Talk:Mafalda Salvatini

Mafalda and Adolph Friedrich VI
Dear 4meter4, let me first introduce myself: my name is Alexander Gérard, I am the son of Charles E. (Horst) Gérard and therefore the grandson of Mafalda Salvatini.

I would like to make the following remarks regarding the Wikipedia-entry on Mafalda Salvatini.

The copy of my grandmother’s birth certificate in my hands tells me that Mafalda Salvatini was born Matilde Maria Luigia Salatini on October 19th 1886 (not: 1888). It was customary for artists in those days to manipulate their birthdates in order to appear younger than they actually were.

She was later known under her stage name Mafalda Salvatini.

What I also know from documents in my hands (if not from herself and her sons telling me) is that she married my grandfather Dr. Dr. Walter Gérard, a German scientist of huguenot descent, in Berlin in 1908. Their first son Rolf (Carl Cesare Walter) Gérard was born on August 9th 1909 in the family premises at Heydenstrasse 21 in Berlin-Dahlem, a villa which had been built by Walter’s father/Mafalda’s father-in-law, Carl Gérard, a very sucessful and wealthy architect.

According to the birth certificate in my hands, my father was also born in the Heydenstrasse 21 on August 24th 1912 to the name of Horst Carl Eduard Walter Gérard, which was changed to Charles E. Gérard, when he emigrated to the USA in 1938. The birth certificate identifies the „Fabrikbesitzer (factory owner) Doktor Jurist (lawyer) Walter Josef Eduard Gérard“ as the father and „Matilda Maria Luigia Gérard, geborene (born) Salatini, seiner Ehefrau (his wife)“ as the mother.

It is undisputed that Mafalda and Adolph Friedrich VI knew each other. However, from correspondence I hold in hands, it seems that they became acqainted with one another a long time after my father’s birth and that their relationship, as expressed in the correspondence, was an amicable yet formal one. Mafalda sang on various occasions for the Grand Duke and his guests. And my father and my uncle had vivid and positive memories of meeting him. But I have, however, to date never seen or heard of any real evidence that Mafalda was his mistress. And it is highly unlikely that both her father-in-law, Carl Gérard, in whose house she lived at the time, and her husband Walter Gérard would have accepted such circumstances. And does one -looking at it from the other side- really expect a twenty year-old young woman of very conservative catholic upbringing to move from Paris to Berlin to marry one man, move into the house of her parents-in-law and immediately start a liaison with another man and conceive a child with him and keep all of this secret?

After the Grand Duke’s suicide shortly before the end of World War I, however, the government of Mecklenburg-Strelitz spread the rumor, that the Grand Duke had promised to marry Mafalda Salvatini and since -because of their diferrent social status- he could not and she was told to have refused to free him from his vow, as a man of honour he had shot himself.

Again, there is no evidence of such a promise. But the story served a purpose: it is known that Adolph Friedrich was homosexual and homosexual practices were liable to prosecution in Germany in those days. For a person of that public importance, a love affair gone astray seemed more appropriate as a trigger for a suicide than a conflict with the law. (Other rumors, such as spying for the enemies with the help of Daisy von Pless, one of the High Society Ladies of the European high nobility prior to World War I, were also aired).

This view is supported by the fact, that the Grand Duke had been blackmailed because of his homosexual inclinations. He had frequently visited a „salon for high-ranking personalities“ in Berlin run by Marguerite Höllrigl (later known as Gräfin Margit Bubna-Litic), and in 1910, i.e. before ascending to power in Mecklenburg-Strelitz, is said to have promised to pay her five million Reichsmark in return for her secrecy, after being installed as Grand Duke.

Shortly after the Grand Duke’s accession to the throne in 1914, an agreement was reached with Margit Bubna-Litic through intermediaries, and she actually received a payment of Reichsmark 760.000 in return for her „expenses“ and the promise to hand over compromising documents, in which case she was promised another payment of three million Reichsmark. In those days, these were huge sums of money.

