Talk:Mahatma Gandhi/Archive 18

F&f's sources: Gandhi's last fast & cash assets owed to Pakistan
The citations below support the disputed sentences, which are in green and have been deleted: "In the months following, he undertook several hunger strikes to stop the religious violence. The last of these, begun in Delhi on 12 January 1948 when he was 78, also had the goal of pressuring India to pay out some cash assets owed to Pakistan, which the Indian government had resisted. Although the Government of India soon relented, as did the religious rioters, the belief that Gandhi had been too resolute in his defence of both Pakistan and Indian Muslims spread among some Hindus in India."


 * Note: If you don't like "undertook several hunger strikes," and I have to say, I'm not entirely comfortable with that construction, we could change it to: "he went on hunger strikes several times to stop ...."
 * Note 2: Although, Gandhi made a distinction between a hunger strike and a "fast to the death," or "unto death," the “fast,” being a religious experience of self-transformation and an exemplary act ... (See Banu Bargu Gandhi's fasts), in an encyclopedia, "hunger strike" is probably more widely understood.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  01:56, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Please note:
 * WP:SOURCETYPES: When available, academic and peer-reviewed publications, scholarly monographs, and textbooks are usually the most reliable sources. and
 * WP:TERTIARY: "Many introductory undergraduate-level textbooks are regarded as tertiary sources because they sum up multiple secondary sources. Policy: Reliable tertiary sources can help provide broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources and may help evaluate due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other.
 * WP:SCHOLARSHIP: Citation counts – One may be able to confirm that discussion of the source has entered mainstream academic discourse by checking what scholarly citations it has received in citation indexes or lists such as DOAJ. Works published in journals not included in appropriate databases, especially in fields well covered by them, might be isolated from mainstream academic discourse, though whether it is appropriate to use will depend on the context.
 * WP:HSC: Historical scholarship is a group process by a community of experts on a specialized topic of historiography, who read and critique each other's work. Material submitted for scholarly publication is vetted by editors and outside advisers. ... Scholarly books are reviewed in the history journals, with the goal of evaluating the originality and contribution, and pointing out misinterpretations or mistakes. ... Historical scholarship may include: University level textbooks that summarize the scholarly literature.

