Talk:Main Page/Archive 146

Today's featured article (October 16) update
Where did the discussion just vanish to?

There will always be the 'occasional article' which causes 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' on the grounds that it will upset the hypersensitive offspring of Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells and/or workplace/library 'inappropriate viewing filters' (which can be somewhat idiosyncratic). There are also a number of articles which are 'for various reasons' kept off the front page, however good they are as articles.

Collectively these will include certain topics mainly in a few categories (including, but not limited to adult, war, and medical). Unless there is fork of WP which leads on such topics, there is a case for providing a 'summary that is unlikely to cause offence' (leaving the terms that cause comment on the actual article) - equivalent to the links on April Fools day articles. Jackiespeel (talk) 13:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Reinstated. Sorry.  GARDEN 14:24, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Carrying on from the fact/fiction WP suggestion above - 'unsigned in' have a fairly vanilla FA and selection of entries in DYN and On This Day: but on signing in can have the WP equivalent of computer wallpaper - sports, games, history, technology... according to selection.

As far as I can see in 'any given 4-6 months' there will be at least one in each of the categories (a) 'Not being suitable for DoTW's children/workplace computers', (b) 'Why are we having a run of (insert theme here) articles' and (c) 'This is too trivial a subject to appear on the MP/be submitted for FA status.' (Any further suggestions?) Jackiespeel (talk) 15:03, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Every 4-6 months? This tripe is more frequent than that. J Milburn (talk) 15:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You forgot my personal favorite, "how much did CompanyName, Inc. pay for this ad spot, anyway?" Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 15:33, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 8,000,000 wikibucks, which totally exist. Bob Amnertiopsis ∴ChatMe! 16:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Collaborative currency... there's an idea. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 19:06, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That was tried once (WikiMoney)... - Dumelow (talk) 19:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * My favorites are the ones that complain about completely innocent but naughty-looking things. Like the word "titular". APL (talk) 20:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * niggardly is a perennial favourite in that category. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 22:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Phagocyte is my favourite. It was to do with it's pronounciation :) Yowuza  yadderhouse |meh 13:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC)That sort of complaint works best when directed at an Rwandan fair trade coffee run by people who've likely mostly never used the internet never heard of wikipedia and don't have any advertising budget to speak of, making only US$35k profit in 2003. Sadly that sort of stuff doesn't come up much Nil Einne (talk) 20:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I meant 'during every period of 4-6 months' there will be a certain number of FA articles etc which cause discussion on their appropriateness - and I know creating the non-vanilla versions would involve much work.

What would the the WP version of 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' be? (The equivalent of the woman who told Samuel Johnson that she was pleased there were no 'rude words' in his dictionary to which he made a acerbic remark about her having been looking for them.) Jackiespeel (talk) 15:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * What is truly enlightening about the response is that the article itself explains that such swimming scenes were accepted as normal in the Victorian era - not just butts, but the whole live human (and the professor with his undergraduates yet!). And of course the painting itself was accepted as fine art.  Who would have thought that people today would be so much more prudish than during Victorian times...? Wnt (talk) 19:42, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * SIGH. It happened again. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 14:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Jenson Button: a suicide bomber from the Marshall Islands?
We really need to stop putting photos next to irrelevant captions.... How many times has this come up now? --MZMcBride (talk) 09:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually he is presidnet of the Marshall Islands. Either way I'm sure the picture was up before the caption, and I really don't understand why people can't read a few lines down to find out who the picture is of. Dark verdant (talk) 09:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why should they be expected to? Is it unreasonable to suppose the picture is of the person mentioned nearest it when no obvious indication is given to the contrary? Peter jackson (talk) 10:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a bit of a compromise between not having a picture (because some article don't have a suitable one) or moving old news to the top to be adjacent to the relevant image. Either way is not ideal.  However OTD does the same (eg. this is clearly not Ferdinand I of Portugal) for what I suspect are the same reasons and there does not seem to be the same confusion - Dumelow (talk) 11:32, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

