Talk:Magnum XL-200/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Batard0 (talk · contribs) 04:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll pick this one up. It looks to be in pretty good shape, and I only anticipate some nitpicks here and there. --Batard0 (talk) 04:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Lead

* Should there be a "The" (not in bold) before the Magnum XL-200 and in general before the coaster's name? Do sources call it "the Magnum XL-200" or just "Magnum XL-200"? Do they say things like, "The Magnum XL-200 opened in 1989" or "Magnum XL-200 opened in 1989"? * Can we wikilink "complete-circuit roller coaster"? I don't see an article on it, but perhaps there's a subsection of an article it could be linked to.
 * I just did a quick Google News Archive search and it's a mix of both. If you look at my user page, you'll see all of my GAs and they don't typically have "The" before unless it's in the actual name.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:13, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at this search, it seems to me that the vast majority seem to use "the" in front of the coaster's name (constructions like "the super-fast Magnum XL-200" still are "the Magnum XL-200" constructions). These include most of what I'd consider the more reliable sources, i.e. the NYT, the Toledo Blade, other newspapers. There's some variation, of course, but I think most do use "the". It's not a huge issue, of course, but I'd consider making the switch, the style of other GAs notwithstanding. --Batard0 (talk) 06:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:17, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There's no article or subsection for it. The opposite of a complete-circuit roller coaster is a shuttle roller coaster and that does have an article.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:17, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's odd. Perhaps we could redlink it -- maybe someone will create this article one day. --Batard0 (talk) 06:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have actually redirected the page to Roller coaster. I don't think that article would ever be created because 99% of roller coasters are complete-circuit.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 17:06, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

* Instead of "Most recently, in 2012, it was ranked 8th" I suggest "It was ranked 8th in 2012." This is simpler, more concise and says the same thing. History
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd recommend removing "has been quoted as saying he" in the following: "Dick Kinzel has been quoted as saying he was one of the first few to ride". Is there any reason to doubt the veracity of Kinzel's claim? Because this phrasing suggests that while he was quoted as saying he was one of the first, he may not have been.

* I'd suggest combining the last two sentences of the first para, like so: "It officially opened to the public on May 6, 1989 and was measured for the Guinness Book of World Records on June 2." (with all the refs after the period) * "ACE Coaster Landmark" --> spell out to "ACE Roller Coaster Landmark award" * "Over its entire history, Magnum has only been repainted once." --> "Magnum has been repainted only once in its history" reads more clearly. * "The original color was scarlet red. In 2005, the park started painting Magnum moly orange." --> "The original color was scarlet red, but the park started painting Magnum moly orange in 2005" reads more clearly. * In "Cedar Point celebrated Magnum's 20th anniversary on opening day in 2009 with a ceremony. There was an appearance by Ron Toomer, the designer of Magnum and a new entrance sign was introduced" I suggest: "Cedar Point celebrated Magnum's 20th anniversary on opening day in 2009 with a ceremony and an appearance by Ron Toomer, its designer. A new entrance sign was also introduced." This reads a bit more clearly. * The name of the roller coaster is italicized sometimes and not italicized other times. This should be consistent throughout.
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 17:08, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:20, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:25, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:27, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * wikilink "scarlet red" and "moly orange"
 * , no article for moly orange.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:23, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest redlinking it in this case. --Batard0 (talk) 06:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:29, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 17:18, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 17:21, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * In "Magnum XL-200 has been the target of false rumors claiming that the structure was sinking due to unstable ground." When did these rumors appear? We'll need some dates or years at least. It would be better to say "Magnum XL-200 was the target of rumors in YEAR claiming its structure was sinking due to unstable ground. The rumor was thought to have begun as an April Fools Day joke in an Ohio newspaper, but quickly spread via the Internet. Cedar Point issued a statement calling the rumor false."
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:40, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The history section doesn't have any background about why the people at Cedar Point decided to introduce the ride or how it fits into the context of the park's history. Was the park successful but wanted to make a statement? Did the coaster help return the park to profitability after many years of losses? Did they want a "signature" ride to distinguish it from the competition? How many years was it in the planning stages, who was behind it, and how much did it cost to build? (this is in the info box but should be in the body and be sourced). Are there any figures on how many people have ridden the coaster in its history?
 * I have actually found a source that addresses nearly all that information. Keep in mind that for other roller coaster articles, that would be hard to find but since Magnum is so significant, there's a lot more history to it.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:33, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This is good stuff -- although I don't see a source for it yet. There's some material you might find useful on the history of the park in Cedar Point, which I also reviewed for GA a while back. We should add how the coaster fits into the broader history of the park, not just that Kenzel wanted XYZ, but also something like "Cedar Point is one of the oldest and largest amusement parks in the U.S., having been operated as a recreation destination since the end of the 19th century. By the mid-1980s, it had grown into a successful collection of about a dozen roller coasters and many other smaller rides on the shores of Lake Erie. Dick Kenzel took over as president and CEO of Cedar Fair, the company that operates the park, in 1986, and the Magnum XL-200 was the first significant addition to the park under his leadership. Kenzel wanted a ride that emphasized steep falls and negative g-forces over loops and spins." Something like this -- not necessarily this exactly -- would set the context in which the ride was built. --Batard0 (talk) 04:38, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll finish adding some more stuff then look into that. The thing about Cedar Point is that it is (was) all about what Kinzel wanted. It might sound strange when everything says what Kinzel wanted but he was so focused on being the best, the highest and the fastest so most of its decisions were all done by him.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 04:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:34, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Queue