Introductory undergraduate or graduate textbooks written by scholars

 * 1) Google Scholar Citation Index 613
 * 2) Google Scholar citation index (volume 2) 33Google Scholar Citation Index (volume 1) 252
 * 3) Google Scholar citation index 560
 * 4) Lloyd I. Rudolph and Susanne Hoeber Rudolph, In Pursuit of Lakshmi: The Political Economy of the Indian State, University of Chicago Press, [Google Scholar citation index 1,470, who say, "Patel was not a committed or convinced secularist. His call for Muslims to pledge their loyalty to India as a condition of citizenship after partition, his one-sided defense of Hindus during the communal rioting and carnage that accompanied partition, and his refusal to honor India's commitment to turn over to Pakistan the assets due it were the occasion of Gandhi's last fast in January 1948. The riots in Delhi abated; Patel, after being told by Gandhi on the verge of death, "you are not the Sardar I knew," turned over the assets and deferred to Gandhi's call for brotherhood and forgiveness.
 * 5) Barbara D. Metcalf (past president of the American Historical Association) and Thomas R. Metcalf, authors of A Concise History of Modern India, Cambridge, 2012, Google Scholar citation index 965, say, "Just before his death, Gandhi made one last decisive intervention in the Indian political process. By a combination of prayer and fasting, he forced a contrite ministry to hand over to Pakistan its share of the cash assets of undivided India, some 40 million pounds sterling, which had so far been retained in defiance of the partition agreements.
 * 6) Sumit Sarkar, author of Modern India, 1885–1947, Macmillan, Google Scholar citation index 1,579, who says, "This last fast seems to have been directed in part also against Patel’s increasingly communal attitudes (the Home Minister had started thinking in terms of a total transfer of population in the Punjab, and was refusing to honour a prior agreement by which India was obliged to give 55 crores of pre-Partition Government of India financial assets to Pakistan). ‘You are not the Sardar I once knew,’ Gandhi is said to have remarked during the fast."
 * 7) Ian Talbot, author of A History of South Asia, Yale University Press, 2016, Gooogle Scholar citation index 42, says: "Disputes over Kashmir and the division of assets and water in the aftermath of Partition increased Pakistan’s anxieties regarding its much larger neighbor. Kashmir’s significance for Pakistan far exceeded its strategic value; its “illegal” accession to India challenged the state’s ideological foundations and pointed to a lack of sovereign fulfillment. The “K” in Pakistan’s name stood for Kashmir. Of less symbolic significance was the division of post-Partition assets. Not until December 1947 was an agreement reached on Pakistan’s share of the sterling assets held by the undivided Government of India at the time of independence. The bulk of these (550 million rupees) was held back by New Delhi because of the Kashmir conflict and paid only following Gandhi’s intervention and fasting. India delivered Pakistan’s military equipment even more tardily, and less than a sixth of the 160,000 tons of ordnance allotted to Pakistan by the Joint Defence Council was actually delivered.
 * 8) Ian Copland, India 1885-1947: The Unmaking of an Empire, Routledge, 2001, [ Google Scholar Citation Index 53], says, "Gandhi was adamant that the debt to Pakistan had to be paid, and in January 1948 he announced that he planned to embark on another indefinite fast to ensure that the Indian government fulfilled its legal and moral obligations. The Mahasabha and the RSS denounced this plan as tantamount to treason. In the early evening of 30 January, as he addressed a prayer meeting at Birla House, New Delhi, India’s prince of peace was shot and killed by a member of an RSS splinter-group, Nathuram Godse.
 * 9) Hermann Kulke and Dietmar Rothermund, in History of India, Routledge, Google Scholar citation index 938, say, "While Jinnah departed with such good advice Gandhi was trying hard to stop the carnage which broke out after partition and to work for good relations between India and Pakistan. When the violence in the Panjab spilled over into India he rushed to Delhi from Bengal, where he had been at the time of partition. With a great fast he attempted to bring his countrymen to their senses. Then the Kashmir conflict led to an undeclared war between India and Pakistan and at this very point it was debated how and why the funds of the Indian treasury should be divided between India and Pakistan. Many Hindus felt that Pakistan had forfeited its claim to a share of these funds by attacking India in Kashmir, and that it would be the height of folly to hand over such funds to finance an aggressor’s war effort. Gandhi, however, pleaded for evenhanded justice. The Congress had approved of partition and was in honour bound to divide the assets equitably. To radical Hindus, this advice amounted to high treason, and one of them, a young Brahmin named Nathuram Godse, shot Gandhi on 30 January 1948.

Monographs, book chapters, or journal articles written by scholars

 * 1) Dennis Dalton in Mahatma Gandhi: Non-violent power in action, Columbia University Press, Google Scholar citation index 439, quotes A. C. B. Symon, the British High Commissioner to India, whose office was across the street from Birla House, where Gandhi lived during the last five months of his life, and who observed Gandhi closely, "It would be a mistaken impression, however, to suppose that Gandhi devoted these last months of his life exclusively to social and humanitarian tasks. Through this constant stream of visitors he was able to keep in remarkably close touch with Indian opinion and continued to play a most important role as the principal adviser of the Indian government on all major political issues. Scarcely any important decision was taken without his prior advice, whether the subject was the movement and rehabilitation of refugees, Congress policy or the Kashmir issue.  And when he disagreed with any decision taken it was not long, as in the recent case of the non-implementation of the Indo-Pakistan financial agreement, before he took determined and successful steps to have it revoked.... Gandhi entered upon what proved to be the last of his many fasts.  His actions immediately evoked expressions of goodwill from all over the world including Pakistan and on the third day of the fast the Indian Government as a gesture to him announced their willingness, in flat contradiction to their determination of a few days previously, to implement the recently concluded Indo-Pakistan financial agreements.
 * 2) Noting: the title has "the call of the conscience" (rather than the more common "the call of conscience")
 * 3) Google Scholar citation index 161
 * 4) Google Scholar citation index 35
 * 5) Google Scholar citation index 43
 * 6) Google Scholar citation index 228
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 43
 * 2) Google Scholar citation index 228
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 228
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 228
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 228
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 228
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 228

Trade books written by scholars

 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 65

Trade books written by others (journalists, etc.)
Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  14:23, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 110
 * 1) Google Scholar citation index 110
 * Please do not add your own sources here. You may in the discussion section below.

