Talk:Macquarie Fields, New South Wales

Macquarie Links
The article states: "There is also a high-security housing estate based around an international standard golf course. This was built on top of remaining farmland in the area."

The housing estate mentioned is Macquarie Links, not Macquarie Fields. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Knittingand (talk • contribs) 22:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Major Edit
If any of you were wondering why the article looks better...I edited it earlier in the year. A bit late to be talking about it. The last article was biased and unreliable. I hope this clears up any doubts.Wikipedia Stubmechanic 10:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Poor referencing and original research
It seems to be endemic to this site, but yet again I find poor referencing. It is not good enought to put a reference hoping no one checks it out.

Crico, the reference you used for the section "Aboriginal Culture" is poor since it does not relate to the Macquarie Fields area.

Much of the content of the paragraph seems to come from the cited source, however it bears no relation to Macquarie Fields specifically. There is no mention of Macquarie Fields in the reference.

Thus you are drawing your own conclusion, that the reference is talking about Macquarie Fields.

Whoever wrote the section in question has in fact created a "new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources" (see NOR). And so this person has been engaging in the reprehensible practice of putting original research into a wikipedia article.

As such, I will remove the paragraph, and also the section heading since an empty section is not aesthetically pleasing. :-)

OzWoden (talk) 00:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, these anti-aboriginal edits are starting to get annoying. I don't have a problem with you removing blatantly biased or incorrect material or correcting poor writing. That makes articles better. But deleting factually correct material without attempting to make worthwhile additions or corrections only makes it worse. If you want to write a good Macquarie Fields article, do it. I won't mind if it makes no reference to the original inhabitants of the area if it's substantially better than the current job. For example:


 * The opening paragraph of the history section says James Meehan named it Macquarie Fields while a later paragraph states it was Jason Snowden. Don't you find that incongruous?
 * The transport section, which you did some editing on, could be better written and had no references until I added one for the bus routes. Surely if you were concerned about all the aboriginal facts, you would want that properly referenced too.
 * The schools section just lists a few schools as bullet points with no reference. A better schools section would give some idea of when the schools were established, whether they're public or private etc.
 * The Sport & Recreation section offers a vague and grammatically awkward "There is also a number of sporting fields in the town." Again there are no references.
 * There is no description of the commercial area.

Now, getting back to your points about the aboriginal history, you're right that reference doesn't mention Macquarie Fields. I have found no good references for the aboriginal history of the greater Campbelltown area but I have included a reference from Liverpool Council stating that the Georges River was considered the boundary between the Darug and Tharawal which then means Macquarie Fields is in Darug land. I don't consider that original research. The other reference describes the huts the Darug built, the tools they used, etc. which were the facts you previously questioned in that section. The references together support what is written.

I have reverted your deletion and if you continue making destructive rather constructive edits, I will just revert them without attempting to accommodate your views. I would rather accommodate you but you're not helping your cause by being so narrow minded on this issue. Crico (talk) 11:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Crico, I have decided to respond individually to the various statements within your rantings.

Okay, these anti-aboriginal edits are starting to get annoying. My edits are not anti-Aboriginal they are anti-poor-sourcing.

I don't have a problem with you removing blatantly biased or incorrect material or correcting poor writing.

Good. Then why did you mind the removal I made? This seems a little incongruous, don’t you think?

That makes articles better. But deleting factually correct material without attempting to make worthwhile additions or corrections only makes it worse.

The information may be factually correct for the Darug people. However the referenced article from which it is obvious these “facts” come from does not refer to the Macquarie Fields area or its pre-settlement inhabitants. Remember the article is about Macquarie Fields, not the Darug people.

Further the referenced source is hardly of the quality from which an encyclopaedia should source its information from. Nor can one guarantee it is factual since that article is written by a member of an Aboriginal Hippie Comune Art Workshop and is posted on that same Art Workshop’s website without references for it. It is not published by a reliable source, and it is not about Macquarie Fields.

