Talk:Macedonian hip hop

Republic of?
This article has nothing to do with the Republic of Macedonia, it simply refers to hip hop in the Macedonian language anywhere in the world. For example, Sizzerb, a Serbian hip hop artist who lives in the US. Frightner 18:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The name of the country is the Republic of Macedonia and the article is moved appropriately. "Macedonia" needs to be disambiguated because it can also mean a (significant) region of Greece, which this article does not include. Mr. Neutron 18:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * For the last time, the article has nothing to do with the Republic of Macedonia but the Macedonian language, name once where I have referred to the Republic of Macedonia as Macedonia in the article exept for where I have disambiguated Macedonian music to Music of the Republic of Macedonia accordingly. Don't mix politics with music. Frightner 18:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, "Macedonian language hip hop" is fine with me. Mr. Neutron 18:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Macedonian language hip hop does not align with the template. There is already an article for Greek hip hop which included the Macedonian region of Greece because these articles have nothing to do with geography as you see it. I propose that the page be moved to Macedonian hip hop and a redirection be added at the top the page "This articles is about hip hop relating to the Macedonian language, for hip hop of the Greek province, see: Greek hip hop"? Frightner 18:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Greek" does not need to be disambiguated, where "Macedonian" does, this is why the title is now proper. Greek can only refer to the Greek language or Greeks, whereas "Macedonian" could mean Macedonian Bulgarians, Macedonian Albanians, Macedonian Greeks, who all speak very different languages. Mr. Neutron 18:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "So could Serbian Bulgarians, Serbian Albanians, Serbian Greeks yet there's only one Serbian hip hop because it only refers to the Serbian language, not ethnicity (eg Afrob, African-German rapper) or geography. You obviously do not understand the context of hip hop articles, you only see politics wherever the Republic of Macedonia is concerned. If hip hop articles were solely based on regions, then create an articles titled Macedonian hip hop (Greece) as Taiwan and Hong Kong has a hip hop article, but if these articles were geographically concerned, why is there an article for Arabic hip hop and Native American hip hop? Frightner 18:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If you have constructive suggestions, make you case at the respective disambiguation pages and do not destroy the consistency of Wikipedia. The point is "Macedonian" needs disambiguation, while all other examples do not. Mr. Neutron 18:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I specifically stated that it referred to the Macedonian language and I disambiguated Macedonian music to Music of the Republic of Macedonia but you are obviously oblivious to these things. Frightner 19:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrong, the version of the article you are reverting to does not have this disambiguation. Mr. Neutron 19:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I did not revert any edits, I moved the article to versions that did not have information then I later added them with edits. You should look closely at the history Mr. Neutron, control that trigger finger of yours. Frightner 19:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You did commit reverts, exactly as many as I did. The point is though, you are reverting without the slightest justification. Mr. Neutron 19:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

If you are woriied about the "greek" Macedonians and the "Bulgarian" Macedonians, wouldn't their hiphop fall under Greek hip hop and Bulgarian hip hop respectively since they are part of the Greek and Bulgarian nations and do not form a seperate nation? Uuttyyrreess 19:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Nation"? I thought we are talking languages now. Mr. Neutron 19:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok fine, language, let me restate:

If you are woriied about the "greek" Macedonians and the "Bulgarian" Macedonians, wouldn't their hiphop fall under Greek hip hop and Bulgarian hip hop respectively since they are part of the Greek and Bulgarian languages and do not form a seperate language? Uuttyyrreess 19:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly, unless Greek Macedonians speak a separate dialect of Greek known as Macedonian, then the Macedonian regarding this article refers to the Macedonian language of the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonian Bulgarians and Macedonian Greeks are not concerned in the article as their languages are still Bulgarian and Greek, respectively (ie Bulgarian hip hop and Greek hip hop). Greek hip hop has nothing to do with Ancient Greece or Modern Greece, if this was the case there would be separate articles for the slightly distinct Ancient and Modern Greek languages, not that hip hop existed in Ancient Greece. Frightner 20:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Ummm, there is a (Greek) Macedonian dialect (check where that redirects, and check the sources there). I'd say that the article name disambiguates sufficiently for most English speakers, if there were some way to signify that it does not regard the other language(s) (see most of them at Macedonia (terminology)). Therefore, the proposed word "language" would not be enough of a disambiguation -we'd need "Republic" or "ethnic". I'm moving it to the latter, since that is a term associated with the people who speak that language, regardless of location. It is neither offensive, nor [obviously] excessive, and it disambiguates the whole thing perfectly. NikoSilver 23:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that the mere existence of this awfully short stub is a demonstration of name-spamming for reasons other than informing. Yes, I mean nationalism. NikoSilver 23:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I did not create this article for the means of nationalism, Bulgarian contributors are ruining it for the rest of the hip hop community on Wikipedia. I was planning to expand this article but now I realize there's really no point. I cannot bare to stress over anymore nationalist Bulgarian propaganda. Frightner 14:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

BTW we lack sources here. you sure it the beginning was right after the independence of RoM? As far as I remember there were rap acts (long) before that incl. both underground and mainstream acts. Popular act was Nulta Pozitiv (feat. Darko Dimitrov as a young producer and arranger, Meto who became an orthodox christian monk later and Meche), then pop-rapers like Ena Veko (produced by Tose Pop Simonov), the Peace Brothers, Lastovica (feat. Vlado Janevski and Robert Sazdov) etc. Some of these acts appeared before the independence (at least shortly before it) For example Ena Veko performed at September 8 1991 independence celebration on the Skopje square. But i have no sources on hand right now, hopefully i will find some. Zorla 22:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Името, και πάλι
To those who have reverted my suggested new titles, how do you propose to disambiguate the subject of this article from the thriving hip hop scene of Thessaloniki and other Macedonian cities? · ΚΕΚΡΩΨ · 13:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What separates that "Macedonian" hip hop from the other Greek hip hop?  Balkan Fever  13:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What separates Macedonia from the rest of Greece? What separates your "Macedonian" hip hop from any other kind of hip hop, for that matter? · ΚΕΚΡΩΨ · 13:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's Macedonian, that's what.  Balkan Fever  13:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * And what's the hip hop from across the border in (the unredeemed) Macedonia, then? · ΚΕΚΡΩΨ · 13:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Fuck if I care.  Balkan Fever  13:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Classy bitch, as always. · ΚΕΚΡΩΨ · 15:01, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong moving the article to "ethnic Macedonian hip hop" or "Macedonian hip hop (Republic of Macedonia" etc, with "Macedonian hip hop" redirecting there. Hip hop is not distinguished only by language, country or ethnicity. What may not be obvious to you is the notability of the Greek Macedonian hip hop scene. I'm not insisting for the time being. When notability is established either with the expansion of the greek hip hop article to include a relative section or with the creation of a separate article the question will have more importance.--Zakronian (talk) 18:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

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