Discussion
First source (Rajmohan Gandhi) is not providing any evidence but only attached the misinformation like few of your earlier sources.

Second source (Vinay lal) is showing that the author of the book is making a connection based on his own opinion.

Third source (Rajmohan Gandhi) says "Venkatappayya referred to the moral degradation of Congress legislators who made money by protecting criminals. His last sentence was: 'The people have begun to say that the British government was much better.' Gandhi found the letter 'too shocking for words'. He had to do, or give, more. But what, and how? On the morning of 12 January he found complete peace. Every unease, sense of shame, and feeling of inadequacy left Gandhi as the 'conclusion flashed upon him' that he must fast and not resume eating until and unless firm steps are taken." This means that Pakistani payment did not caused him to protest but a number of various issues. Still, no evidence.

Fourth source (Sarwar) has the same issue as the first one.

So the 2 requirements are still not met. 1) Evidence that Gandhi demanded 55 crore to be handed to Pakistan, 2) The source is addressing the debunking of the said misleading claim. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:21, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * May I ask, what debunking? I haven't read the whole previous discussion yet but did check all the sources mentioned in your initial post and there is nothing worthwhile there (I can expand on the reasoning later if anyone wishes). Are there any better sources "debunking" the claim that the RS 55 crore transfer was one of Gandhi's (at least implicit) goals/motivation for the fast? Abecedare (talk) 16:34, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have added one more&mdash;Arvind Sharma's spiritual biography of Gandhi, Yale, 2013. Sharma is quite explicit.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  18:05, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Jawaharlal Nehru said on 15 January regarding this connection between the fast and 55 crore transfer: "That fast, of course, had nothing to do with this particular matter, and we have thought of it because of our desire to help in every way in easing the present tension."
 * Raghuvendra Tanwar notes that "Looked at carefully each of the seven main issues was only an attempt by Gandhi to restore the confidence of the Muslims who had been traumatized. None of the points even remotely referred to the transfer of the cash balance to Pakistan." He added: "Prime Minister Nehru was naturally the first to state that even though Gandhi had been consulted on the issue, the decision to transfer the cash balance to Pakistan had nothing to do with his fast. The Prime Minister also said: 'we have come to this decision in the hope that the gesture in accord with India's high ideals and Gandhiji's noble standards will convince the world of our earnest desire for peace'."
 * I am sure this is more than enough to put the issue at rest. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 11:09, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The Nehru statement is a primary source whose veracity and politics is for historians, and not us, to judge and so wouldn't play any direct role in the discussion here. I will look up the Tanwar source though and add any comments later (busy IRL so may be later today or even the weekend). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 11:43, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I was able to read up several reviews of the Tanwar book (which are mixed,, , ) but unfortunately I don't have immediate access to the book itself. Could you email me the relevant pages where Tanwar discusses Gandhi's final fast so that I can view the quotes you provided in context? Let me know if that would be possible and I'll share my email id with you.
 * PS: There may be an expectation that one, two or a few sources will settle the issue by proving/debunking the link between the fast and the transfer of funds. Given the amount of scholarship on the subject, that is almost surely unreasonable. As I see it, the question is more about how the various views should be weighed and how the language in the lede and article body crafted to best summarize the scholarly corpus. Abecedare (talk) 22:45, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Emailed. Here is another reliable source which also rejects the claim about asset transfer to Pakistan: India-Pakistan: An analysis of some structural factors, Lars Blinkenberg, Odense University Press, p. 144.
