Talk:Magic 8 Ball

Sides vs answer numbers
How do you put 25 answers on an icosahedron (20 sided object)? I do NOT recall the last 5 "answers". LOL was never on mine from the 60s. 9:51 EDT 7/7/11
 * Seems to be vandalism. Fixed now. Brted (talk) 18:47, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Currently claims 23 answers. -- Resuna (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is due to vandalism. Currently fixed. -Stelio (talk) 11:07, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Minimal buoyancy?
This is in regard to the following statement in the Design section of the article: "The die is hollow, with openings in each face, allowing the die to fill with fluid, giving the plastic die minimal buoyancy."

This doesn't make sense. To begin with, as I recall, no holes are apparent on any of the die's faces when viewed through the window.

More importantly, how can a "hollow" die "with openings in each face" and "minimal buoyancy" float to the top of the 8 ball? If the die does indeed have any of these properties, it would sink to the bottom of the liquid-filled chamber and therefore be unviewable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TJ Dimacali (talk • contribs) 04:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Presumably, "minimal bouyancy" indicates that there is just enough bouyancy to float. As I recall, it being years since I've had my hands on one of these, the die comes up sort of slowly rather than popping quickly up (perhaps to give an impression of "thinking"?). I guess that whatever the die is made of has a low enough density to float on its own without needing a hollow interior to bouy it up. Wschart (talk) 20:12, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Standard answers
I seem to recall the (1960's) text being 'answer hazy try again later' rather than 'reply hazy...'. Any corroboration of this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.30.78.21 (talk) 15:23, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I am looking at a Magic 8 Ball estimated to date from the 1970s. It says "Reply hazy try again", except that it uses small caps instead of lower-case letters.  In addition it lacks punctuation, so I will boldly remove the dash that is currently shown in the article for the "try again" answer.  Perhaps this modification counts as original research; if so, feel free to revert it. DavidHolmes0 (talk) 20:41, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

History
I would like to know more about the creation of the M8B. Why did Abe choose an 8-ball to answer question? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.33 (talk) 18:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Assorted comments
I think the tyco thing should go in the first sentence. But if you really don't like that you can move it again and i won't object. --Heah (talk) 18:50, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Someone spammed this article by copying and pasting its content dozens of times. I deleted the redundant copies and kept the original text. 64.117.157.176 03:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

What I like doing is picking up a display model in a shop, and asking it "should I steal this 8-ball", or some such variant thereof :D 128.232.250.254 23:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

...does anybody have any idea of the history of the magic 8-ball... like, why an 8-ball? --Unnatural20 06:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

On "In television and film": I'm sure I saw "Dr House" using it. Although I really think he did it in an ironic way. Question is does it qualify? (Ragnvald 07:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC))

https://yes-or-no.ru Online fortune telling (Yet another Magic Ball)

What about Toy Story, when Woody shakes the Magic 8 Ball, gets "Don't Count on it," and lets it roll behind the desk? Should that be in the "Popular Culture" section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.252.21.197 (talk) 03:43, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Apparently this is yet another toy that is about to become a movie: https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/1072733-magic-8-ball-movie-in-development-at-blumhouse — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.202.33.17 (talk) 05:02, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

High School Musical variant
I see on the Toys R Us website that a High School Musical variant of the Magic 8-Ball is for sale. It should probably be listed in this article, but I don't know anything about it. Does anyone know it differs from the standard model? Pat Berry 19:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Placement of Contents box
Is there a way to get the Contents box to appear above the "Standard Answers" section? Also, the formatting of the Answers table needs to be cleaned up. Captain Infinity 18:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Contents box is above the "Standard Answers" section already, unless I misunderstand you... and I changed the formatting of the Answers table a bit to neaten it up a little. --Cadby (talk) 15:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Liquid?
What is the liquid inside? Is it colored water... or something more... sinister??? Can you drink it? Someone find out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.161.126 (talk) 13:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * In order, the answers are: It's alcohol with dissolved blue dye, no, more sinister, ill-advised. PatrickLMT (talk) 11:33, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Magic 9-ball
I reverted an edit which was unsourced. I spent some time performing a web search, and I was not able to find any mention of the information in the edit. If anyone has evidence that the information isn't just fiction, please feel free to re-add it to the article. --Ben James Ben 01:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There's a Sarcastic 9 Ball parody version. That's not what the claim was making. oknazevad (talk) 19:25, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Is it a Typo?
In the first section the word "die" is used consequently referring the icosahedron inside, except one occasion. I think "dice" should be corrected. It now only bears ambiguity.