''We really need to stop putting photos next to irrelevant captions.... How many times has this come up now? '' Oh, I would say this issue has come up occasionally for the past four or five years. There is even a whole section of FAQ/Main Page devoted to it here. Again, its a combination of two issues: first, not always having a suitable picture for the top event. And second, because the Main Page templates are also transcluded on other pages, many people do not want to lower the image closer to relevant event (like on the French Wikipedia) since it may interfere with the formatting on those other pages. Of course, there have been proposals to bold "(pictured)", highlight the relevant event, and others, but so far there has been no consensus for an alternative. Cheers. Zzyzx11 (talk) 15:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Just thought of something - would it be possible to make two templates (or one template with an auto-magical "alignment=on/off" parameter) so that we can have the layout "everyone seems to expect" on the main page, but also allow the other users to have the alignment off in the transcluded contexts? -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 18:11, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The French wikipedia situation is somewhat unclear to me. They were aligning pictures for a while. Then they seemed to stop, see Wikipedia talk:FAQ/Main Page. However from the current page Fr:Accueil (permanent link to template) and other examples  it appears to me they are again albeit not perfectly Nil Einne (talk) 19:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There was a brief period (as little as a couple of days?) where the word "Pictured" was bold. I liked that. I may have been the only one. APL (talk) 19:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Spelling error
Please change "batttery" to "battery." Featured Article as it appears on the Main Page. --136.183.240.185 (talk) 00:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Fixed, thank you. In the future, please report main page errors at Main Page/Errors.  —David Levy 00:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The recent bombings in Iraq.
Why isn’t it in the news? Sorry if I’m asking a redundant question. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 22:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's currently under consideration at WP:ITN/C where it has gained sufficient support to go up. It is just being held back until the article is improved a little - Dumelow (talk) 22:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK
It's heartwarming to see Norway back in the DYK column — especially now in the afterglow of that country's No. 1 ranking in the United Nations Development Program's index of desirable countries in which to live (Oct. 4).

Sca (talk) 17:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wasn't there like a whole discussion about the prevalence of Norway-related articles in the DYK section a while back? I mean, of course they're secretly in control of the world and have been since the Viking Era, but that just isn't subtle. --Kaizer13 (talk) 04:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed there was such a discussion — was it last spring? What started out as a critique of the over-abundance of Norway-related articles turned into a whimsical defense of same.


 * Of course, it's all a conspiracy for Norway to finalize world domination.


 * Sca (talk) 17:27, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Idea for the main Page!
At the top of the main page, there should be a content box saying "Create New Page". That would be really convenient and helpful, to me anyway. Talk to me here, Qwertyfish11 (talk) 14:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably not a good idea; see WP:IINFO and WP:NOTABILITY for some reasons why. 79.71.70.17 (talk) 16:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, probably not. Another idea is to feature a template of the day, like the cookie templete or the trout. It would be a good way to showcase some of the cool templates people have made, and it would be helpful ones, like a userbox, or a box issuing a citation, etc. Qwertyfish11 (talk) 16:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Are there even enough templates for that? -- Yowuza  yadderhouse |meh 16:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Given that most people visiting the main page don't have an account that's at least 4 days old and therefore can't create a new page definitely not a good idea. Note that we do link to Your first article, which is surely a better place for people who likely don't have an account and are unlikely to have much knowledge of wikipedia editing policy, under WP:DYK (as you would expect) Nil Einne (talk) 20:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * NOOOOOooooooOOOOoOOoooOO! Spam. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 22:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You can create articles as soon as you create an account, you just can't upload images or edit semi-protected pages. J Milburn (talk) 19:49, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Scientology Fraud?
I noticed that the news section listed that the Church of Scientology was convicted of fraud. Now the headline is gone. What happened? Conspiracy? 161.221.87.4 (talk) 23:45, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