 * It notes that: Mountbatten found some mystery in Gandhi's last fast, and Kripalani thought that Gandhi was under great mental strain and in poor health, but he underlines that the fast was not directed against Patel. He confirms that Gandhi personally denied this to his secretary, Pyarelal. Maulana Azad, on the other hand, just like Durga Das, confirms "that, in a sense, the fast was directed against the attitude of Sardar Patel, he ( Patel ) knew it". Azad also explains that Gandhi put forward the exact conditions he wanted fulfilled in order to terminate his fast (the list specifying these conditions did not mention the transfer of money to Pakistan). He received the undertaking from representatives of the Hindu and Muslim communities, that they would assure that further communal disturbances would not take place, in Delhi.
 * It is true that while Maulana Azad wrote the fast "in a sense" was directed against the attitude of Patel, but the reason was: "Patel had not only failed to give protection to Muslims, but he lightheartedly dismissed any complaint made on this account." It was not related to the payment to Pakistan. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 17:33, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Also see Recording the Progress of Indian History: Symposia Papers of the Indian History Congress, 1992-2010, p. 254, Saiyid Zaheer Husain Jafri, Primus Books, "Only a tiny section of Maharashtrians brought up in a particular school of thought were vehement critics of Gandhi; they accused him of showing partially to Muslims, and of favouring Pakistan by his fast coercing the Nehru Government to transfer Rs. 55 crore to Pakistan, and finally killed him. In reality, according to C.D. Deshmukh the then Governor of the Reserve Bank of India, has recorded that the amount transferred was legitimately due to Pakistan."
 * Jafri cited C. D. Deshmukh, Governor of the Reserve Bank of India. Deshmukh in his book says Gandhi's "advice was not accepted". He writes: "My view was that a promise made by Government in mis respect must be redeemed; as the ordinary ways and means requirements of Pakistan were around four to six crores rupees per month, it was also proper that, after having agreed to have a common central tank, the Reserve Bank should grant some accommodation to Pakistan until the establishment of a separate central bank for Pakistan, due to take place on April 1, 1948. I put this point of view before Government when I was called to Delhi for consultations but the suggestion was turned down. Early in January, Mr. ZafErullah Khan, the Pakistan Foreign Minister, complained about this blocking and the whole matter, by the sinister amalgam of accusation and abuse, received a most unholy publicity. Gandhiji naturally took the view that it would be wrong for India to go back on her word. Even his advice was not accepted; then came his last fast and the decision — announced by Shri Nehru — that the Financial Agreement would be implemented forthwith. I still feel that the emergence and aggravation of this unfortunate dispute was the result of a major mistake on our part; it led to the focusing of virulent communal feeling against Gandhiji. Whether a different attitude shown by Government at this critical time could have prevented the assassination of Mahatmaji is another imponderable in our history." Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:02, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for emailing me the extract from the Tanwar book. I would like to read the whole chapter at some point but from the part I have seen it is clear that Tanwar regards Nehru's statement to be closer to the truth than the contemporaneous reporting by Pioneer, Tribune etc and concludes that the fast was unconnected to the money transfer. Till date this is the best source for this viewpoint and it can be weighed against other sources that reach a different conclusion when crafting the final language.
 * I don't think the Naik article in the IHC symposia or the Deshmukh statements add anything relevant to the claim about Ganhi's motivation for the fast (I can spell out the reasons if needed; trying to be succinct since the discussion is pretty long already). Is there any other source I should take a look at? Abecedare (talk) 19:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please see Lars Blinkenberg (2022), currently number 9 in Talk:Mahatma_Gandhi.
