. But instead it seems like the section has ballooned into a forum for arguing for or against the different sides of the debate and advancing personal theories and analyses, so I wanted to take it back to its original purpose.

-I removed the "most fans believe..." wording because the accuracy of it is debatable and because I've seen the wording used in favoring both sides. Unless it can be backed up by precise statistics of all Star Wars fans, I'd rather just say "some" fans believe one side and "some" fans believe the other side.

-I removed the part about earlier drafts of the script suggesting that Palpatine threw the fight, because only the final script and final film count. The earlier drafts would be more relevant in a discussion about the writing process of Episode III.

-Before revising the section, the section had become skewed towards being pro-Palpatine, with pro-Mace examples being deleted while pro-Palpatine examples were discussed at length. The mention of the official character profiles have now been re-inserted to bring balance back to the section.

-I also reorganized the composition of the section to make it read in a more organized way.

JerryKong2000 18:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * On a side note, you made the right choice on the "most fans believe..." removals- here's the policy on such "weasel words". Spread the good word. ;) --DarthBinky 15:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, "some fans believe..." is no more acceptable than "most fans believe..." The objection to those terms is that they make unsourced statements about an unquantified and unspecified number of anonymous people.  For this topic to justify its inclusion on the page, it must include specific cites that meet the criteria for reliable sources.--Nalvage 02:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops, yeah, I should probably have read all of what he said before I responded- I thought he just said that he removed it and left it at that. That's why I mentioned the "weasel wording" policy.--DarthBinky 02:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Nalvage, DarthBinky, I understand your point.

The reason this section was written in the first place was because people kept screwing around with the Episode III portion within Mace's main history, changing wording to promote one side over the other, and essentially turning that portion into a forum of sorts. NPOV got left in the dust. You can also see how large the debate is if you look at the official Star Wars community forum and other fan forums. It's amazing how long the threads go. The debate was significant enough to get officially addressed on Star Wars Homing Beacon # 139. Here on Wikipedia, the constantly changing wording over the duel is an example of a large fan debate spilling over into an encyclopedia-type article. Therefore, I thought a separate section describing the debate was the cleanest way to keep Mace's main history on topic and at the same time acknowledge the debate.

I've now cited and linked Homing Beacon #139 as a direct point of origin for this section. It's an official source, so I think it's a good way to validate the section. I was thinking of citing fan forums, but they get too numerous and it will still come off like "original research". Let me know what you think.

JerryKong2000 16:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

As for the part about Mace possibly surviving after falling out the window, I didn't write it. But that debate always seems to get included in the article, so I've just left it in. If anybody is knowledgeable about that debate, go ahead and work with it.

JerryKong2000 17:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi JerryKong2000. I appreciate how frustrating things can get when you're up against warring segments of fandom.  Looks like that Homing Beacon is a good source though, nice work.  Re: the Mace-survival thing... I don't know nearly enough to take a crack at sourcing it or cleaning it up. My preference would be to just delete the thing and keep deleting it each time it gets reinserted without a reliable source. Annoying to have to do if it crops up a lot though.--Nalvage 03:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So that you know- there seems to be an edit in the "Windu's death" portion that is unsubstantiated, claiming there is an Episode 7 and that Windu lived. A member of this site may want to rectify that, as it would seem visitors are unable to. The Chibi Kiriyama
 * The page isn't protected, so anyone can edit it- and it seems someone has already fixed it. Cheers --DarthBinky 02:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

The argument that Palpatine showed weakness against Mace isn't very solid. How did he show weakness? By having his force lighting deflected back at him. How did he know Mace was going to do that? What if Mace just absorbed it into his light saber, as Obi Won had against Dooku. Or if Mace got hit? He shot at Mace at point blank range. So basically Palpatine foresaw that he would have his force lightning deflected back at him by Mace, making him look weak even though returning force lightning with a light saber had never been seen before. Just doesn't add up well. Devilxhlywood 19:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that Windu had gained the upper hand. I mean, Its not like Palpatine had anything to loose. How would he have known that Skywalker would join him? It makes no sense. Darthan the destroyer 14:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Where do people always get this from. The force lightning being reflected back at him didn't scar him. That isn't what made him look like that. Listen to the commentary on the Revenge of the Sith DVD....And I quote "The strain of all this exertion is what's transforming him" Abalu 07:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)Abalu.
 * The commentators on the DVD are clearly discussing the exertion of fighting with Mace Windu. A second before Lucas is talking about the deflection of the force lightning back to Palpatine. Dmoon1 16:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Lucas was talking about something he added to the scene later. He said nothing about lightning scarring Palpatine. See....this is what I mean.  How can someone argue with something as simple as "exertion is what's transforming him"  It's pretty simple.  I mean, I know some people like to even argue the interpretation...but there's nothing to interprete there....It's plain as day.

