Talk:Maharishi Effect

Meaning?
There may be word/words missing here. I'm not sure what this means:(olive (talk) 21:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC)) "According to a 1987 Los Angeles Times article, it is the alleged benefit for a society in which there are a small number of practitioners of the Transcendental Meditation technique." 

I'll be happy top ad a clarification to the text.(olive (talk) 21:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC))


 * Looks like someone forgot to sign their name above. The source says:
 * Their mission started 13 years ago at the Maharishi International University (MIU) in Fairfield, Iowa when MIU researchers observed a sharp drop in crime, accidents and sickness in four nearby cities. They concluded that the drop was caused by a sort of sympathetic vibration emitted from the maharishi's disciples at MIU meditating together. Dubbed "the Maharishi Effect," this phenomenon convinced the maharishi to declare a new world order and the beginning of "the Age of Enlightenment" (not to be confused with the historical period of philosophy that included Locke, Berkeley and Hume). Attempting to re-create the Maharishi Effect on a global level, the maharishi claims to be turning to ancient Vedic traditions of music and health as a way to raise world consciousness. "Gandharva is the eternal music of nature," says Jonathan Rosen, tour coordinator for the musicians. He has taught at MIU for 15 years. full article can be seen here-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 21:31, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've amended the text and cited a scholarly source instead, leaving the LA Times source there as a supportive source. Here's my edit See what you think.-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:34, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Text not what sources says
I have moved this sentence and source here (taken it out of the article) for consideration as to how it should be amended. PS the source is not a "study" but a rebuttal to criticisms of a prior research study. So how should this source be utilized in the article? -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:29, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Text removed--A 1986 study on the Maharishi Effect, by researchers at Maharishi University of Management said that a minimum of about 100 practitioners would be needed for there to be observable coherence. ref name=Alexander1986/
 * Source says: "In a community of 100, both 1% and the square root of 1% would equal one person. Clearly, this would not even constitute a group! None of the over twenty square root of 1% studies accepted for publication in Scientific Research on the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi Program, vol. 4, was on a population smaller than a million because it was decided that small groups of less than approximately 100 may not reliably produce such amplification effects."

Editing problem (press releases as sources)
First there is only one source cited, so there is only one description and second that source is a TM press release. The ME is a theory and though is has been the focus of several published studies, it is not part of mainstream science. Therefore we need to take care to use solid sources and I'd like to see us use scholarly sources as much as possible. In any case should stay way from questionable sources like this press release IMO on this rather technical topic. -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:44, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Current article text: In other descriptions, the effect begins when the numbers of practitioners are below the threshold.


 * I'd avoid the use of press releases. TimidGuy (talk) 11:58, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