 * Best, Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  18:04, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * BTW, There are sources, scholarly ones, more reliable than the ones you've produced, which also don't see the payment to Pakistan as a sine qua non of Gandhi's last fast.  I will soon add them, but in their totality they constitute a minority viewpoint.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  18:21, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The 2022 link you are providing is just a reprint of the 1988 publication cited by Abhishek0831996. If you properly checked the source then you would know that the book cited by Abhishek0831996 already includes the quotes, that you are providing, at page 91. This quote only confirms that the fast caused Patel to release the payment but that fast did not concern the payment. This is not supportive of your position. On p.144 (as cited by Abhishek0831996), Lars Blinkenberg has described that Gandhi was not fasting to release payment to Pakistan and that Gandhi denied fast as being against Patel. Capitals00 (talk) 18:37, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Mine is an ebook reprint of the original 1972 edition of Volume 1. The quote I have copied above from that limited-page-view link makes a distinction between what was "official" and what happened behind the scenes. The proper link for it in Abhishek0831996's snippet view link (which is of the 1998 Volume 2) is not the one you have provided, but this.  Best regards,  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  22:44, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have now added the full quote from Blinkenberg's book (see Talk:Mahatma_Gandhi. The quote footnotes Durga Das's 1969 book, India from Curzon to Nehru & Afterwards, London: Collins.  I have also cited that book with a fuller quote, and also DD's introduction to Volume 6 of the Selected Correspondence of Sardar Patel, Ahmedabad: Navajivan.  In each, what was implicit&mdash;what occurred behind the scenes&mdash;is described. Best regards,  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  03:30, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No hurry, Abecedare, but I've added Nisid Hajari's prize-winning Midnight's Furies, which describes a tearful Gandhi applying very direct pressure on Nehru and Patel about Pakistan's 55 crores on the morning of the third day of the fast, Patel responding with bitter words then, but he too shedding tears that afternoon as the rest of the cabinet voted to heed Gandhi's request. In his entreaty to Nehru and Patel that morning, Gandhi had used Mountbatten's words, especially "dishonorable." Mountbatten had described the holding of the cash assets as, "Independent India's first dishonorable act."  Enjoy the weekend.  Best,  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  12:47, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Earlier, on 12 January 1948&mdash;a Monday and Gandhi's day of silence&mdash;after the prayer meeting at which an associate had read out Gandhi's decision to fast, the Mountbattens had visited Gandhi as a gesture of concord and support. Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  12:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note I am still moving the references around to organize them better, so please refer to them by author and title, not "first ---," "second ---," etc.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  21:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have completed my list of sources above. It includes the books of Durga Das, a journalist close to Patel and the editor of his selected correspondence and Pyarelal Nayyar, Gandhi's personal secretary. Nothing had given me a feel for the exceptional times during which Gandhi made his decision to fast than these books, especially Pyarelal's.  I have no doubt now that although the reasons to fast Gandhi had aplenty, both said and unsaid, the withholding of Pakistan's cash assets by the Indian government was what tipped the balance&mdash;of his hesitations&mdash;into action. Best regards,  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  23:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * PS I forgot those who had edited the page, but not the talk page: Apologies,  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  00:40, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I took a whole day to read all of your sources and I still don't see any of them addressing the valid dispute regarding Gandhi having fasted over the payment to Pakistan. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I took a few days off from looking at this page and, coming back, find what seems to be a stalemate between editors who have competing sources. My suggestion of July 26 still seems the best and fairest solution: "The last of these, begun in Delhi on 12 January 1948 when Gandhi was 78, indirectly resulted in the Government of India paying cash assets owed to Pakistan from the former imperial treasury." Followed by a paragraph break in the lead for wall of text.

