Talk:Maelstrom (disambiguation)

This article needs help!
This is exactly the kind of thing I hate to see in here– the pop cultural and historical references are 95% of this article! How about some information about the phenomenon itself instead of which computer games refer to it? PSF--207.114.25.48 (talk) 11:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's a proposal: I'm going to cut out all of the pop culture stuff. Frankly, the tone of this article sounds too much like something out of XKCD (see the discussion at the Wood talk page). If anyone disagrees, revert it, but in my opinion, listing metal bands, Disney movies, etc. containing the word is not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. Murphy2010 (talk) 23:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Soapbox. The Poe and Verne references are notable. The statement "The word maelstrom is used to denote powerful, inescapable destructive forces" reflects the hundreds of uses of "maelstrom" in pop culture and I guess is a notable fact about Maelstrom. Listing the hundreds of such uses of "maelstrom" in pop culture is clutter. This has been a problem other articles: the Colt .45 pistol or Douglas DC-3 airplane are iconic, but a listing of every film, novel, song, video game, etc. referencing them adds little to the articles. The issue is what is an important cultural reference and what is trivial. Editors are warned to avoid lists of trivia in Wikipedia articles: WP is an on-line encyclopedia not an on-line version of Trivial Pursuit. Soapbox off. Naaman Brown (talk) 20:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I removed almost all of it because it wasn't even remotely notable even by pop-culture section standards. Seriously, half of the stuff in that section didn't even reference an actual maelstrom. To recap: a book by a highly notable author where a maelstrom is a central instrument in a major plot device warrants mention. A sequel movie where a whirlpool is depicted for several minutes during a battle scene is not. A video game where a unit's name includes "maelstrom" in it is not. Thanks, guys. ZigSaw 01:10, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Etymology
Why has this word been included in the "Dutch loanwords" Category? I don't see any mention of Dutch in the article! --JillesOldenbeuving 23:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If you go back into the article history, you'll find a more correct reference to the Dutch origin of the word. I've also checked a couple of Swedish etymological dictionaries; and they both describe the Swedish malström as undisputedly borrowed from Dutch.  The oldest known appearance of the word in the Swedish language is from 1698.
 * The trouble is, that Poe's story has made such an impact, that most people do not know that there ever was other maelstroms than Poe's. Since Poe also exaggerated the behaviour of Moskstraumen a bit, we now have a split between the "literary maelstroms" and the "actually existing whirlpools".  In particular, Poe borrowed the word from the Danish-Norwegian form of the word, and not all editors of this article respect the fact that the Nordic word in its turn is known to be borrowed from Dutch.
 * I'll try to correct the article a little, but just once. We'll see how long my changes will remain "undiscorrected" :-) JoergenB 21:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Your reference mentions both Dutch maalstroom and German mahlstrom: enough to overrule the derivation as mentioned in Grottasöngr, but IMHO not enough to claim "known to be borrowed from Dutch". Erik Warmelink (talk) 10:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the Dutch verb malen has taken a secondary meaning ("to turn round and round") which is rather appropiate for a Maelstrom. I don't know whether German or Low Saxon have that secondary meaning too. Erik Warmelink (talk) 11:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The word maalstroom is contemporary Dutch. The verb malen means to grind. The word stroom means flow or stream. Even the combination is contemporary Dutch. I assume that the word hasn't changed since then. Greetings, Roger Jeurissen.

The WNT says: "Bij VERDAM en bij KIL. niet voorkomende; doch Maelstrom vindt men wel op de kaart van Noorwegen in den atlas van MERCATOR van 1595. (...) Het eerste lid is waarschijnlijk Malen in den zin van draaien: zie MALEN.", which translates to "Not existing in VERDAM and KIL. [old Dutch dictionaries], though Maelstrom is present on a map of Norway in the MERCATOR atlas of 1595. (...) The first part is probably Malen meaning to turn: see MALEN". So in the oldest recorded use it is still used in connection with Scandinavia, which imho doesn't rule out a borrowing from a Scandinavian language into Dutch, instead of vice versa. Also, the article mentions 'waalstroom', which must be discredited given the WNT's entry. I'll update the article accordingly. Jalwikip (talk) 12:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Verne's 20,000 Leagues...
There should be a mention of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, where the Nautilus finds the Maelstrom (the Moskstraumen) in the climax of the novel. Nazroon 20:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

So. I just wanted to mention that the article says that the powerful whirlpools in Verne's novel and others are entirely fictional.

http://www.sott.net/article/265248-Ultra-powerful-black-hole-whirlpools-seen-for-the-first-time-in-the-South-Atlantic maybe not? ☺

"The whirpools (sic) - never witnessed before - would suck down ships, debris and even living creatures, moving 1.3 million cubic metres of water per second. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.78.21 (talk) 18:48, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Pirates of the Caribbean reference
Why is the film described aas having "visually mesmerizing sequences"? I found them to be technically competent, but they should be described in a more neutral tone

- I agree, also - the galleons were not involved in the fight at all in the maelstrom. They didn't even fight at all, and as such I have removed them.