Margit Bubna-Litic, however, never handed over the compromising documents and accordingly, has not received the promised further payment. The reason for withholding these documents could have been her public claim that the Grand Duke had vowed to marry her.

After the Grand Duke’s death, the end of World War I and the following unrest in Germany, Margit Bubna-Litic sued the heirs of Adolphus Frederick VI requesting the payment of the three million Reichsmark. It was one of the big scandal court cases of the Weimar Republic, and with the sentence of the court in Leipzig 1928 Margit Bubna-Litic was told that she had rightfully received the initial payment to cover her „expenses“ but that she was not entitled to any further payments. These are facts and they are all in the public domain.

I know of no evidence that either Rolf Gérard or Horst Gérard where the sons of my grandmother Mafalda Salvatini and Adolphus Frederick VI. To my knowledge, the rumor that they were his sons first turned up in the Website „Monarchies of Europe“ under „Mecklenburg-Strelitz Royal Family“ (see http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Mecklenburg_Strelitz_Royal_Family.htm), but again no evidence is given. Both Rolf Gérard and Charles Gérard -confronted with these rumors- dismissed such possibility. There was not a shade of a doubt on their minds, that Walter Gérard was their father.

Often a letter of Adolphus Frederick VI’s nephew Ernst August Prinz zur Lippe to the historian Bei der Wieden is cited as proof: „Die Tatsache, dass der Großherzog Leibeserben hatte, habe ich –natürlich nicht aus der engeren Familie- erfahren“ (I have learnt -naturally not from within the immediate family circle- the fact that the Grand Duke had offsprings). But he added, and this bit is not necessarily cited: „Aber leider habe ich keine Einzelheiten über Namen, persönliche Daten und Anzahl“ (But unfortunately I have no details regarding names, personal data und numbers).

In the German version of Wikipedia on Adolphus Frederick VI (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Friedrich_VI._(Mecklenburg)), there is no mention of Horst and Rolf Gérard being sons of Adolphus Frederick VI, and this for good reason: there is absolutely no evidence for such an assumption.

I would therefore be grateful if you could delete such allegations from the Wikipedia-entry regarding Mafalda Salvatini.

In 1933 Mafalda Salvatini married Jurgis Šaulis, who was one of the signataries of the Lithuanian Declaration of Independence 1918 (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurgis_Šaulys). He was Lithuanian Ambassador to Germany, Switzerland and Poland and actually present in Warzaw, when World War II broke out. He fled via Finland to Switzerland, where Mafalda Salvatini owned a house in Lugano, where they lived together until his death in 1948.

I hope these clarifications are of use. With best regards Alexander Gérard

Loci123 (talk) 11:13, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Loci123, thank you for taking the time to raise these concerns here. I certainly do not want any inaccurate information to be presented in this article. However, there are some policies on wikipedia which need to be considered regaurding questions of sourcing in verifying the information you have presented. I would suggest that you read Verifiability. The first policy that you should be aware of is that wikipedia can not use wikipedia as a source of information. Please do not cite other wikipedia articles when trying to verify facts. Second, wikipedia has a policy of no original research. When verifying information it is important to use only Tertiary sources and reliable Secondary sources. None of the evidence you have provided falls in this category. All of the evidence you have provided (such as letters, birth certificates, and family accounts) are Primary sources and therefore not appropriate for wikipedia.