It seems obvious that Gandhi and his associates, intelligent people, would have known that his fast would likely result in the asset transfer. But his determination to fast to help create some kind of peace in the nations seems his intention, and not the other. He issued seven reasons why he was fasting, and the asset question is not among them if I'm remembering correctly (I haven't memorized his points). Was he surprised when the asset transfer took place? Of course not, he knew human and political nature. But when fasting for specific publicly announced reasons Gandhi was not the politician, he was the nonviolent Mahatma (a title he rejected but knew he was saddled with). This gets too long, will just say that the wording I've suggested was endorsed by one participant in the overall discussion, has not been commented on by any other, and I can only offer it as possibly the fairest resolution to an extremely long and educational discussion. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * .TrangaBellam (talk) 15:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Father of the Nation?
Who exactly has conferred this title to Gandhi? He was too meek a guy to ever deserve a title of such grandiose. Most of the work for India's independence was done by the Germans who severely weakened English power and the British left sensing a repeat of the 1857 rebellion. Meowkiti (talk) 05:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা (talk • contribs)


 * C. R. Attlee, broadcast to the British nation, 30 January 1948: "Everyone will have learnt with profound horror of the brutal murder of Mr. Gandhi, and I know that I am expressing the views of the British people in offering to his fellow countrymen our deep sympathy in the loss of their greatest citizen. Mahatma Gandhi, as he was known in India, was one of the outstanding figures in the world today, but he seemed to belong to a different period of history. Living a life of extreme asceticism, he was revered as a divinely inspired saint by millions of his fellow countrymen. His influence extended beyond the range of his co-religionists and, in a country deeply riven by communal dissension, he had an appeal for all Indians. For a quarter of a century this one man has been the major factor in every consideration of the Indian problem. He had become the expression of the aspirations of the Indian people for independence, but he was not just a nationalist. He represented---it is true---the opposition of the Indian to be ruled by another race, but he also expressed a revulsion of the East against the West. He himself was in revolt against Western materialism and sought a return to a simpler state of society. But his most distinctive doctrine was that of non-violence. He believed in a method of passive resistance to those forces which he considered wrong. He opposed those who sought to achieve their ends by violence and when, as too often happened, his campaigns for Indian freedom resulted in loss of life owing to the undisciplined action of those who professed to follow him, he was deeply grieved. The sincerity and devotion with which he pursued his objectives are beyond all doubt. In the latter months of his life, when communal strife was marring the freedom which India had attained, his threat to fast to the death resulted in the cessation of violence in Bengal, and again recently his fast in Delhi brought about a change in the atmosphere. He had, besides, a hatred of injustice and strove earnestly on behalf of the poor, especially of the depressed classes of India. The hand of a murderer has struck him down and a voice which pleaded for peace and brotherhood has been silenced, but I am certain his spirit will continue to animate his fellow countrymen and will plead for peace and concord."  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  17:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It was Netaji:
 * https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/when-netaji-gave-gandhi-the-title-of-father-of-the-nation-8399485/ Withmoralcare (talk) 09:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Bias
"Immediately upon arriving in South Africa, Gandhi faced discrimination because of his skin colour and heritage, like all people of colour."

I'm not sure how the bolded section adds to the value of the piece. The author's opinion surely should be kept to the author? 24.255.22.250 (talk) 13:55, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ((Comment by user:Iskandar323 now removed)) Explanation by Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  20:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * >>> “????ish racist South Africa”  Really, you can say See You Next Tuesday on Wikipedia unbowdlerized about a regime that was once led by Jan Smuts who had a reasonable relationship with Gandhi and wrote on of the most eloquent messages of condolence at his assassination. Or are we attempting to sound hip as some prima donnas were at FAC until I began to nip the heels of their unreliably sourced edits. Probably better if you take out that allusion to feminine body parts with the meaning of something despicable. It doesn’t help a talk page discussion one whit.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  18:28, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

((Reply by user:Iskandar323 also now removed)) Added by Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  20:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please take out that expression in its entirety. We are not permitted to use expressions of common abuse which may have transferred usage among our circle of friends either on Wikipedia proper or in articles’ talk page discussions. The IP had a point and I’ve removed the words from the MG page, for among other things, the use of that comparison “like all people of color.” implies that Gandhi’s experience of racism in SA was remotely comparable to Black South African’s. I don’t think you understand Iskandar. I haven’t taken any one to ANI in 15 years, maybe more, but if you continue to sound irresponsibly facetious, my next post will be on the user talk pages of some administrators.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  19:15, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm sure you are aware that one is not supposed to edit comments that have been responded to, but if you wish to doctor the above further, you may do so. Or feel free to delete it all if you like, since you are the only respondent. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You can certainly scratch offensive comments. It is not my task. If you don’t do that before you make an edit on any other page or a different edit here I will be posting on the user talk pages of some administrators. Please don’t play slippery in defending offensive language. I have already warned you twice. Final warning: scratch the whole expression out. Again it is not my task. It is yours. Best regards Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  19:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * pinging as well so you’ve seen my comments. Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  19:41, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I have complied and am complying with every one of your requests. I have now deleted the comments. Let me know if that is satisfactory, or if you had something else in mind. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  19:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * General comment: The Smuts-Gandhi Agreement of 1914 is very briefly mentioned on page 301 of the first edition of Gandhi’s ‘’Autobiography’’. The exchange of letters that sealed it is here. By the standards of today it wasn’t much, but it was still something.
 * Among half a dozen original editions of newspapers dated 31 January 1948 that were gifted to me is one from the Times of India. The front page has a blurb from Smuts: "“Prince Among Men”: Gen. Smut’s Tribute. Cape Town, January 30: When he received news of the death of Mahatma Gandhi, Field Marshal Smuts, the South African Premier, said, “I have heard of the assassination of Gandhi with the deepest grief, which I’m sure will be shared all over the world. Gandhi was one of the great men of our time and my acquaintance with him for a period of more than 30 years has only deepened my high respect for him, however much we differed in our views and methods. A prince among men has passed away and we grieve with India in her irreparable loss. (Reuter.)" The quote used to be in the article until last month when some editors removed it.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  20:51, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2023
add Mahatma Gandhi's native name in Gujarati to the page: "મહાત્મા ગાંધી" Wikibaric (talk) 18:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, can't add in the lead or infobox per WP:NOINDICSCRIPT policy. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:23, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