* "queue line" doesn't make any sense, as a line is another word for a queue. Maybe just "queue" here.
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 06:29, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

More to come... --Batard0 (talk) 05:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

* Strike "located" as unnecessary (for conciseness). * Suggest: "The queue is in a shaded area surrounded by trees and shrubs, and is filled with posters listing facts about the ride" (removes unnecessary comma, combines sentences) * "The area is typically filled with music from the 1980s, staying true to the decade it debuted. The queue also features a DJ booth similar to Millennium Force and Raptor, however it is not used for a DJ anymore." : This bit could be made more concise and clear. A suggestion: "Music from the 1980s is typically played in the queue area, true to the decade in which the ride debuted. There is a DJ booth next to the queue, but it is no longer in use." * remove "located" in reference to the sentence about the Fast Lane entrance. It's unnecessary. * I suggest: "The Fast Lane entrance is near the exit of the ride; it joins the regular line near the bottom of the stairs leading to the station." This is for clarity. * I'm not very comfortable with the single reference for the Queue section to a Flickr image of the Fast Lane entrance. Are there any reliable sources that describe this? Not every single thing necessarily needs a source, and few people are likely to challenge details about the queue, but any improperly sourced material could potentially be removed under policy, and we don't want that to happen to GAs. Maybe there's at minimum a website about coasters somewhere that has a description of the line? Even Cedar Point's website would be reliable for these purposes. Layout
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 17:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 17:22, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:42, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have added another source that has more photos of the queue area.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

To come... --Batard0 (talk) 11:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