No mysterious conspiracy at all; it was added without the usual discussion, and it's the sort of thing that shouldn't be added without the usual discussion, so it's been removed (see here). It looks like it has already been proposed to add it again, though, so it might reappear. — Gavia immer (talk) 00:01, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Windows 7 in the News?
What on earth is the release of Windows 7 doing on the front In the News? Since when was the release of commercial products placed In the News? I didn't see OS X Snow Leopard there when that was released, nor when Cola Lime was released. 92.8.141.202 (talk) 12:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you feel that the release of Windows 7 is not major news? We have a heavily updated article, and this is going to be of interest to a large number of people in a wide variety of different countries. It seems like a great candidate for ITN- if other major releases were not featured in ITN, then perhaps they should have been. J Milburn (talk) 13:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I feel it can only be quantified as major news if in context we report other major product launches ITN; this seems too much like singling out a single product for no good reason. But in honesty I don't see a good reason why any product release should be on ITN. 92.8.141.202 (talk) 19:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I also think it's a little ridiculous. An OS upgrade is not news. 66.207.206.210 (talk) 14:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Many grouchy Vista users might disagree. Anyway, wasn't the announcement of Chrome OS featured ITN? Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 15:18, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No it was not. And I'm sure more people drank Pepsi Crystal when it was released than people that used Windows 7, but it wasn't featured ITN. --190.247.131.132 (talk) 15:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected about Chrome OS. However, the statement about Crystal Pepsi is a non sequitur, since thousands of drinkers of earlier Pepsi products hadn't been clamoring for an upgrade while bemoaning their previous inability to drink anything except allegedly inferior and unpalatable Pepsi Free. There's also the rather embarrassing point that Crystal Pepsi's launch predated Wikipedia by about a decade. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 16:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm waiting for the U.S. bias argument on this one. – Howard  the   Duck  17:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And omigod, Microsoft are a US based company!?!!111oneone.  GARDEN 19:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And according to Orly Taitz, so intricately entwined with support of Barack Obama that the judge in her Georgia case must recuse himself because he owns stock in Microsoft. I call political bias.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:22, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you should have contributed to WP:ITN/C where it was discussed and consensus was broadly for it being posted? I'm fairly indifferent about it, myself, because the reaction has much more subdued than I remember the release of Windows '95 being. On the other hand, it's much more notable than other OSes, whether Snow Leopard, Ubuntu, Haiku, or MorphOS, simply due to its marketshare, so I find the "equal treatment" argument rather fallacious. -93.97.122.93 (talk) 19:40, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I should have, and would have had I realised it was there before the vote closed. But as it's no longer open, I feel it's better to voice my concern and (Hopefully) change the outcome, than to otherwise remain silent. It's not simply a matter of "equal treatment" with other operating systems, but other products, full stop. For example, I didn't see a news report when Intel launched the Allendale, although that was just as important and wide-spread a commercial release, if not more so. This seems somewhat like an unwarranted exception to the unspoken rule. 92.8.141.202 (talk) 20:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "Perhaps you should have contributed to the discussion on this issue, which as always was held within a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard' (shortcut: WP:LFC/DLW-SOTDS'BOTL'). If you inexplicably chose not to take part in this discussion, that's your problem." --86.170.64.57 (talk) 23:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh my, LOL --BorgQueen (talk) 23:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

If we don't include major deaths because someone was old and likely to die soon anyway, why would we include the release of a major consumer product that most everyone knew was coming anyway? IIIVIX ( Talk ) 21:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, we do feature deaths on ITN even if they were old and expected to die, as long as they meet our criteria. For example, Corazon Aquino, who died after one-year battle with cancer at the age of 76, was featured. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The release of Windows 7 is big news because it is a lot better than Vista, and includes bug fixes. December21st2012Freak chat 00:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