My edits
Here, I tried to describe that Khilafat movement gradually ended after non-cooperation movement was over in 1922. Caliphate removal happened 2 years later. Congress still retained some Muslim support because Mukhtar Ahmed Ansari, Maulana Azad, Hakim Ajmal Khan and others continued to remain Congress members.

Here I tried to improve chronology. Gandhi's comments on Sitaramayya's defeat came before Bose resigned from Congress. Editorkamran (talk) 11:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2023
"Please add Gandhi's alternative name 'Bapu' in brackets in the title of the article" 2A02:C7C:5ABD:5600:3548:D2F7:4288:44C0 (talk) 11:23, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template.  —  Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  11:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Gandhi's dark side
I feel that Gandhi's racist and sexist views aren't represented enough. 97.120.9.89 (talk) 23:22, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * So find relevant WP:Reliable sources that discuss them, and add proportionate, cited text based on them to the article. Be sure that you are not interpreting the routine societal attitudes of his historical milieu in the anachronistic light of modern attitudes in yours, which would be valueless. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 14:31, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2023
I think Practices and beliefs of Mahatma Gandhi could be added to the "See also" section of the page. It'd make the page easier to find. HypnoticOcelot (talk) 23:52, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ❌ Already linked as main article in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Principles,_practices,_and_beliefs Leoneix (talk) 07:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

People did not riot in Jallianwala Bagh
This is included in the article:

16:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC)16:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC) ...Communities across India announced plans to gather in greater numbers to protest. Government warned him to not enter Delhi. Gandhi defied the order. On 9 April, Gandhi was arrested.

People rioted. On 13 April 1919, people including women with children gathered in an Amritsar park, and British Indian Army officer Reginald Dyer surrounded them and ordered troops under his command to fire on them. The resulting Jallianwala Bagh massacre (or Amritsar massacre) of hundreds of Sikh and Hindu civilians enraged the subcontinent, but was supported by some Britons and parts of the British media as a necessary response. Gandhi in Ahmedabad, on the day after the massacre in Amritsar, did not criticise the British and instead criticised his fellow countrymen for not exclusively using 'love' to deal with the 'hate' of the British government. Gandhi demanded that the Indian people stop all violence, stop all property destruction, and went on fast-to-death to pressure Indians to stop their rioting... 16:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Spasht (talk) 16:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion, the beginning of the second paragraph implies that people rioted at Jallianwala Bagh, especially when complemented by Gandhi's response towards the end of the second paragraph, which criticizes people for supposedly using violence. However, people had gathered at Jallianwala Bagh to peacefully assemble for a celebration in defiance of an order by Dyer that demanded people stay inside lest they be shot by British soldiers. I mean, this is a peaceful defiance. Even when the many thousands of people had gathered in spite of Dyer's orders, they remained peaceful, and then the British troops surrounded and massacred the crowd at his orders regardless.

What exactly was Gandhi criticising here? Just a nagging thought. Spasht (talk) 16:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed the people rioted part. The rest ... you're welcome to edit (with reliable sources). --RegentsPark (comment) 20:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2023
Request to add to Scholarly Articles section: Gandhi, Schiller and King: The Power of Truth-Force and Sublime Compassion https://schillerinstitut.dk/si/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Gandhi-Schiller-King-english.pdf Mich.ras (talk) 10:30, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
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Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2024
V. Mishra&#39;IND (talk) 14:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC) Mahatma Gandhi is not father of nation, Mahatma Gandhi Was Never Declared ‘Father Of Nation. The home ministry says Article 18 (1) of the Constitution does not permit any titles except education and military ones.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2024 (UTC)