 * You should also be aware of wikipedia's conflict of interest policy since you are related to the article's subject.
 * That said, many of the questions you raise are compelling, but unfortunately printed references disagree. The fact that Mafalda and Adolph were engaged and involved with one another can be cited to many printed references, including:


 * There is also the fact that Rolf Gérard's published 2007 autobiography states that he and his brother Horst Gérard were the sons of Mafalda and Adolph. These sources conflict with the picture you presented above, and because they are published tertiary and secondary sources they hold more weight in terms of wikipedia verifiability policy than the evidence you have presented here. I can therefore not support any changes to the article at this time.
 * There is also the fact that Rolf Gérard's published 2007 autobiography states that he and his brother Horst Gérard were the sons of Mafalda and Adolph. These sources conflict with the picture you presented above, and because they are published tertiary and secondary sources they hold more weight in terms of wikipedia verifiability policy than the evidence you have presented here. I can therefore not support any changes to the article at this time.
 * There is also the fact that Rolf Gérard's published 2007 autobiography states that he and his brother Horst Gérard were the sons of Mafalda and Adolph. These sources conflict with the picture you presented above, and because they are published tertiary and secondary sources they hold more weight in terms of wikipedia verifiability policy than the evidence you have presented here. I can therefore not support any changes to the article at this time.


 * I understand that this may not have been the response you were hoping for, and I have no doubt that you have good intentions. I would suggest that you try and find some published tertiary and secondary sources which support the account you give. When that is done, we can alter the article accordingly. If no such sources exist, then I'm afraid the article can not be changed. At that point, you might consider contacting a music historian and encouraging them to put together an academic paper on Mafalda Salvatini's life by giving them access to all the primary source material you have. Once that's published in a music journal or in an encyclopedic entry we would have an authoratative source to use here on wikipedia. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:12, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Dear 4meter4, although I might pose a conflict of interest since I am related to the article’s subject, I would like to bother you again in the interest of facts.

You base your view on three secondary sources, which I would like to comment individually as follows:

1.	Rolf Gérard’s published 2007 autobiography

You point out „that Rolf Gérard’s published 2007 autobiography states that he and his brother Horst Gérard were the sons of Mafalda and Adolph.“ However, this is not correct. In the Italian translation of the original book, which you refer to (Rolf Gérard, Un Diario Lungo 90 Anni, Benteli Verlags AG, Berna e Fondazione Rolf Gérard Ascona, 2007), the autobiography begins on page 257 with the following statement: „Sono nato a Berlino il 9 agosto 1909 figlio dello scienziato tedesco di origine ugonotta Walter Gérard (1883-1956) e della famosa cantante italiana Mafalda Salvatini (1888-1971). In the English translation, published the same year (as well as the original German version) by Benteli Verlags AG, this reads as follows: „I was born in Berlin on 9 August (1909) to Walter Gérard (1883-1956), a German scientist of Huguenot extraction, and Mafalda Salvatini (1888-1971), a celebrated Italian opera singer.“ There is no mention whatsoever of Adolphus Frederick VI, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz in the autobiography.

2.	Frank Erstling (2001) Mecklenburg-Strelitz: Beiträge zur Geschichte einer Region. 1. Landkreis, Verlag Druckerei Steffen, p. 185

This is a compilation of different essays regarding the history of Mecklenburg-Strelitz published in 2001 by the socalled Landkreis and edited by Frank Erstling. The essay you are referring to is „Das Fürstenhaus von Mecklenburg-Strelitz“ (The dynasty of princes Mecklenburg-Strelitz) written by Rajko Lippert, a dentist and history hobbyist.

The paragraph before last of page 185 reads as follows (in the English translation): „At that time the government was negotiating the marriage of the Grand Duke with a German princess. But first he had to be freed from a marriage vow, which he had given Mafalda Salvatini, the actress (!) at the royal theatre in Berlin“. Rajko Lippert, however, does not provide the slightest evidence for the actual existence of such a marriage vow.

Rolf and Horst Gerard are not at all mentioned in the text of Rajko Lippert, and accordingly this source does not support in any way the rumour that the Grand Duke had illegitimate sons nor that these were Rolf and Horst Gérard.