---Dice is plural. Die is correct. -Robot Devil's Advocate.

Eragon Magic Eight Ball Variant
I have an Eragon Magic Eight Ball. It has the standard answers though. Should I add the Eragon version to the variants list? Secad (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC).

Leaving commercial linking out including online variations
Attempts to turn this article into a link farm have been removed. If you would like to discuss these removals, you are invited to do so. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * ...this includes the online variations. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  ((⊕)) 14:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to delete variations section
This section begins by announcing a list of popular variations, but none of the varieties listed has achieved any degree of widespread adoption. Where sources exist they are dubious - to Amazon or other commercial sites - and by far the majority of these variations are not sourced at all. Lists of trivia are deprecated in Wikipedia and this one sinks an otherwise fine article. If no one objects I plan to delete the section. Alistair Stevenson (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hyphenation
Mattel refers to this product as the Magic 8 Ball, not the Magic 8-Ball. I'm making the change - if anyone has a good reason to revert, please at least add discussion here. Snorkelman

Requested move
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 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 13:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Magic 8-Ball → Magic 8 Ball &mdash; Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC) This is the correct name for the product. To effect the move, the redirect page with the name Magic 8 Ball needs to be renamed as well. User:Snorkelman 21:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: The page should not be moved for the sole sake of correctly matching how the company or manufacturer spells it. Per WP:TRADEMARK, "follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, regardless of the preference of trademark owners." However, a reason listed on WP:HYPHEN would be satisfactory to me. Unfortunately, the corresponding article, Eight-ball, currently includes the hyphen. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment: I have to confess that hyphenation gives me a lot of trouble, and the rules in WP:HYPHEN depend in many cases on judgment. I don't see any clear rule on either WP:HYPHEN that indicates that either spelling violates any rules. Given that, maybe common usage is the correct guideline? On questions of usage I like to use Google hit counts, but I can't seem to find a way to get any search engine to distinguish between the two spellings.

It does seem pretty clear that when talking about billiards, the terms 8 ball, 8-ball, eightball, and eight-ball are all commonly used. I will vote for going with "8 Ball" based on the clear trend in British and American English to do away with the hyphen except in very specific cases. From Hyphen: "The use of the hyphen in English compound nouns and verbs has, in general, been steadily declining." User:Snorkelman
 * Weak Oppose. I don't think this matters very much but I see little at WP:HYPHEN that is on point so turning to common usage, and using a bit of my expertise on all things pool and billiards: A generic search of "the 8 ball" (the "the" here finds usage referring to the ball itself rather than the game) in Google books shows sources are all over the map on this; the same is true for "magic 8 ball". However, searching authoritative and reliable billiard sources, the 8-ball is almost universally hyphenated, See e.g., the World Standardized Rules, The World Rules, The Official Rules of the Billiard Congress of America Pool League, Official rules, American Poolplayers Association (but cf. Official Rules of the International Pool Tour). The bible of instruction, Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards, hyphenates the balls and The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Pool and Billiards, the go-to book for history on the sport, spells out the ball names but hyphenates them (the "seven-ball"). I have about 30 other pool & billiards-specific publications in my collection I could cite ad nauseum for this trend. Note that on Wikipedia, we generally have adopted a standard of not hyphenating the ball's name, to distinguish it from the game (see WikiProject Cue sports/Spelling conventions). I don't think that this internal, inter-article disambiguation scheme speaks at all to what we should title articles.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Three Stooges
The reference Three Stooges movie, You Nazty Spy!, is properly linked to in this article: You Nazty Spy.

That page includes this note: This short predicts the invention of the Magic Eight Ball, a toy that would provide a randomized answer when asked a question and which was created in 1946.