I think we should delete the POTC CGI whrilpool because this article is about a real thing and not a fictional representation of it. --154.20.34.209 05:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Better Image
The image currently used seems somewhat unjust for the phenomena; it's at a bad angle and doesn't reflect the intensity of a Maelstrom. If somebody can find a better image, I'd appreciate them obtaining copyright and using the image here. Neobros 16:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Miles Strom from LOST
I think there's a connection--96.229.92.97 (talk) 09:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

His name is Miles Straume (an Asian man with a Norwegian name). And yes, the producer of Lost confirmed that they choose the name so it would sound like maelstrom. This article needs a "reference in popular culture" section or something and include this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.247.28.92 (talk) 20:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

DAB and dictionary
As far as I can see, the content on this page would be better going over to Wiktionary, and the list being merged with the disambiguation page, since it is essentially a badly formatted DAB page as it is. Opinions? Volunteers? Sadly at present I don't have the time to sort and prune a DAB page myself, although I'll add it to my to-do list if it doesn't get done in a few months. me_and (talk) 23:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Relative danger of the maelstrom in literature
In old literature, the Maelstrom is always described as a truly fearsome feature. There is a beautiful soliloquy in Moby-Dick, where Captain Ahab promises to follow the white whale "around the Horn, and around the Norway maelstrom, and around perdition's flames". I assume that the Horn is Cape Horn, which to this day has the most dire reputation. Yet modern accounts seem to treat the Maelstrom as little more than a pretty tourist attraction. Can anyone explain this odd inconsistency? Wnt (talk) 12:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Etymology, again
I just added two things that were missing from the article: If anyone needs a source for these two facts, both are confirmed by the OED. 91.107.190.22 (talk) 18:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact that our spelling with the  comes from the older spelling of the Dutch word
 * The correct pronunciation, with an "ay" sound. Incidentally, one of my pet peeves is the way many people read  as "ay" by default, even though most English words with  are from Latin and "ee" is correct. This word is one of the few cases where "ay" is right.

The article currently begins by saying that "malen" is Dutch for "to grind", and then a few lines down, in the section on the Moskstraumen, the Dutch meaning is given as "to crush". As a non-Dutch speaker I'm not about to correct it myself, but someone needs to sort it out. Please.121.219.128.81 (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Japan Tsunami
I'm unclear of whether the whirlpool filmed in the wake of the 2011 Japanese tsunami deserves consideration in this article. My understanding of a maelstrom seems to fit the context of this article and as such, the "whirlpool" filmed off the coast of Japan should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.140.13 (talk) 23:39, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The purpose of the article is to explain what a maelstrom is, not to provide examples of every maelstrom that ever happened. TallNapoleon (talk) 01:09, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Do "ephemeral whirlpools" qualify as maelstroms? Moskstraumen, Saltstraumen, Corryvreckan, Old Sow whirlpool, Naruto whirlpool and other maelstroms are permanent features noted on navigational charts as hazards. The whirlpools formed by the tsunami after the earthquake were transient and no longer exist or pose any navigational hazard. Naaman Brown (talk) 01:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Merge Request?
Shouldn't this page be merged with Whirlpool? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SarahTehCat (talk • contribs) 23:27, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just proposed such a merge, but that's something you could do yourself; WP:MERGE has the process. —me_and 21:21, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't know I could it myself, so thanks for the link. Still, it's good you did it because I don't have the time to do much more than post something about that on the talk page. – SarahTehCat (talk) 20:13, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Paul the Deacon
I was a little frustrated that the head referenced a famous passage in Paul the Deacon, which then was never mentioned again. Paul is very important, and for present purposes very early, and if he has a narrative that deserves the reference in the head, it ought to be described. --Doric Loon (talk) 11:02, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Maelstrom (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:49, 17 November 2021 (UTC)