3.	Georg Tessin, Helge bei der Wieden (1979) Aus tausend Jahren mecklenburgischer Geschichte: Festschrift für Georg Tessin zur Vollendung seines 80. Lebensjahres, Böhlau, p. 168

This is again a compilation of essays published in 1979 on the occasion of the eightiest birthday of Georg Tessin, a German historian and archivist. Editor of this compilation is Helge Bei der Wieden. The essay you are referring to is „Der Strelitzer Thronfolgefall von 1918“ (The succession to the throne of Strelitz in 1918) written by Carl Meltz.

In this text of fifteen pages Mafalda Salvatini is mentioned three times: on page 167, 168 and 172 of which I attach copies.

The last paragraph of page 166 and the first paragraph of page 167 consists of a quotation of parts of an official announcement by the State Ministry of Mecklenburg-Strelitz dated March 4th 1918, attempting to explain the cause of the suicide: reference is made to the Grand Duke’s intention to marry a German princess and the neccessity to clear away the obstacle stemming from an engagement he had previously intended, all if this without mentioning any names. And since -so the announcement- he had met unexpected difficulties in his endeavour, had fallen into such a despair regarding his future, that his judgement became so clouded and his feelings so confused that he shot himself. The second paragraph then reads as follows: „Second to this so to speak official version, which refers to the marriage vow given to the Italian opera singer at the Staatsoper Berlin, Mafalda Salvatini (the role, in which she excelled: Carmen), stands another version, which has survived for more than half a century. (The essay continious to elaborate on the claim, that Daisy von Pless might have breached the Grand Duke’s confidence in order to spy for Britain).

On page 168, paragraph three, a text of the State Minister Dr. Roderich Hustaedt on the subject is quoted. Amidst a general description of the Grand Duke’s state of mind („a strongly degenerated man weary of life“) Hustaedt writes: „His relationship with Madame Salvatini have brought him indeed trouble, but for a normal and healthy being this meant no sound reason to abandon this life prematurely and voluntarily. The suicide of the Grand Duke can in my opinion only be attributed to the fact, that he was strongly degenerated and (....) that he no longer had any love of life. His last letters show the typical picture of a totally broken soul weary of life.“

In the last paragraph of page 172 reference is again made to a vow of marriage given to Mafalda Salvatini.

It must be pointed out that Carl Meltz’s essay does not give any evidence that Mafalda Salvatini was in fact the mistress of the Grand Duke and that the Grand Duke had actually given her a promise of marriage. Also this source does not mention in any way Rolf and Horst Gérard, nor does it state that they are sons of the Grand Duke.

To summarize the situation, none of the three secondary sources you have referred to

•	states that the Grand Duke had illegitimate sons nor that these were Rolf and Horst Gérard •	give evidence, that Mafalda Salvatini was the mistress of the Grand Duke. (Also, I don’t know, who came up with the absurd idea that she could have become the Grand Duke’s mistress in 1908, at a time when she moved to Berlin to marry Walter Gérard).

I therefore ask you, to kindly reword that part of the Wikipedia-entry.

4.	Secondary sources of a more recent vintage

I would like to draw your attention to more recent publications regarding the life and death of the Grand Duke as follows:

4a. Andreas Frost: Neue Details zum Tod von Großherzog Adolh Friedrich VI (New details regarding the death of Grand Duke Adolphus Frederick VI.)., Mecklenburgische Jahrbücher, herausgegeben im Auftrag des Vereins für mecklenburgische Geschichte und Altertumskunde e.V. von Andreas Röpcke, 124. Jahrgang 2009, Schwerin, p. 239-282.

The results of this extensive research measuring 44 pages was published in the renown Mecklenburg Yearbook after having been scrutinized by a commission of five historians. The results of this research, which had been co-financed by the Norddeutscher Rundfunk (North German Radio Broadcasting Corporation) also led to a film entitled „Tod eines Märchenprinzen“ (Death of a fairy-prince), which was broadcast on German televison on November 22nd 2009.