In addition, that page includes this link [], which includes a still from the movie that clearly shows a magic eight ball.

So, it seems to me that the citation is okay - if you feel that it needs a better citation, all of the ingredients are there.

Further, if you don't like the citation, follow the guidelines and mark it as citation needed, don't just delete it.

Snorkelman 18:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snorkelman (talk • contribs)


 * Can you help us find a reliable source that mentions this? The still shown in threestooges.net is a good start, but if we could find a review of the film that explicitly mentions the 8-ball, I think a better case could be made for keeping the Three Stooges info in. 28bytes (talk) 18:42, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

The entire video is shown in two links on YouTube. The second half is here: []. The second half of the video actually starts with the presentation of the Magic 8-Ball. Snorkelman 19:07, 10 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snorkelman (talk • contribs)
 * That isn't a reliable 3rd party source...nor is it a prediction of the subject of this article. It is being treated as a crystal ball. No shaking it, no liquid inside, and no reading of answers...instead a spy is supplying her own made up answers.
 * I reverted for several reasons. First, trivia is highly discouraged per WP:TRIVIA. Second, it is unreferenced and looks like original research. Wikipedia may not reference itself, instead a reference to a reliable 3rd party source should be provided as an inline citation. A reliable source isn't a link to the film or to any website that supports the point. Blogs and personal sites are almost always unacceptable. Instead, the source should be a proper publication (book, magazine, trade journal, news source). If you feel that this should really be in the article, then you will need to find a proper source to merit its inclusion. <b style="color:#00C">⋙–Ber</b><b style="color:#66f">ean–Hun</b><b style="color:#00C">ter—►</b>  (<b style="color:#00C">(⊕)</b>) 19:39, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Look, WP:TRIVIA is totally neutral on the question of whether trivia should be presented in an article - it makes this point in several places. What it discusses is style: facts should not be presented as lists of trivia. So no, when you say trivia is highly discouraged, the source you cite doesn't back you up. In fact, if you look at the three guidelines presented, they suggest leaving trivial material in an article: There are a number of pervasive misunderstandings about this guideline and the course of action it suggests:
 * This guideline does not suggest removing trivia sections, or moving them to the talk page. If information is otherwise suitable, it is better that it be poorly presented than not presented at all.
 * This guideline does not suggest always avoiding lists in favor of prose. Some information is better presented in list format.
 *  This guideline does not suggest the inclusion or exclusion of any information; it only gives style recommendations. Issues of inclusion are addressed by content policies.

As for reliable sources, the first list of reliable sources is the work itself. That is what is referenced here.

You are unquestionably correct about one thing: the magic eight ball used in the Three Stooges clip is clearly not the same as the Magic 8 Ball discussed in this article.

I'm taking a shot at modifying the article in a way that more clearly presents the facts, and I'm doing my best to avoid original research. I would like to keep the note in the article for one important reason: there are lots of sites that scrape wikipedia content, and now many of those have the note that says the movie "predicts" the appearance of the magic 8 ball. It would be nice to have a better version of the facts here. See what you think. --Snorkelman 12:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snorkelman (talk • contribs)


 * A constructive suggestion. You should use colons to indent your responses so that the conversation flows correctly. See Talk page formatting.
 * By source, what is meant is something that is 3rd party that clearly states the point that this predicted this article's subject. The work itself does not do that. Assuming that it does is original research. <b style="color:#00C">⋙–Ber</b><b style="color:#66f">ean–Hun</b><b style="color:#00C">ter—►</b>  (<b style="color:#00C">(⊕)</b>) 14:13, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Official site link
This link: http://www.mattelgamefinder.com/demos.asp?demo=mb copied from the image box is down. It's a stupid flash site, so they probably don't know what permalinks are. -Eagleapex (talk) 15:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

– Replaced the dead link with: http://service.mattel.com/us/product_detail.asp?id=30188&Ntt=30188&Pn=2&Brand=Mattel+Games+and+Puzzles&Cat=Games    <span style="border-bottom: 2px solid #FF0090; font-family:Palatino Linotype, serif; font-size: 115%;"> S enator2029talk 21:05, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

18 sides and answers?
Why does the article say 18 sides when an icosahedron has 20 sides? The ball may have only 18 answers, if some are duplicates. If that is the case, it would be cool to know which are and fix the probability section accordingly.--Knulclunk (talk) 14:27, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * FIXED Found the earlier correct version. It was changed by an IP just a few days ago. --Knulclunk (talk) 14:35, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Differences between models?
One retailer (Amazon) currently sells both a "Mattel 30188 Magic 8 Ball" and a "Magic 8 Ball Retro Edition" (also by Mattel).