* The first sentence of this section is problematic, because it doesn't help me locate the layout with any precision. Moreover, it is repeated (except for the part about the Sandcastle Suites hotel) in the paragraph that follows. I recommend removing this sentence and incorporating it into the following para. * In this section's main paragraph, I think it will be better if we incorporate compass directions. For someone unfamiliar with the layout, it's almost impossible to understand or picture in its current state. I'm thinking something like: "The train departs the station and travels north over the walkway leading to Soak City and Challenge Park. It then turns 65 degrees to the right and begins the 205-foot (62 m) climb to the top of the lift hill." and so forth (bolded words are not correct; they're for illustration only). This gives readers a much clearer sense of how the ride is laid out, I think. * A couple suggested changes in the sentence, "It then drops 195 feet (59 m) at a 60 degree angle reaching a top speed of 72 miles per hour (116 km/h)." --> "It drops 195 feet (59 m) at a 60-degree angle, reaching a top speed of 72 miles per hour (116 km/h)." We don't need to start with "It then" here because people know what happens after a coaster gets to the top of a hill. I also hyphenated 60-degree (it's a compound adjective) and put a comma after "angle" to separate a subordinate clause. * "After the third hill, the train enters the "pretzel" turn-a-around" --> "After the third hill, it enters a "pretzel" turn-a-around". We've already said "the train" enough; we can substitute "it" here. And it should be "a pretzel," as "the pretzel" implies that it's been mentioned before. * "curves to the left heading towards the beach then curving left again into another tunnel" --> "curves to the left toward the beach and then left again into another tunnel" is more concise and says the same thing. * "On the way back" from what? * "there are a total of seven "bunny hops" and two tunnels." --> "there are seven "bunny hops" and two tunnels." Removed "a total of" because its removal doesn't affect the meaning. It may be wise here to explain what a "bunny hop" is. Is it a small hill? * "After the last tunnel, the train turns left back over the walkway to Soak City and Challenge Park then turning right, into the brake run" --> "After the last tunnel, the train turns left and goes back over the walkway to Soak City and Challenge Park. It then turns right and begins its brake run." This is clearer and fixes some grammatical issues. Trains
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:26, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:26, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "a set of trims brakes can be found in the first curve of the turnaround because there is no mid-course brake run" -- could you explain this parenthetical? I'm having a tough time understanding it and its purpose. I don't know what trims brakes are, nor do I understand a mid-course brake run.
 * I have linked these terms.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:01, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's helpful, but I think it would be even better if we could put a very short description in the body of the article so as not to force people to chase wikilinks. I'm thinking a subclause or two, not even a whole sentence. --Batard0 (talk) 06:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:45, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:12, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

* "Magnum XL-200 features three, white and black trains." --> "Magnum XL-200 has three white-and-black trains." "Features" is a word used in promotional materials, but we must abide by WP:NPOV. I hope I'm getting this right – that there are three trains, each of which is painted white and black. Since in this context white-and-black is a compound adjective, it takes hyphens. * "Each train has six cars with riders arranged two across in three rows for a total of 36 rides per train." --> "Each train has six cars; riders are arranged two-across in three rows for a total of 36 riders per train." I think the prose here is a little clearer. I'm trying to understand the arrangement of the cars, though: is "two across" an arrangement where two sets of two people sit side by side facing each other? If that's so, what does "three rows" mean? Or are we saying (I think this is it) that two-across is simply two people sitting side by side, both facing forward. Thus you have three rows of two people each per car (2 * 3 = 6) and six cars, which means there are 36 people per train (6 * 6). If this is the case, I think it might be clearer to say "riders sit in pairs facing forward, with three rows of seats per car for a total of 36 riders per train" * This sentence: "Additionally, each train has a colored striping at the front either red, black, or blue." should come after the first sentence, which describes the colors of the trains. But I think it should be, "Each train has red, black or blue striping at the front." for clarity. * "Magnum was the first coaster that Arrow Dynamics used their traditional Hypercoaster trains" -- Should this be removed? It was the first-ever hypercoaster, so it of course had to be the first coaster with hypercoaster trains. Otherwise I could see saying something like, "Magnum was the first coaster on which Arrow Dynamics used its Hypercoaster trains, which were subsequently installed on dozens of other new rides." * "Lapbar" needn't be capitalized. * We'll need to explain (or at the very least wikilink) "up-stop wheels". * "Instead, it used pads, similar to those used on Gemini (which are still used on Gemini)." --> "It instead used pads similar to those still in use on Gemini". This is shorter and clearer. Track
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:07, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:26, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:26, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd recommend rephrasing this entire paragraph to the following: "When Magnum XL-200 opened, it used pads similar to those still in use on Gemini. Shortly after its debut, however, more traditional up-stop wheels were added to the trains." Now, what is a pad? Are we talking about brake pads? And what is an up-stop wheel? These should be explained in the article for accessibility. We can't expect readers to know all these things. And are up-stop wheels really more traditional than pads if pads are still installed on older coasters?
 * I have added some more info.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:39, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