OK then on that basis I've removed the following content supported only by a TM press release:
 * In other descriptions, the effect begins when the numbers of practitioners are below the threshold.
 * A January 2008 press release by the TM movement states that "many times the required number of Yogic Flyers have been trained to create invincibility for the whole world" and large groups of practitioners have been assembled from time to time in an attempt to demonstrate the theoretical result.
 * -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 23:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Good. There's a fair amount of additional material sourced to press releases related to the IA Assembly. I think that could also be removed. TimidGuy (talk) 11:24, 11 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify my thoughts on press releases. I think they are OK if they report a widely accepted fact. But if the press release makes a claim, especially one about a non-mainstream theory, it is not appropriate. Let's look at each one and discuss them below.--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 19:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Cite 29
In 1996, Guy Hatchard, the director of the movement's Skelmersdale facility,[29] and four Maharishi University professors published an analysis of the Maharishi Effect on crime in Merseyside, England (a metropolitan high crime area which includes Liverpool) from 1988 to 1992. Hatchard, who holds an M.A. in education from Maharishi International University,[29] 29) ^ a b "British study shows Transcendental Meditation is a proven and cost-effective way to reduce crime" (Press release). Natural Law Party of the United Kingdom. April 25, 1996. Archived from the original on September 7, 2010.
 * --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 19:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Cite 48
John Hagelin organized the Invincible America Assembly in Fairfield, Iowa on July 23, 2006 as a demonstration of the Maharishi Effect. Hagelin said in a press release announcing the project that "for the United States, with a population of just over 300 million, the required number of peace-creating experts is 1,730".[48] 48) ^ "Meditators Fly for Peace" (Press release). July 25, 2007. Archived from the original on September 7, 2010.
 * --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 19:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Cite 50
In addition, Hagelin's Institute for Science Technology and Public Policy web site says that the Invincible America Assembly in Iowa "is rising quickly toward its target of 2,500".[50] 50) ^ "Invincible America Assembly Nears Goal of 2500 Participants" (Press release). February 2008. Archived from the original on September 7, 2010.
 * --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 19:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Potential source
Foundations of a Global Spiritual Awakening By Edgar John Burns--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 21:33, 15 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It's self-published. It sure gives a good overview, with lots of definitions, etc. It makes a useful distinction between the "Maharishi Effect" and the "extended Maharishi Effect." Per WP:SELFPUB, it might be useful to help shape the article and provide explanation and definitions. But it certainly can't be used to make any claims. I think it's the best overview I've seen. TimidGuy (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh didn't notice it was self pub. Good catch.--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 16:15, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, I think the self pub limits its use--Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 16:13, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Another potential source
Best results are seen when approximately 8,000 yogic flyers gather in one place. This produces "the Maharishi effect", described as an "upsurge in harmony and social coherence enveloping the Earth". --cite news|title=Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says: Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military|first=James |last=Astill |work=The Guardian|location=Manchester (UK)|date=September 22, 2001|page=19|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 22:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/174188.pdf. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:17, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Though I have not had time yet to look at the sources cited above I appreciate the watchful eye. All here are good faith editors who I'm sure want to conform to this important guideline. Thanks. --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 17:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It would be interesting to locate the person who added the text. It may be a systematic issue. IRWolfie- (talk) 11:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The text seems to have been added by in this edit to the article TM-Sidhi program. There's no doubt that it closely follows previously published sources, as demonstrated by the google text search - and specifically this 2006 book. (The source was identified by the very helpful User:Zad68 at my talk page.) It seems that such improper copying from source texts may have been an issue at that time. Because of this, I have restored the close paraphrasing tag to the article. Content imported here from TM-Sidhi program will need checking for lingering plagiarism and close paraphrasing. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The 2009 edit cited above was clearly a mistake on my part. An unintentional mistake I made during my first several months of editing. However, I take responsibility for the error and I have today checked through all of my edits on the TM-Sidhi program article (which this article was split from) for the period 2009 to the present and though there were one or two additional edits of some concern, none of the content from those edits is present in the current versions of TM-Sidhi program or Maharishi Effect articles. So to the best of my knowledge there is not any copyvio issues remaining in this article. However, I'll leave it to others to remove the tag.--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 16:13, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure of the dynamics of how one accidentally pastes a paragraph from a source into an article, so I think it is best if the tag stays. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the statement-- "I have today checked through all of my edits on the TM-Sidhi program article (which this article was split from) for the period 2009 to the present and though there were one or two additional edits of some concern, none of the content from those edits is present in the current versions of TM-Sidhi program or Maharishi Effect articles"-- is pretty clear. But if you wish to maintain the tag anyway as a 'badge of shame' on the article,  in contrast to what the WP:TC guideline says, please be my guest. --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 17:28, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You say you checked, but then I found two large paragraphys copy and pasted in; I don't think it is unreasonable to give little weight to your assertion that there is no more copyvio left when you had checked whenever that was. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Wolfie you are talking in circles. I stated above on April 16th that I had checked all my additions to the TM Sidhi program and Maharishi Effect articles and made any necessary corrections. Please provide diffs to substantiate your accusations and assertions that you have found copyvio issues in this article since April 16th. Thanks. --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 18:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have rewritten the questionable paragraph and I am removing the template as I can not find anything else. Please free to restore it if other issues have been found.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:19, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ymblanter for your balanced comments and constructive contributions. Best, --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 03:01, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Off topic?
This content below appears to be off topic. Comments?
 * In 2007, Emanuel Schiffgens, Raja of Germany and film director David Lynch were presenting a plan to build the Invincible Germany University atop Teufelsberg (literally: "Devils Mountain", built with the rubble of Berlin during the twenty years of rebuilding the city), near the German capital. but created controversy at a lecture in Berlin when Schiffgens exhorted the audience to create an "Invincible Germany". When a student retorted "That's exactly what Hitler wanted", Raja Schiffgens replied "ake things worse, when some guy shouted, “Adolf Hitler wanted the same!”, his answer was: “Yes, but unfortunately he didn’t succeed because he didn’t have the right technique", enraging the crowd. Schiffgens then tried to explain to the crowd that invincibility meant no negativity. --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> •  Talk  • 15:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I removed it as off topic. I don't think it's particularly encyclopedic either way. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)