The "Retro Edition" is about twice the price of the other one, and the lettering on its packaging appears to be more old-fashioned.

Other than these differences, are there any other differences?

Also: When I first came upon this novelty many years ago, the outer ball seemed to be made of glass, not plastic. Is there a version with glass still available?Daqu (talk) 18:50, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a discussion forum, the talk pages are for discussing how to improve the articles. There's a chance someone might see your question here, but this really isn't the best place to ask, and it's off-topic in any case. &mdash;ajf (talk) 19:32, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

External link is dead
173.24.231.55 (talk) 18:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * fixed ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 21:28, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

23 answers?
Why, when the icosahedron has 20 sides, does this article list 23 answers in the "Possible answers" section? --125.63.26.36 (talk) 05:10, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is due to vandalism. Currently fixed. -Stelio (talk) 11:07, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Things to watch out for.
Hiya! I just looked over the article and made some changes. It was mostly copyediting, fixing sentence structure to make the article more readable, and I reorganized the Pop-Culture section chronologically. However, some glaring issues are still present with the article. Namely, a lot of claims are not coupled with sources. I do not have access to some of the sources listed, so I could not double-check with them. Also, do we want to consider adding a section about mysticism, or would it be to off topic? I thought everyone did a great job already, so big thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mumpsoffun (talk • contribs) 00:45, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 3 May 2022
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved   -- Vaulter  16:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Magic 8-Ball → Magic 8 Ball – Having just reverted a previous undiscussed and incorrect, but good faith, move to lowercase the B, a quick check of the official website shows that this trademark product contains no hyphen in its name. The hyphen is ungrammatical anyway as the "8" is not an adjective here.&#32;oknazevad (talk) 19:52, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). oknazevad (talk) 04:33, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Expanding on the above, the !votes in the previous move request were based on a fundamental misunderstanding. "Eight-ball", with the hyphen, is a game, the name being short for "eight-ball pool", where the hyphen is correct because it's an adjective. However, the toy is modeled after the number 8 ball of a billiard ball set. That is not hyphenated, and subsequently the toy shouldn't be either. oknazevad (talk) 04:33, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Comments copied from prior discussion at WP:RMTR:
 * I agree that the hyphen is ungramatical. But names can be ungrammatical. And in any case, the article largely uses the version with the hyphen. Are you planning to remove the hyphen in the article? Dr. Vogel (talk) 22:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Of course. But I was waiting for the move first. The body is just as erroneous as the title, but the page should match the title until the latter is corrected. As for the name being ungrammatical, the actual name isn't. There was a previous move proposal where the opposers were mistaken in missing the distinction between the game eight-ball (which is so named because it's short for "eight-ball pool", an adjectival usage) and the number eight ball, which is what the toy is modeled after. oknazevad (talk) 00:37, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is not uncontroversial due to previous RM (and the above). Mdewman6 (talk) 00:50, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Support - Any discussion about grammatical correctness is moot when they well-established product name does not include the hyphen (per article references and beyond). -- Netoholic @ 06:10, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support – It doesn't matter what is the general convention in the game of eight-ball or what is the usual name for a billiard ball that has the number 8 on it. What matters is what this specific divination device is commonly called. As far as I can tell, this well-known branded product doesn't usually have a hyphen in its name when it is discussed in reliable sources (or on its packaging or in its advertising). There is also no convincing reason why it ought to have a hyphen – "8-Ball" is not a compound modifier here. Moreover, the proposed title seems more in line with  than the current title. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 13:11, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - "Magic 8 Ball" is consistently the style in which the product is named in official sources. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:06, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support, signs point to yes. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

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