* "The steel track is 5,106 feet (1,556 m) in length and the height of the lift is approximately 205 feet (62 m)." --> "Magnum XL-200's steel track is 5,106 feet (1,556 m) in length, and its main hill is approximately 205 feet (62 m) high." This is clearer. * "Magnum XL-200 originally featured scarlet red track" --> "originally had" per same "featured" issue as above. * "Magnum XL-200 originally featured scarlet red track with silver supports but in 2005, the track was repainted moly orange, the silver supports remained." --> "Magnum XL-200 originally had a scarlet red track with silver supports. The track was repainted moly orange in 2005, but the silver supports remained." This is clearer. * "The track that consists of a tubular steel spine connected to the outside of tubular steel running rails." I'm a bit confused by this sentence, which lacks a verb. Is it: "The track consists of a tubular steel spine connected by struts to tubular steel running rails."? That's what I see in the picture. * "a out and back" --> "an out and back" * I'm not convinced this belongs in the "track" section: "It is classified as a Hypercoaster and a out and back roller coaster." Isn't this more about its layout or its history, and not its track? * "When it opened, a steel out and back roller coaster without any loops was unheard of, making Magnum more unique." -- I recommend removing "making Magnum more unique" since this is already conveyed with "unheard-of" (which takes a hyphen, by the way), and in any case "more unique" is not a proper construction; there are no degrees of uniqueness. Things are either unique or not unique. * We're saying "Part of the roughness of Magnum is due to the fact that the pieces were welded together and not computer generalized." But we haven't said the ride is rough. So we'll have to say something like: "Magnum is not a smooth-riding roller coaster, partly because its pieces were welded together unassisted by computer design". I don't think "computer generalized" is the right phrase here, unless we can wikilink it or explain it more clearly. Accident
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:24, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:24, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Astros4477 ( talk ) 22:24, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:45, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 00:45, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

* comma after "2007". * "First Aid Station" --> "first aid station". No caps needed here. * Remove "on May 27", since we just said it was May 26 and we are talking about the next day. * put "he said" after the quote, i.e. "heavy rain storms we had in the morning," he said. Operation
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:37, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:37, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:37, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:37, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I recommend a rephrase of the first sentence as "As a high-altitude and high-velocity ride, Magnum XL-200 is negatively affected by unfavorable weather conditions." Also note "unfavorable" doesn't have a "u" in it in American English, which I assume we're using here.


 * Where is the quote in the first para coming from? There's no close-quote, and it is completely unattributed.


 * "Some persons over a certain weight/waist size will not be permitted to ride" --> "Some people over a certain weight and waist size are not permitted to ride" is better. --Batard0 (talk) 18:30, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * "Passengers on Magnum may not bring any loose articles onto the train and will be required to wear shirts and footwear." --> "Passengers may not bring any loose articles onto the train and are required to wear shirts and footwear." (grammar, no need to say "Magnum" here)


 * "Passengers are advised that they must not ride Magnum if they have "a history of recent surgery, heart trouble/high blood pressure, neck trouble, back trouble, or any other condition that may be aggravated by riding, or who are pregnant"." --> "Passengers are told not to ride Magnum if they have "a history of recent surgery, heart trouble/high blood pressure, neck trouble, back trouble, or any other condition that may be aggravated by riding, or who are pregnant"." but according to what? This quote is unattributed.

* "Magnum XL-200 was awarded the ACE Coaster Landmark because of its inspiration for more than a dozen similar rides on three continents, and for being the first hypercoaster" --> "It won the award because it inspired more than a dozen similar rides on three continents and because it was the first hypercoaster." This is clearer and doesn't repeat what's in the previous sentence.
 * ✅-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:41, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I have actually removed this entire section per discussion here.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Fix these and I think we'll be well on the way. The most critical thing, though, is to get in some more context and background to fulfill the broadness criterion. --Batard0 (talk) 18:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I think I have managed to address all these issues.-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 21:46, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, good work. The history section is much improved. I've made some other adjustments and copyedits to the added material; you should take a look. If you're fine with these, I'll list it. Otherwise, let me know what you disagree with and we'll discuss. --Batard0 (talk) 04:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep it all looks good. Thanks for reviewing it!-- Astros4477 ( talk ) 04:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)