Talk:Macedonian Canadians

Picture
Colorized version, Bulgarian flag clearly visible. . The church is definitely Bulgarian. Mr. Neutron 18:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's some irony, isn't it -- L a v e o l  T 18:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, and the same picture still says first macedonian church in Canada. Uuttyyrreess 18:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it is colorized from the original, so that on can see the "Macedonian" caption is a fake. Mr. Neutron 19:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The original caption says it was under a Russian archbishop, so they could be Russian Flags Uuttyyrreess 19:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

They both look the same if Black and white Uuttyyrreess 19:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * False. The blue of the Russian flag is much darker than the green of the Bulgarian flag. The middle band of the Bulgarian flag is slightly brighter than the bottom band, corresponding to the brigntness in the picture. Mr. Neutron 19:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The bottom line is that they were Macedonians from Macedonia who built the Church under the Bulgarian Orthodox Church with a Russian Archbishop. It might have been a joint church with Macedonians-Bulgarians-Russians, but it was built by Macedonians. It wasn't until later that macedonians built there churches under the Macedonian Orthodox Church after becoming independent, but before that the built their churches under Bulgarian, Serbian, And Russian Churches. Uuttyyrreess 19:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So you say it was a Bulgarian church now - finally. By the way why did you say you were Bulgarian on my talk page? I've being wondering for some time now and finally got to asking you -- L a v e o l  T 19:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Russian flag"? It was not in use then. Try the flag of the Russian Empire. [[Image:Romanov Flag.svg|100px]]. Mr. Neutron 19:34, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * it was in use, try Flag of the Russian Empire 1883-1917 Uuttyyrreess 19:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

BTW you could stop switching accounts now, we already know you're the same person. Uuttyyrreess 19:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, we are different. You should know, because you created 3 accounts in a single day. And by the way, even so, I dont see any "Macedonian flags" being waved, just Bulgarian, possibly Russian. Mr. Neutron 19:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

What was wrong with the picture this time, it was according to the caption Uuttyyrreess 20:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The caption is fake, that is whats wrong. Mr. Neutron 20:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * even the bottom part? Uuttyyrreess 20:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said, it is faked. Mr. Neutron 20:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thats what you say though, there is no reliable proof to justify your answer Uuttyyrreess 20:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Try to find a neutral and reliable source which describes it as "Macedonian" church. http://www.macedonianhistory.ca will not do. Mr. Neutron 20:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Canadian Encyclopedia: ''Macedonians belong to the Eastern Orthodox branch of Christianity. They established SS. Cyril and Methody Church in Toronto in 1910. It united immigrants from many different villages into a single religious community.'' Uuttyyrreess 20:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1910? I thought it was 1911. Try again. Mr. Neutron 20:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