@ Destroyer: He sensed that Skywalker was on his side. That makes sense. Windu managed to disarm Palpatine by kicking him. But if he really would have beaten Palpatine, then the lastter wouldn´t be able to throw Windu over the edge with that ease. And not to mention that Palpatine is equal in fighting skills to Yoda, who is known as the strongest Jedi, even above Windu.77.11.172.49 (talk) 14:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Problem
Why is it that the Affiliation portion of Mace Windu's infobox isn't appearing? I edit the page a couple of times to add a few things so that the affiliation section would be filled up but for some reason it retains the "Unknown". Can someone fix this please?
 * Nevermind. I found the coding error and fixed it. -- Victor  [talk]  [[Image:Ekh-faust-foto.png|15px]] 09:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Some of the links under lightsaber combat redirect to pages that don't exist and go strait to the general lightsaber site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.240.179.177 (talk) 23:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Endless debate redux
Palpatine isn't scarred he is just showing the ravages of using the dark side, isn't he? I don't think there is a scar like one made by a weapon on his face at all. Its his entire face looking much older. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.228.218 (talk) 15:55, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The page was still not satisfactory to me, so I went on and made a lot of changes. In particular I tried to acknowledge all sides of the 2 debates (Did Palpatine lose intentionally? What scarred his face?) without preference for one. Good? Bad? Any improvements? -- Solberg 03:05, 7 June 2007 (UTC)Solberg


 * Regarding inclusion of the "Mace's Regrets" sentence, I'm not sure it belongs in a section titled "Appearances in the Films". If it is included, despite not being included in the films proper, then it should be called out as being established in later fiction.  Powers T 22:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, but perhaps renaming the section itself is better? It's part of the ROTS novel afterall, so it's definitely not part of the "expanded universe" section for instance.  I can add a disclaimer to the sentence, noting that this was elaborated in the novelization, but then it becomes inconsistent with the title of the section. -- Solberg 00:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)Solberg


 * Actually the novelizations are part of the EU, AFAIK. I think a disclaimer would be fine, if folks feel it's necessary to have the description at all.  Powers T 01:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm I haven't checked any other sources yet but indeed novelization falls under EU according to the Wikipedia article Expanded Universe. I guess it must be that I'm used to hearing EU associated with the post-Episode 6 storyline (eg the Clone emperor, the twins, and the Yuuzhan Vong stuff).  Over time it must have conflated.  -- Solberg 02:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)Solberg

In-universe
Anyone seriously interested in improving the article should consider adding some real world related info, e.g. regarding the concept, creation, and/or function of the character within the Star Wars narrative etc. Please consult our writing about fiction guideline, which also includes a list of exemplary articles.

There are currently three featured articles on Star Wars characters: Palpatine, Padmé Amidala, and Jabba the Hutt. What sets them aside from most of the other SW character articles is the effort to write from the real world perspective. Pay particular attention to paragraphs like Jabba the Hutt, Palpatine, and Padmé Amidala.

Also take a look at Darth Vader, which despite its lack of reliable, published third-party secondary sources features interesting sections on e.g. #Character creation and concepts and Darth Vader as a #Cultural figure.

Even though reliable sources may be tough to come up with, any effort to introduce coherently written real world aspects will be greatly appreciated, because it contributes to the depth of the article and accurate coverage of the topic, and thereby makes for an improved reading experience and increases the encyclopedic value of the article.

—AldeBaer 15:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Death
Darth Vader isn't shown to die either, is he alive too? I think its pretty clear that Mace died. We see the see through ghost of Mace standing beside Obi Wan, so he is for a fact dead.

Would anyone object to adding a word like "presumably" before "to his death"? Since they don't show him die, Jedi have been known to use the force to survive massive falls, and since losing an arm in the Star Wars series is apparently just an excuse to get a nice metal one, wouldn't it be OR to some extent to claim that he's certainly dead? Eric Sieck (talk) 08:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't object to as I have thought that this should read something like that. I know alot of people do not agree but I have never seen a good explaination. I hope someone has one...--Vertigo315 (talk) 13:44, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Look, as far as we know now, Palpatine killed him. Unless Lucas Arts says otherwise, we are not changing that part of the artivle. Lightman2 (talk) 09:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * We? I'm not going to change it back, but...who do you claim to speak for besides yourself?Eric Sieck (talk) 20:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * By "we" I mean us i.e. everyone who edits this article. You know what they say, there's no "I" in team. Lightman2 (talk) 09:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