If I posted an article on a Young Liberal Right Wing Thinktank website that described how one-eyed one-horned flying purple people eaters lived in the western sydnedy area before settlement and that they scared the Darug people off from hunting at night, and the article provided no references or any indication that it is factual, would you (or anyone else) extract information from it? I do not think so.

If you want to write a good Macquarie Fields article, do it. I won't mind if it makes no reference to the original inhabitants of the area if it's substantially better than the current job.

That is nice that you won’t mind, however as an editor of Wikipedia articles I am not here to satisfy your personal tastes.

For example: •	The opening paragraph of the history section says James Meehan named it Macquarie Fields while a later paragraph states it was Jason Snowden. Don't you find that incongruous?

Thankyou for pointing this out. That does sound incongruous, why don’t you remove whichever of the two has not been sourced properly? (like I was doing to other wishy washy statements). Please note, this point is of no relevance to the issue of the poorly referenced material I deleted.

•	The transport section, which you did some editing on, could be better written and had no references until I added one for the bus routes. Surely if you were concerned about all the aboriginal facts, you would want that properly referenced too.

Firstly, I think you mean Aboriginal (with the capital A). I believe my editing was of a gramatical or sentence structure fixing nature. I do believe it ought to be correctly referenced also, but since you did such a good job with that I thought I would leave it. :) Please note, this point is of no relevance to the issue of the poorly referenced material I deleted.

•	The schools section just lists a few schools as bullet points with no reference. A better schools section would give some idea of when the schools were established, whether they're public or private etc.

It might, but since I was in a ‘correcting badly referenced waffle’ type of mood I was not so concerenced. Most Sydney suburb articles only contain a short list of schools in the suburb. Also, the name of Macquarie Fields, Guise and Curran PUBLIC Schools kind of gives away whether they are PUBLIC or private. Please note, this point is of no relevance to the issue of the poorly referenced material I deleted.

•	The Sport & Recreation section offers a vague and grammatically awkward "There is also a number of sporting fields in the town." Again there are no references.

It may be grammatically awkward, but less so than before my edit to that section. This point is of no relevance to the poorly referenced material I deleted.

•	There is no description of the commercial area.

How observant of you. I could add that there is MacDonalds, and shopping centre known as Glenquarie, however that would be original research. If you so wish to reference and add that, please do.

Now, getting back to your points about the aboriginal history, you're right that reference doesn't mention Macquarie Fields. I have found no good references for the aboriginal history of the greater Campbelltown area but I have included a reference from Liverpool Council stating that the Georges River was considered the boundary between the Darug and Tharawal which then means Macquarie Fields is in Darug land. I don't consider that original research. The other reference describes the huts the Darug built, the tools they used, etc. which were the facts you previously questioned in that section. The references together support what is written

Yes, as I said, and as you agreed “that reference doesn’t mention Macquarie Fields”. If you lived here you would realise that Macquarie Fields is on ONE side of the Georges River. Which side the Tharawal and which side the Darug inhabited is not known from what you have said. Also since you have found no good references, in the words of Jimmy Wales, "Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information".

I have reverted your deletion and if you continue making destructive rather constructive edits, I will just revert them without attempting to accommodate your views. I would rather accommodate you but you're not helping your cause by being so narrow minded on this issue. Crico (talk) 11:08, 26 February 2008 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:OzWoden"

My edit was constructive since it removed unsubstatiated waffle. I am not being narrow minded. I am simply identifying wishy washy statements without references or without correct references, and in this case information irrelevant to the article at hand.

If you so desparately need to include a section about the pre-settlement, Aboriginal history of Macquarie Fields please go ahead and find real references about the Aboriginal history of Macquarie Fields and include the information that you find there. OzWoden (talk) 04:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Crico, the additional reference you cited from the Liverpool Council website also does not mention Macquarie Fields. Macquarie Fields is several suburbs away from Liverpool also, so the whole River thing is nonsense. OzWoden (talk) 04:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

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