WTF??? You try again, what wrong with the Canadian Encyclopedia?Uuttyyrreess 20:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I can present a government source which descibes it as Macedono-Bulgarian church. Labeling it as Macedonian is wrong. Mr. Neutron 20:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Then upload a pic without the label Uuttyyrreess 20:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Why doesn't the one on the church contain the arms? Frightner 20:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The coat of arms was not in universal use. Mr. Neutron 14:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I guess they were Russian Flags after all. Uuttyyrreess 20:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No it was not, read carefully my comment above. Mr. Neutron 14:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe because the one with the arms is the flag of Kingdom of Bulgaria and the other is this of ethnic Bulgarians - what I mean is that the Bulgarian flag changed in time, but what remained was its colours - white, green and red. You're forgetting that we are talking about Bulgarians that emigrated from Macedonia and not from Kingdom of Bulgaria. Actually I,too, found a source that says 1910 as founding year of the church - it describes it Bulgarian though. There is no doubt that this is the same church which as I see it should be called Bulgaro-Macedonian or Macedono-Bulgarian or something of the sort - it would correspond well with the article itself. -- L a v e o l  T 22:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you according to my recent findings. The following sources both claim the church to be "Macedonian-Bulgarian" or "Bulgarian-Macedonian" . The second source, even though labeling the church as Macedonian-Bulgarian, specifically refers to the peoples as "Macedonians". I would assume the church was a joint organization between ethnic Macedonians and Bulgarians. Frightner 22:34, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The church is Macedonian. When the ethnic Macedonians came to Canada the Macedonian church was not independent yet so they had to make it with an official church so they chose the Bulgarian one, it was only a formality. Anyone that was there at the time will tell you that there was not a single Bulgarian at the church. If it was Bulgarian then why does it have Macedonian in front of its name? If it was Bulgarian then this would not be necessary. In order for the Macedonians to make a church they had to make it with a recognized orthodox church, that’s all that it was. About the flags, they are obviously Russian. Alexander the great1 02:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No it was not Russian flag, read carefully my comment above. Mr. Neutron 14:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Your picture is fake. You have made a fake picture which shows that they were actually Russian flags. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander the great1 (talk • contribs)
 * Wrong, the caption is fake. Read comments above for the brightness of the blue in the Russian flag and the green of the Bulgarian flag before saying any more nonsense. Mr. Neutron 16:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The caption is not fake, your picture is fake and full of nonsense. Here is a more accurate representation of what the church looked like that day. The Russian flag is clearly visible.[]Alexander the great1 18:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The caption is fake and my sources prove it. As for the Russian flag, you are definitely color-blind. Mr. Neutron 18:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Alexander the great1, do not fake pictures. You think you can just smear a little blue in the middle in the image and make it appear as if it was the russian flag to begin with? Pathetic. Mr. Neutron 18:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You obviously do not have a lot of experience dealing with images because it is obvious that the image you provided was colored afterwards. As I pointed out you did not color the flag well enough []. I simply corrected your picture to make it more accurate. Alexander the great1 18:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said, I am not suprised it comes from you, to smear some blue in the true color reconstruction to make it appear as if it was the russian flag. Mr. Neutron 18:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So now you are admitting that your image was a “reconstruction”, that is a first step. You provided your “reconstruction” and I reconstructed yours to make it more accurate.Alexander the great1 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You did not reconstruct anything, you just smeared some blue. So, the bushes on the side of the church are also blue in color? Nice vegetation you got there in Canada :). Mr. Neutron 18:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The difference between your picture and mine is that you claimed that yours was real and you even said “I have not heard one valid argument as to why the flag shown in the picture is not Bulgarian”. You tried to trick people into believing that your picture was genuine while from the start I said that my picture was only a representation. You have just provided another example of an attempt to fake history. Alexander the great1 18:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have never claimed the picture is real, just "colorized" and "reconstructed", on the other hand your version is blatantly falsified. Mr. Neutron 19:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * “Colorized version” means color photograph not reconstructed. Mine is not falsified because I never said it was real, it is a correction of your falsified picture. Alexander the great1 19:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am sorry you seem to have deficiencies in idiomatic English. I am not continuing with your trolling. Mr. Neutron 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Coat of arms
Can someone explain to me why the Canadian flag of the time is also shown without its coat of arms? Mr. Neutron 14:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC) Btw I have not heard one valid argument as to why the flag shown in the picture is not Bulgarian. Mr. Neutron 14:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Neutron the flag in the picture is the British one. Because Canada was not fully autonomous at the time. But thanks for pointing out the flag because it is proof that your picture is fake. []
 * The flag is not the british one, as the segment occupies the upper left corner only. It is a Canadian colonial flag, which lacks a coat of arms. Mr. Neutron 18:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It is British can you not see the cross going threw it []Alexander the great1 18:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said before, this is the british flag on the upper left corner of the Canadian colonial flag, and the coat of arms is missing in the remainder of the red banner. Mr. Neutron 19:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The flags are not the same, you did not color them well enough. Your picture is a blue flag with a red dot in the middle. It is obviously not the same.Alexander the great1 16:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Do not erase sources which dispute the "Macedonian" church. Even the canadian encyclopedia lists the church as "Macedonian-Bulgarian", Mr. Neutron 16:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Removed disputed image