We seem to be losing sight of the fact. So far as I'm aware, and please correct me if I'm wrong, no other commercial release of a product has ever been displayed on the front ITN, including the Vista release; why is this a valid exception? 92.11.57.193 (talk) 11:01, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I searched briefly for a few notable international releases I could think of and quickly found Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows here. A new Windows release is given attention in a huge number of news media around the world, probably more than any other software release. I don't see a problem in bringing it to ITN without bringing other less notable releases. There must be lots of ITN items which have been unique for their type, with the number depending on how narrowly the type is defined. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Please vote to keep or remove Windows 7 from ITN here --FixmanPraise me 15:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The "vote" is at WP:ITN/C now. Having read this: "For some reason, many people confuse the whole world with the United States and Western Europe." So, does that... count? – Howard  the   Duck  16:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Amazon order record broken. It broke the amazon's record of order for any product ! -- '''yousaf465'   05:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The other product that got in was the last Harry Potter book, and that was the previous Amazon.com holder. Now if the next Twilight book breaks Windows 7's record, it'll be interesting to watch the discussion unfold at WP:ITN/C. – Howard  the   Duck  09:24, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Holy crap! Anything but the shiny sparkling vampires! Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 16:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, we did have to endure on wizard bias, so we can stand vampires and werewolves... only that they're American. At least Robert Pattinson is British, so that may fly on the people at WP:ITN. – Howard  the   Duck  18:22, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Except the final Twilight book came out in 2008, and the series hasn't had the financial success nor cultural impact of Harry Potter, but that's beside the point. Anakinjmt (talk) 19:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we can always ignore those Edward <3 Bella fangirls lurking all over the place. Plus, the movie was the highest grossing movie directed by a women since Edward Cullen knows when. (and that could fly with the people at WP:ITN considering they're into records... nah, no way, this is an American film.) – Howard  the   Duck  06:10, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it hadn't had financial success nor cultural impact, just not on the same level as HP (although you'd think it'd have more impact considering EW.com has an entire Twilight section but not a HP section). Anakinjmt (talk) 17:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Ohi Day
O HAI! IZ IN UR WIKIPEDIAS.  howcheng  {chat} 05:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * :D Can I has Ohi Day cake?JanderVK (talk) 09:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, there is no such thing. If you are looking for something traditional, that's for pupils to cram into a fast food restaurant after the parade, as far as I know. Waltham, The Duke of 10:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Los Maniceros footballer kidnapping in Venezuela
The news item says they were kidnapped in Colombia; but they were from Colombia. They were actually kidnapped just across the border in Venezuela. Elphion (talk) 06:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Re Gaidamak
You cannot "participate in a scandal." You can be involved in a scandal or participate in a crime. Please correct. Haiduc (talk) 19:07, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. How does that look? Master of Puppets  19:59, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

On this Day
Today's Tsar bomba entry says, "With a yield of around 50 megatons, it was the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated to date." I believe it remains the largest ever detonated, so the text should say is, and to date is redundant. Also, can't we just call it a bomb? This is English Wikipedia. Sca (talk) 14:15, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You're looking for the On This Day section. Anyway, I don't tend to deal with OTD, but hooks are phrased in past-tense, if I'm correct (hence, leaving out "to date" could imply that there have been bigger bombs). Also, Tsar Bomba is the nickname, according to the article. No reason to translate it. Master of Puppets  15:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Bomba (бомба, or Бомба capitalized) is the generic Russian word for bomb. Tsar (Царь) more commonly written Czar in English, is of course the Russian version of Ceasar, meaning emperor. If we are writing for English speakers, shouldn't we call it the Czar Bomb or Emperor Bomb? Anyway, it is the largest nuclear device ever detonated — unless they're not telling us.


 * Sca (talk) 15:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Tsar is very common in English (and the romanisation Czar looks very outdated to me- I've always seen is as Tsar) but I agree in principle with translating Bomba. J Milburn (talk) 16:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC


 * Tsar Bomba is the nickname, according to the article. As in, that's the Anglicized version. And I was saying that removing "to date" and saying it was the largest bomb ever detonated implies that there have been bigger. Master of Puppets  16:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Besides eg many newspapers are referred to by their foreign language names - Der Speigel and Pravda to give two examples - rather than the translation. Jackiespeel (talk) 17:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Newspaper names, like names of people, are a different matter. Of course we wouldn't translate Ivan Ivanovich as John Johnson — he's still Ivan no matter the circumstances. Same with names of publications. Pravda is still Pravda, not Truth.