We should not add any words that deliver ambiguity, just say he was forced out the window. Canonically, Lucas has stated that Windu was to die in the franchise, but until someone can get a source, we don't presume anything.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 20:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The databanks on star wars.com say he died fighting Palpatine, is that enough68.43.207.114 (talk) 23:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good enough for me.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 00:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I know he died here, but you would think that something as simple as a defenestration wouldn't kill the number 2 Jedi in the galaxy. Oh well, if that's what George Lucas wants, that's what George Lucas gets. Superslacker87 (talk) 19:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"Darth Vader isn't shown to die either, is he alive too? I think its pretty clear that Mace died. We see the see through ghost of Mace standing beside Obi Wan, so he is for a fact dead." That's Darth Vader standing next to him. Besides, in the Special Edition (don't know which one, but I have it), it's made clear that it's Anakin's ghost. As for Mace Windu dying, I refuse to believe he's truly dead (as with Plo Koon). It's very easy to believe he could have used the Force to slow his fall--I mean, in Episode II, doesn't Anakin fall from a speeder and survive? Sadly, there's nothing explicitly stating that he's alive (as of yet).Venku Tur&#39;Mukan (talk) 21:48, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Then again, if Mace Windu (and Plo Koon) both learned how to become one with the Force, and still able to interact with the "real world," then... But anyway, should we stick the word "presumably" in there? Venku Tur&#39;Mukan (talk) 21:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Mace Windu and Plo Koon are both stated to be dead. There is no room for discussion. Windu was shocked by Palpatines lightnings so he was paralysed for a longer moment, what Anakin was not when jumping from the speeder. There is no way he could have stopped his fall in that status. Besides that the official script even says that Windu´s dead. And Darth Vader was indeed shown to die in Episode 6.77.11.172.49 (talk) 14:42, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Copyright
I found this in Wookipedia: "In addition, the prop department replaced the activation plate stud with a plate reading "BMF" (Bad Mother Fucker)[29] in reference to Jackson's character in Pulp Fiction, Jules, who has the phrase on his wallet." Would putting those exact words in the arcticle count as copyright infringment, or doesn't it matter because it's from another Wiki website? Lightman2 (talk) 11:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Shatterpoint
Why is there such a lengthy verbose description of the events that unfold in this story? Not only is it overlong and too detailed, but the article's subject is Windu, not his exploits. All that is necessary is a brief mention of Shatterpoint.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 18:08, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I looked at it, and you have a point, it definitely improves the articles readability —Preceding unsigned comment added by Profitoftruth85 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I just tried pruning the synopsis, but it is horribly cumbersome and detailed so I gave up. I really don't feel it belongs in the article. It would be more appropriate for article on Shatterpoint itself. Kinda crufty. I won't remove it until I hear thoughts from others, but as it stands it really staunches the flow of the article. Besides, the main points of Shatterpoint are briefly mentioned in the previous paragraph, so it's also out of place.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 18:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

???
Why is there a picture of Barack Obama followed by the text "Often leaving the Star Wars realm to come and make speeches, he has recently gained so much popularity that he has earned the title of 'president elect.'"??? I'm no expert on the subject, but I don't think this is correct. 204.60.138.110 (talk) 21:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

death and pretend.
the bit about him dying is not so. There has been a couple of books since written which describe his life after the incident. Also, i think making the assumption that, in the film, he is fakeing his weakness is stepping over the boundry into 'interpretation of a fictional characters mind and intention'. We all know he is strong, as written in the books, but it is clear that we will never know the extent to which he goes to convert annikan.Stakingsin (talk) 11:23, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

There have been no official books that say he has survived. All canonical sources call him dead. Even Lucas himself stated that. And I doubt you really have read those books, because you don´t even know how to write the name "Anakin". There is no way Windu could have survived. Because he was paralysed when he felt down. And Windu hasn´t faked anything. It was Palpatine who faked weakness.77.11.172.49 (talk) 14:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Clone Wars (series
Is it me, or does the Clone Wars "cartoon"s CG version of Mace Windu look like Baron Samedi from Live and Let Die?

More precise
"Windu gains the upper hand in winning the lightsaber part of the entire duel"

I don´t think that´s precise enough. He doesn´t seem superior, just equal to Palpatine. He just kicked Palpatine, who fell down and dropped his lightsaber. And he is not a greater wordsman than Yoda. But probably stronger than Dooku, who is inferior. I don´t know why the novel tells something different. If he weren´t, he wouldn´t be Sidious apprentice. Yoda has ever been ment to be the strongest of all Jedi. Not to mention that Lucas didn´t have "Vapaad" in mind, when he wrote the script to episode 3.77.11.172.49 (talk) 14:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

quid pro quo
According to an interview on the Late Show with David Letterman on May 13, 2005, the character's purple lightsaber was a personal request from Jackson to Lucas as a quid pro quo for appearing in the films, as well as a way of making the character unique and easily distinguishable.[4] How is it a quid pro quo? Unless he did the film for free, it was not a quid pro quo. It was just one of his requests/conditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.198.202.2 (talk) 12:24, 30 January 2017 (UTC)