According to Bulgarian government sources it is "Macedono-Bulgarian", the caption is disputed. . Mr. Neutron 13:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC) Also according to the highly cited Multicultural Canada:. Mr. Neutron 13:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MacedoniansProtest.jpg
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BetacommandBot 05:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Move
This page should be moved back to its original title of Macedonian Canadians. Macedonian Canadian and Macedonian Candians have many more google hits than this title.  Balkan Fever  08:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I second that motion. Köbra Könverse 13:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Even so, the word "ethnic" (seeing as "Slav" is "offensive") should appear somewhere per the main article location, to distinguish from other groups of Macedonian Canadians. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I double Kekrops and let me turn your attention to the fact that this way you exclude all the people that are from Ethnic Macedonian descent. Most of them are second or third generation of people that emigrated to the country and can hardly be described as pure Ethnic Macedonians. -- L a v e o l  T 13:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What are you two on about? Who, besides you, mentioned ethnicity? Or anything for that fact. Before you go babbling on about whether or not we find the word "Slav" offensive, you should consider asking "why" BalkanFever suggested a move. Capisce? Köbra Könverse 00:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What are you on about? If this article isn't about a specific Slavic ethnic group possessing Canadian citizenship, what is it about? Certainly not about these Macedonian Canadians. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * There you have it, you just said yourself that the article implies ethnicity, so why the disambiguation? Macedonian Canadians is enough, as everyone except for Greeks, ofcourse, use it as an ethnic term. If I were you, I wouldn't bother contradicting myself anymore. Move the article and if you have no other affairs to meddle in, do some origami or something. Köbra Könverse 09:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The article doesn't imply ethnicity; it is entirely about ethnicity, and the title should reflect that. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 10:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh my friggin' God. If the article is about the ethnic group, which it is, Why have "Ethnic" Macedonian Canadians? If the article was referring to citizens from Greek Macedonia and they weren't "Slavomacedonian", as you like to say, then they would be ethnically Greek, no? Therefore, as the article is specifically about the ethnic group, "Ethnic" should be omitted. Jesus, the people you have to deal with... I have nothing else to say, except; I rest my case. Köbra Könverse 11:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Laveol, there is no "pure" anything. And no, Kekrops, this is not about offence, or disambiguation even, but about the common English term. The real world calls them "Macedonian Canadians", it doesn't call your friends "Macedonian Canadians", it calls them "Greek Canadians". Back to Laveol, we are not excluding the people who are born in Canada - this term applies to them more than it does to their migrant parents and grandparents.  Balkan Fever  11:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, and how? You mean they feel like Ethnic Macedonians? -- L a v e o l  T 12:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * First you had Macedonian Slavs moved to Macedonians (ethnic group) because you found the term Slav "offensive". Then you said Skopjans was "offensive", even when used by individual editors on talk pages as an alternative to the self-identifying term which they find offensive. Now you reject even the "ethnic" qualifier in favour of plain "Macedonian". I suppose the natural conclusion is to move Macedonians (ethnic group) to plain Macedonians. And then you say you're not monopolizing the name. Whatever. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 12:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm responding to Laveol, because there's no point responding to the troll. Maybe not as much as the ones in RoM, but they do. That's why they are Macedonian Canadians (i.e. Macedonians + Canadians), not just Macedonians living in Canada.  Balkan Fever  12:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * How about coming up with a valid argument for a change, instead of your characteristic vulgarity? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 12:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * KEKP-Omega-Fork, do you read any comments or do you just skim through them? As far as I can tell, you haven't replied to any "valid arguments" we have made, whereas we have responded to your seemingly nonsensical construction of words above, accordingly. I'm only going to say thing once more, because you still have your head in never-Neverland; as "Macedonian" implies a strictly ethnic term in the title (which you admitted) why make it so obvious as to put "Ethnic" at the beginning? Hey, let's put "Ethnic" in front of Greek Americans, you know, incase people become confused. Better yet, let's create an article about Cretan Americans. Think about it, it's not hard. Köbra Könverse 13:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you read English? I admitted nothing of the sort. My observation that the article is about a Slavic ethnic group living in Canada pertained to the content, not the title, and was in response to your suggestion that ethnicity was somehow irrelevant. In fact, "Macedonian" is about as far from a "strictly ethnic" term as you can get. (Hint: if you can, count the number of entries under the "In demography" section.) That's precisely the point. If you can't understand that, you can't be helped. As for your "valid arguments", you're going to have to help me locate them in the text. So far, all that is visible to the naked eye is an inane invocation of Google, and your WP:OSE observation that Greek Americans lacks the word "ethnic". The Google "argument" falls short at Macedonians (ethnic group), which isn't at Macedonians despite your best efforts, so why should it have any relevance here? As for why we don't need to call Greek Xs "ethnic" Greeks, the answer is simple; there is no group other than the ethnic that uses that name for itself, let alone, as in this case, a group bigger than the ethnic. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 13:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm all for simple titles. These people are called "Macedonian Canadians", that's where the article should be. I also think the discussion about in what sense that's an "ethnic" characteristics, or in what sense it covers second-/third-generation people, is a red herring. In these respects, Macedonian-Canadians are no different from Greek-Canadians, Italian-Canadian or whatever. Moreover, in the context of immigrant communities in countries like Canada and Australia, the term Macedonian has come to be pretty much restricted to the ethnic meaning in common English usage, so I see no problem of ambiguity here. The remaining disambig issue (if there really is one and it's not just again artificial POV-flagging) can easily be handled with a simple dab mark or something like that.