 * The difference here is that while "Tsar" no doubt is the bomb's nickname, just as "Little Boy" and "Fatman" were nicknames of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, бомба is a generic noun. But I seem to be fighting a losing battle. Sca (talk) 19:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Possibly if the Tsar Bomba were more widely known in English speaking areas it would be naturalised - like Titulus Regius. 22:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Main page Article Editing - reboot
Hi, would someone familiar with the effects of having Featured Articles on the Main Page be able to comment here: WP:VPR? Thanks. Rd232 talk 21:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

POTD
Ho hum. We just had a featured picture of flies fucking on the front page a little over two weeks ago (here). How about a little variety? Maybe a cricket getting a handjob or something? 71.162.30.47 (talk) 01:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, we just give the public what they want. Take your dirty crickets elsewhere. Nufy8 (talk) 01:32, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Quiet. Be careful, you.  Act up, and they'll put something nasty on your talk page.  Then you'll be marked.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.118.208.164 (talk) 04:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, there's a whole category for fly sex! Amazing! — RockMFR 01:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC) ps:inteligenza m inteligenza —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.6.74.180 (talk) 01:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I for one, cannot believe that we are exposing children to such vulgar things, not once, but on a regular basis! Think of how we will warp the minds of those little children here for a school report, only to lead them down the dark path of internet fly porn! Think of the children! Cheers! Scapler (talk) 04:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, now Wikipedia can also claim to be the Internet's biggest source of insect pornography! Put that in your resymé and smoke it! --Kaizer13 (talk) 04:40, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Forget the children. Think of the maggots! APL (talk) 05:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Boo. No duck sex. – Howard  the   Duck  10:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe User:Howcheng who schedules WP:TFP does so largely in order of promotion. SOme images are delayed or put ahead when there's a relevant date and if two flies came up in a row, Howcheng would probably delay one for balance but may not consider so far ahead. Nil Einne (talk) 13:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I try to balance out the submissions so that there's not a whole lot of repetition, but we're in the middle of a large run of insect photos (and insect sex ("insext"?) photos, and Australia and flowers and there's a huge group of bird photos coming too) so I usually put a minimum of at least week between the same themes (notice -- only three insect photos all month!). I suppose I could have waited a little longer on the bug pr0n, but the photographer in question was kind of wondering why this one was taking so long.  howcheng  {chat} 16:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

When is the 'non-work/library etc safe' alternative front page/linkages fork being set up (whether or not concentrating on such things - to include political non-mainstream, medical, military, 'yuck-factor' non-pc and similar items)? 15:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly, thank you. This is something that we've needed for a long time.  We need to avoid religion so as not to upset the atheists; politics, which might offend right-wing, left-wing, undecided, and I'm-going-to-tear-down-both-wings radical voters; anything American so that the British don't get offended; anything British so that the Americans don't complain about funny spelling and grammar; anything from other parts of the world so that no one asks what relevance this has to the English Wikipedia; science so as not to upset the godfearing; violence, sex, profanity, and any music less than 60 years old to protect the minds of children; video games, movies, television, art, and software so that we won't be a big ad site; blurbs with images so that we don't have alignment issues and blurbs without images so that we won't have a boring, naked Main Page; anything technical because jargon is confusing to the layman and anything nontechnical because it is therefore probably unencyclopedic; and anything by only one creator because they'll want to take all the credit as well as any collaborative work because we don't have space to list so many credits.  Then we'll truly be a "free encyclopedia." Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 17:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. I'm sorry for using the word "naked." I hope kids don't see this. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 17:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Congrats, you just made Mountain Dew come out of my nose :) 72.65.195.10 (talk) 17:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * How can we be sure that's Mountain Dew? Anyway, this discussion has gotten off track. Back to the fly pic. I, for one, would like to see a photo of Norwegians in a comparable pose.


