Talk:Magical tools in Wicca/Archive 1

Article rating
I have imported the WikiProject Neopaganism box above and self-rated it as 'Start Class'. I realise self-ratings are not really comme il faut so if this rating could be reviewed by a fellow editor this would be very kind. Kim Dent-Brown  (Talk to me)  13:33, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

"Supposedly"
Hmm... you seem to have objected to my revision on the grounds that the word "supposedly" suggests rationalist skepticism with the alleged magic performed by Wiccans, and that this is redundant with the skepticism expressed by the scare quotes around the word "magical". However, on my browser the scare quotes do not appear; instead they render the word "magical" in bold. Hope my current revision satisfies both problems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.119.78 (talk) 03:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Paten
Why insisting in the use of the word paten? The paten is a typical christian tool in the shape of a little plate used to contain the hosts. The pentacle is not in the shape of any dish or plate, but a disk, and it it is not used to contain anything---kayac71- (talk) 19:24, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Paten
In reference to the word Paten. Just like many things that were adapted to Christianity from Paganism, the paten, which orginially was not a plate but an offering disk onto which the practitioner would place objects upon it to make sacred. Symbols changed over time. Some had runes upon them. Others may have Enochian Sigils. Now the more commonly seen in Neopaganism is the Pentacle representing the earthly elements in conjunction with Ether (Spirit). In more tribal traditions a square is seen on the Paten instead of the Pentacle. The Square represents the number 4 which numerologically speaking is the number of foundation, manifestation, the physical world, the earth. The disk (diskos) represents the earth element being made of either natural clay, wood, or metal and bearing a circular shape representing the earth as well as the cycle of the seasons. One may commonly call this tool "The Pentacle" but the technical name for this is Paten. Formal traditions such as Garderian Wicca as well as Alexandrian Wicca still use the technical and tradition name while in circle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.130.131 (talk) 22:59, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I can assure you that formal traditions such as the Gardnerian Wicca I practice do no such thing! However neither your special knowledge nor mine counts for anything, as neither of us is a reliable source. Find sources that confirm Wiccan usage of the term paten is more common than pentacle and we can rename the section. Until then, no dice. Kim Dent-Brown   (Talk)  20:42, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usfl&c=basics&id=2874 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.130.131 (talk) 23:18, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Stang should NOT redirect to tools of wicca
Stang should not belong to Magical tools in Wicca or wicca in general. Stang is actually described in traditional medieval witchcraft and seen in depictions of witches from early to late medieval times they often dance around it. Now wicca is NOT traditional witchcraft despite claiming solidarity with burn victims and claiming to be modern witches. The stang is not really used by wiccans is just a tool borrowed from traditional witchcraft. In fact there should be traditional witchcraft reconstruction and stang should be placed there in their tools because they aim to actually use it the way was used originally. if you read what wiccans do with stang is nothing they ignore it cause they have no idea how to use it or what to do with it. So why it redirects here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trollworkout (talk • contribs) 19:55, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Description of blade tools
''A sword or a ritual knife, commonly known as an athame, is often used in Wiccan ritual. In Gardnerian Wicca these are associated with the element of fire[5] and in Golden Dawn influenced traditions with air. This is only true, though, of the Dagger, which is painted with a yellow handle. The Sword itself is fire in that it is attributed to Geburah and is under the presidency of Mars. The Sword should not be confused with the Dagger in the Golden Dawn or Hermetic systems. The Dagger is Elemental in nature, the Sword is Planetary/Sephirotic in nature.[12]''

This is somewhat confusing, because it's mixing elements of Golden Dawn and Wicca in the same description, without making a distinction of which traditions are being discussed -ie. This is only true, though, of the Dagger, which is painted with a yellow handle.

The Kabbalisitc correspondences (ie. attribution of the blade to Geburah), were never discussed by Gardiner, AFAIK, and a yellow handled dagger is definitely something from the Golden Dawn. The source material (link [12]) is to Regardie's The Compete Golden Dawn, which doesn't deal with Wicca at all.

I would suggest just eliminating the Golden Dawn elements from this paragraph. Valgrus Thunderaxe (talk) 06:48, 23 October 2021 (UTC)