There is no requirement for article titles to be maximally unambiguous, as long as a competing meaning is not already the subject of an individual article of equal importance. And since we are unlikely to ever have dedicated articles on Greek Macedonian Canadians or the like, the article title is no problem. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Moreover, in the context of immigrant communities in countries like Canada and Australia, the term Macedonian has come to be pretty much restricted to the ethnic meaning in common English usage, so I see no problem of ambiguity here." On the contrary, it is among the Greeks of the diaspora that the Macedonian regional identity has often been expressed most strongly, given the much greater contact and at times conflict with the "other Macedonians" than would be the case in Greece. In this sense, the expatriate communities "live" the dispute in their own everyday lives, and not just via the talking heads on the evening news. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 19:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I said "in common English usage". That the members of these groups may have their own views is certainly true, but they can't dictate what the majority of the native English speech communities do. And it is in this general English usage that the term has in fact been "monopolised". You may regret it, but that's how it is. And the conflicts between the communities are of course irrelevant to Wikipedia article naming decisions. As long as there is no other article to disambiguate "Macedonian Canadian" from, there is not even an issue to debate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You're forgetting that the "native English speech communities" include many people who would reject your usage of the term. Considering Melbourne, for example, has the third largest ethnic Greek population of any city in the world, I find your claim that yours is the only "common English usage" to be rather dubious. Of those Australians and Canadians who would actually use the term at all, how many would use it in the Greek sense? I suspect the answer may be far higher than you think. In any case, I must reiterate that I simply don't see why the "common English usage" argument is relevant here but not at Macedonians (ethnic group). Unless you want to move that to Macedonians and ethnically cleanse the disambiguation page. What happened to consistency? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing. "Macedonians" has more than one actual Wikipedia pages that compete for the name, so it gets disambiguated in the title. "Macedonian Canadians" may have competing meanings (for a minority of speakers) in the real world, but it has not more than one Wikipedia page, so it does not get disambiguated in the title. Simple. But anyway, consistency was never Wikipedia's forte. Of course, if you want to move Macedonians (ethnic group) to Macedonians, I'd give some favourable consideration to that... Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, about that. Does it? Not any more, thanks to you-know-whom. The only article allowed to have "Macedonians" in its title is you-know-what, since these Macedonians were unceremoniously relegated to a subsection of the demographics section of another article. Thus, while we can have "Macedonian Americans", "Macedonian Canadians", "Macedonian Australians", "Ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria", Albania, Serbia, and São Tomé and Príncipe, the only article to propose an alternative meaning of the term was apparently deemed too much to digest. What a joke. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 20:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ancient Macedonians is still there though... Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I forgot to say "the only article that doesn't refer to a group safely dead and buried". (Even so, that doesn't stop us from having an ancient Rome alongside a Rome.) Still, I wouldn't be surprised if I saw them too merged one day into a perfect indivisible whole. After you preside over the page move, naturally. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Macedonian Canadians
I'm glad the name of the article has been changed to "Macedonian Canadians" since no Macedonian in Canada says they're "Canadian with ethnic Macedonian origin." Most will say "Macedonian Canadian" so I'm glad the article reflects how these people self-determinate. Also, the portion which states "not to be confused with Macedonian Greek Canadians" is completely out of place since there is NO "Macedonian Greek Canadian" article and honestly how dumb can you be to confuse an ethnic and subgroup? Maktruth (talk) 07:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, citations are needed. Maktruth (talk) 07:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The dablink is the result of a compromise on this talk page. Please don't remove it. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please create a correct article or redirect "Macedonian Greek Canadian" to the appropriate portion of the "Greek Canadian" article considering Macedonian Greek Canadian could mean MANY THINGS: 1) an ethnic Macedonian from/in Greece 2) a Canadian who is half ethnic Macedonian and half Greek... Maktruth (talk) 07:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Whereas "Macedonian Canadian" can only mean ONE thing, right? Whatever. You will be reverted in due course. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what else it could mean Kekrops, if a Greek stated "Macedonian Canadian" they would state their regional identity but forget their ethnic marker, and yes most people would presume that you mean ethnic Macedonian, hope that clears things up Maktruth (talk) 07:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think "Macedonian Canadian (ethnic group)" will work, what do you think? Maktruth (talk) 07:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh? Why re-open the debate about the article title? It's fine as is, it's the overwhelmingly predominant meaning in English. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Because Kekrops is claiming that "Macedonian Canadian" can mean Greeks from the geographic Macedonia with Canadian citizenship. I simply stated the portion which states "not to be confused with Macedonian Greek Canadians" is completely out of place since there is NO "Macedonian Greek Canadian" article and its in an article with clearly distinguishes the ethnic group. I also stated "Macedonian Greek Canadians" could mean a Canadian who is 1/2 Macedonian and 1/2 Greek therefore a "Macedonian Greek Canadian" article or a subsection in "Greek Canadians" to include "Macedonian Greeks" should be made so "Macedonian Greek Canadian" can revert there to better clarify things. Maktruth (talk) 07:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It "clearly distinguishes the ethnic group" only insofar as the dablink remains. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The first sentence distinguishes it, get yourself together Maktruth (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does it matter??? Macedonian Canadians or Canadians with Ethnic Macedonian origin?? Who are we to judge whether they identify as Macedonians or Canadians, unless you live in canada and have any experience with these. people please get a grip, how feeble! P m kocovski (talk) 11:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actualy they call them self Macedonian Canadians or Macedonians in Canada,here is a link of one of thear society.
 * http://macedonianhistory.ca/index.html,--Makedonij (talk) 16:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Source
This was the source the previous article was based on:


 * http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0004890

The article was copied, but this is a good source to restart the article with. Mactruth (talk) 04:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Photos
If anyone has photos they can add, DO IT! Mactruth (talk) 19:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio: Article deleted
I have speedy-deleted the article as a blatant copyvio from canadianencyclopedia.com. The full text of the article was copied, from its very earliest versions. Please rewrite from scratch. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

No Deletion
Hi, although i haven't edited the article previously i have restarted it after it was deleted. I will add to it when i have more time. PMK1 (talk) 01:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, but please be careful to not just paraphrase the same source again. Your current text is again very close to the source and still verges on being plagiarism. Please write something more independent of the structure and wording of the source. Oh, and please check whether the text shouldn't better be credited to "Canadian Encyclopedia" rather than "Macedonian History", the former seems to be its original hosting site. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * i will try to find other sources and will not reference the "Canada Encyclopedia" as much, although it is a v. good source. :). PMK1 (talk) 06:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Macedonian Canadians are not Bulgarians
The reason why Macedonians identified themselves as Bulgarians was because during World War 2, Macedonia was under Bulgarian occupation, and as you might know Bulgaria was with the Axis powers. When we were under their occupation, a person could be jailed or killed for calling himself a Macedonian and not a Bulgarian. Besides that, there was a propoganda system developed within the education system as well where it would be a routine for one child to say sentences in which he/she would call him/herself a Bulgarian. Just to clear this up... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.162.63.62 (talk) 23:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Please, provide reliable references, that Macedonian Canadians were regarded as Greeks and Serbs before 1950. Thank you. Jingby (talk) 08:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

If people identified as Bulgarian in Candada, then they must be considered Bulgarians, there is no point in re-idendtifying them as anything else. Some might argue that today a propaganda system is misleading people into calling themselves 'Macedonians', or 'Russians', or 'Morovians', etc. So let us respect the declared ethnicity of people now deceased. Politis (talk) 14:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

To Jingy: I never said anything about Macedonian Canadians being regarded as Greeks or Serbs before 1950. Why do you bring something up if it has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make?

To Politis: It's actually the other way around. You're speaking as if the Canadian government and people have sympathy for someone calling him or herself Bulgarian. No one cares. They would all rather let people call themselves Canadian instead of Bulgarian and I've seen alot of people do this. There's a difference between the truth and claims; the truth is he/she is Macedonian and not Bulgarian yet he/she can CLAIM any ethnic identity he/she wants. I'm Macedonian but if I want I could claim I was Somalian for my own amusement and get added into that census. It doesn't change a thing, dead or not.