 * [[Image:Flag of Norway.svg|Norway|45px]] Sca (talk) 19:04, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I can never tell if people are joking, but let's all remember that there is a "Safe" homepage. It's right here : http://www.wikipedia.org APL (talk) 19:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I apologize. I meant to say I'd like to see Norwegian insects in a similar pose. How about the Norges gresshopper, for example? Sca (talk) 14:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the division I was making is fairly clear - work/library/similar safe and 'things which are likely to annoy Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells and sprogs thereof/the more generally annoying corners of the political spectrum, some war-related, medical/veterinary topics which are incompatible with biscuit crumbs and drinks of choice...' (Some blocking set ups can be idiosycratic - ecclesiastical history blocked as occult (Richard Dawkins not involved) and the 1851 census blocked as matchmaking (presumable aimed at the zombie/vampire market). And consider the triffid/Ent-centri wiki(s) discussions on main page images of flowers. My comment is a semi-humorous suggestion of how to resolve the matter. (And, as I have previously suggested a 'Random Article with an improvement tag attached' link, for this fork there could be a 'random non-work/library/etc safe page' link - adult, exotic medical, exotic insect... etc etc.) Jackiespeel (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Jackiespeel (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

There is also the Product Placement Wiki front page fork.

How could WP be turned into a computer game? (Gain points by improving articles! Have a High Noon encounter with a WPVandal!...) Jackiespeel (talk) 18:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There are already competitions like that. J Milburn (talk) 19:47, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's more of a competition than a video game. Just saying. Anakinjmt (talk) 19:58, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah, but we're a video game anyway, everyone knows that. J Milburn (talk) 20:03, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean I can actually play an MMO on this computer? FANFREAKINTASTIC! Though I'd still rather play the Old Republic. Anakinjmt (talk) 20:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

How should text be turned into images (apart from using some of the fancy effects in Word - ants, flashing lights etc) - or are we going retro to early text-based games? Jackiespeel (talk) 16:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.  howcheng  {chat} 17:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Before this topic and its diversions disappear off the event horizon of interest - for starters a Wikipedia version of Mornington Crescent (game).

The triffid/Ent wikis are at present hypothetical. Jackiespeel (talk) 19:07, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * shriek* And today the POTD is showcasing the "swimsuit areas" of a plant! Will the indecency never cease?! Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 12:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Nowt to do with me (g). What next - mushrooms, fish, peacock in full display.... Jackiespeel (talk) 15:43, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Pea-what?! You... vulgar!  Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 17:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Stopcock, cockpit, and to go with the WP Mornington Crescent game suggestion above, Cockfosters tube Station. Jackiespeel (talk) 15:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

And, for the game, points are gained for resolving 'Wikiwhacks' (orphaned articles), with a multiplier for a Wikipeida six degrees of separation linkage for 'entries not being part of a group.'