The first page of the essay summarizes the findings. The second paragraph reads as follows in my translation into English:

„Even ninety years after the death of the most wealthy bachelor of the German Kaiserreich rumours circulate around the reasons for his suicide, that wind around two beautiful women and two illegitimate children and deal with espionage, a promise of marriage as well as secret messengers. However, Adolf Frederick’s will, that had been closed away in an archive for many years, a handful of last notes he wrote as well as two court verdicts throw a new light onto the abrupt end of the sovereign. Without doubt a woman gave grounds for the suicide. But they are neither Princess Daisy of Pless nor the singer Mafalda Salvatini at the Berlin Court, which are repeatedly mentioned in literature and in rumours. A society lady in Berlin obviously played a much more important role in Adolf Frederick’s life as well as in his death.“

If you wish, I will be happy to send you a digitalized copy of this publication. The court verdicts mentioned above refer to the dispute with Margit Höllrigl/Marguerite Bubna-Litic, which I mentioned in my last entry to you and the fact that the Grand Duke was being blackmailed because of his homosexual inclinations.

4b. Andreas Frost: Eine kurze Biographie von Adolf Friedrich VI., Biographisches Lexikon für Mecklenburg, Band 6, Herausgegeben von Andreas Röpcke, Rostock 2011, p. 17, 18 and 20.

The second half of the second paragraph on page 20 reads as follows in the English translation: „The other rumour maintained that the Grand Duke had promised to marry the opera singer Mafalda Salvatini (1888-1971) and had had two illegitimate sons with her. No proof exists for this. Furthermore the similarity between Walter Gérard, the husband of Mafalda Salvatini, and his sons Rolf and Horst is evident. Also letters, which Adolphus Frederick VI wrote to Mafalda Salvatini, speak against the existence of a promise of marriage. Their tone is not suited to a women, with whom he (i.e. the Grand Duke) is simultaneously negotiating in oder to be freed from a vow of marriage.“

5.  Mafalda Salvatini’s date of birth

On page 269 of his essay, Andreas Frost states the correct date (17 October 1886) and location of birth of Mafalda Salvatini, as evidenced by the birth certificate in my hands. As I said before, it was common amongst artists (Melba is a famous example) to change their birthdates in order to appear younger than they actually were.

6.  Final remarks

Coming to an end, I would like to point out, what a wonderful research you have carried out regarding Mafalda Salvatini’s professional career and the venues, in which she has performed. I would like to thank you for this important contribution to the memory of my grandmother.

Andreas Frost, in his research, has identified other sources of information regarding Mafalda Salvatini’s career, which you might also find of interest:

-	Concerning her debut in Berlin in the role of Aida in 1908, with reference to an article on page 4 of the Berliner Börsen Courier dated April 3rd 1908, he points out that Mafalda Salvatini was called to step in for Emmy Destinn, and that following the performance Enrico Caruso had to carry her onto the stage, because she would not come on her own to collect her applause. -	Mafalda Salvatini actually premiered the first Turandot in Germany on November 6th 1926 in Berlin under the baton of Bruno Walter. (www.deutscheoperberlin.de/?page=spielplandetail&id_event_cluster=10526&archive=1)

With best regards Loci123 (talk) 16:45, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Dear 4meter4, the following was not correctly reproduced in my last entry: "If you wish, I will be happy to send you a digitalized copy of this publication. The court verdicts mentioned above refer to the dispute with Margit Höllrigl/Marguerite Bubna-Litic, which I mentioned in my last entry to you and the fact that the Grand Duke was being blackmailed because of his homosexual inclinations." Regards Loci123 (talk) 16:49, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Dear 4meter4, as I have not heard from you since my last entry a month ago, I allowed myself to change the entry on Mafalda Salvatini according to the latest research results and other sources I have come across. I hope you agree to the wording. I kindly ask you to also change Mafalda Salvatini's birth year to 1886, since I do not know how to implement such a change on the Wikipedia-site. Thank you and best regards Loci123 (talk) 15:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)