Notable Mak Cans
I ordered them alphabetically and added a brief description for each, hope you like it! Mactruth (talk) 14:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Greeks

I had to remove some people from the list. It was incorrect. Some of the hockey and soccer players listed are from the Greek region of Macedonia in GREECE, NOT the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. The references listed didn't include any quotes from the players about their heritage. It gave out false information. Also, the players clearly had Greek names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hellas719 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hellas719, that is BS and you know it. There are thousands of people that identify themselves as Ethnic Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia (today in Greece), and it is the same for the people who immigrated to Canada. One of the greatest Macedonian activists in Toronto has the last name of Daikopolous, and is from Voden/Edessa, never been to R.Macedonia in his life, but he never claimed to be anything but an Ethnic Macedonian. That is, he is Greek CITIZEN (has Greek Passport), but is Macedonian ETHNICALLY. This article is not supposed to be about the Canadians with origins from R.Macedonia but about Canadians who have ETHNIC MACEDONIAN origins, and feel that way, regardless of which part of the Geographic region of Macedonia they come from. Thus, you should put back the names (greek-sounding, because of your Metaxas)of the Macedonian Canadians who are of Ethnic Macedonian origin (self-determine in that way) and are Canadian citizens. Capricornis (talk) 18:44, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Notable "Macedonian" Canadians
There appears to be an error on this section. There appears to be under this list names of Greek people. Such as the following

Steve Stavro - Businessman and philanthropist Chris Kotsopoulos NHL player Steve Staios - NHL player Steven Stamkos - NHL player Michael Zigomanis - NHL player

I have attempted numerous times to change the list by removing the following listed, but have been reverted numerous times. In order to not create a revert war I have decided to take this issue to the talk page. So I ask why are Greeks added to a page that has to do with a branch of Slavs? I am positive that many more people would like this to be changed.

Soccershoes1 (talk) 02:44, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


 * None of them are Greek. That's why you're being reverted. -- Local hero talk 02:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Um excuse me? If they were not Greek then I would not bother to go threw all of this. Where in these names do you see slavic names? These people are Greeks and have been wrongly catagorized. A change to this is manditory. Soccershoes1 (talk) 05:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Take a look at each person's article. You'll see a referenced fact on each one stating that the individual has Macedonian ethnicity. They do have Greek-looking names, though I assume that has to do with them being from Aegean Macedonia and nothing to do with their ethnicities. -- Local hero talk 15:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes I am aware of that, I have also attempted to change that however again I am being reverted. And you speak of sources thay are of fyromian backround? Well there are many sources pointing out that these people are infact of Greek decent. Also, these people as you word in being from "Aegean Macedonia" has nothing to do with their ethnicities? Beig from the Greek region of Macedonia DOES infacthave to do with their ethnicities, for as Greeks only have Greek names, unless there is the proccess of intercultural marrige which there is not for this issue. So in your eyes you can claim someone has nothing to do with being of Greek decent and still have Greek names? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccershoes1 (talk • contribs) 03:52, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd like to see one of these many sources. And, yes, I claim that just because someone has a Greek-sounding name does not mean they are of Greek ethnicity. -- Local hero talk 14:57, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Of course. Here is a website that lists a few of Greek Canadians http://top-topics.thefullwiki.org/Canadians_of_Greek_descent And you talk of Greek sounding names? If these are not Greek names acording to your logic then what ARE Greek names? Suely they do not have a ich, ski,ov or any other Slavic names. I shall use Kotsopoulos as a example. What of names that have opoulos? They are not Greek? Then what are they? Chinease? Latin? English? Slavic? Greeks have Greek names, they are not spread among other ethnecities. You will find a great simalaritie or shall I say samness of names within the Slavic states such as Bulgaria, Serbia ,Russia,Vardaska, other former Yugoslav states. Slavs. Do you denay this? What is this that you are trying to pull off? That other branches of different ethnicities have "Greek sounding names that are not Greek?" Then what are these names? Do explain the logic of what you belive in your fantasy world.Grek names, not Greek? what are they then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccershoes1 (talk • contribs) 03:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Go read a book, so you might find out. In the meantime, stop wasting our time. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:45, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Au contraire, if you are so knowledgable then shall you answer the question? Also, you stop waisting my time with your ignorence. Go ahead, try. Soccershoes1 (talk) 01:30, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Infobox image
Discussed already at Macedonian Americans, so let's just re-do it then: "Hello. What are the reasons to have this lead image? Does it conform with MOS:LEADIMAGE? If it's historically relevant, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the lead." Thanks. -- Local hero talk 00:01, 13 June 2024 (UTC)