Anyone wishing to develop this game further 'in a suitable place' can (g). Jackiespeel (talk) 23:13, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Ubuntu 9.10?
Since Windows 7 was able to make an ITN insertion, couldn't Ubuntu do the same as it's not a commercial product and has a rapidly increasing market share? (forgive my newbiness in not knowing how to sign my name to edits. I'm user Malignus)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malignus (talk • contribs) 14:43, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If Ubuntu approached Harry Potter 7 proportions I don't see why not... – Howard  the   Duck  14:49, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * To sign your username and the date, just put four tildes  after your comment.  J.delanoy gabs adds  15:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Although I personally am excited by the Ubuntu release, you're comparing apples and oranges. The Ubuntu release is a regularly-scheduled upgrade to the operating system; its approximate release date could have been predicted a few years (and several versions) ago.  The Windows 7 release, on the other hand, appears to have been a hastily- (but, we hope, carefully-) assembled replacement for the much-maligned Vista.  If Ubuntu releases its next version several months ahead of schedule because of the miserable failure of 9.10, that might be a good candidate for ITN.  Otherwise, it's just business as usual and therefore not newsworthy. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 17:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely our subjective reasoning as to whether the release would be newsworthy is irrelevant? To be featured in ITN, an article needs to be in the news (among other things). Stanstaple (talk) 20:13, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but we can't just include anything in the news. I don't participate in discussions on what should be selected for ITN, but I don't think that Miley Cyrus announcing she was closing her Twitter account should have been ITN (though you would think it should be, given the amount of press in the entertainment circuit it got). ITN only has a limited amount of news that can be posted on any given day. Major events should be posted, and that's it. Release of Deathly Hallows, Michael Jackson's death, winner of the World Series, Obama's election to President, and huge natural disasters are excellent examples of what would be appropriate of ITN (and in fact, all were, or in the case of the World Series, will be). ITN shouldn't be afraid to list things from politics, sports, or entertainment, provided the story is big enough. That said, I will say that Windows 7 to me is a little iffy, and I would be curious to see the discussion on putting that ITN, but I didn't participate so I can't really given an opinion on its worthiness to be featured ITN. Anakinjmt (talk) 21:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * BTW, I'm sure that Miley Cyrus making that announcement was not featured in ITN. I simply used that as an example of something that would be ridiculous to put in ITN and if it HAD I would have raised serious questions. Anakinjmt (talk) 21:06, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't even know who Miley Cyrus is ! Well, for Ubuntu I could have love to see it on ITN but it doesn't fit under the ITN criteria. -- '''yousaf465'  02:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't know who she is? That's really surprising. I'm curious how you pulled that off. Anakinjmt (talk) 03:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not that surprising since User:Yousaf465 is from Pakistan, according to his userpage. I don't think Miley Cyrus is that well-known in non-English speaking countries. --BorgQueen (talk) 03:56, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that is true. -- '''yousaf465'  04:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and Karmic isn't in any mainstream news, so it has no chance of going up. I mean, I'm using it right now (if you're reading this and you're using Windows, what are you waiting for), but it's not that important.
 * I certainly hope that Miley Cyrus isn't famous across the sea. Same goes for the Jonas Brothers. Actually, right now, I can tell you all that I will IAR and block everything if anyone so much as suggests that Miley Cyrus is good. Master of Puppets  04:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * According to In the news/Hypothetical nominations (has been removed), if Miley died she won't be "featured" on ITN. – Howard  the   Duck  07:11, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, hey, I actually LIKE Miley's music. Party in the USA is a good song. But, then again, I'm also a Power Rangers fan, so clearly I must be mental (to borrow the British term). Anakinjmt (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a native English speaker and I've never heard of Miley Cyrus. To quote Ben Kenobi, "Should I have?"--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not a native English speaker and I've heard of Miley before I realized that his father was Billy Ray. – Howard  the   Duck  18:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Halloween
I get the theme today. Very well done. Except that while the FA is Halloween-themed, and the FP is Halloween-themed, and the DYK is Halloween-themed, On This Day has three light-hearted Halloween-themed entries surrounded by Martin Luther and a tragedy involving the deaths of over two hundred people. Not to mention that one of those light-hearted entries is about the "vanishing into the sky" of some convicted terrorists. It sticks out a bit. --86.170.64.57 (talk) 01:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it's a bit "horses for courses" when it comes to notable historical events. Slightly above the article you mention, there is also one about legalising prostitution and gambling in Nevada, and some might take issue with reporting that as an anniversary. The issue is also choosing different events to highlight across different years, and that depends on what is available. Meanwhile, the main topic of the page may well be Halloween, but that does not limit us reporting more serious matters in sidebars.  Rodhull  andemu  01:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I do like the Halloween theme, and take no issue with most of the entries. However, in what is generally a light-hearted and amusing main page, the entry about the deaths of 217 people does to me seem a bit distasteful.  I'm not trying to be Mr Killjoy, and heaven knows I got annoyed when people complained about the April Fools theme this year, so I would not raise this if I didn't feel there is an issue. HonouraryMix (talk) 01:34, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The mention of pumpkin sauce in DYK even got to me, suggestible halloweener that I am. Yuk. Good job with the theme. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 01:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Considering the style of On This Day has changed since I first wrote, I feel my point is now redundant. HonouraryMix (talk) 01:52, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * [edit conflict]
 * I agree with this complaint, and I reverted the section to the conventional format.
 * It appears that there was no discussion other than this (in which the only response was negative).
 * In addition to the above criticisms, the tone didn't even evoke the spirit of Halloween (in my opinion); it reminded me of April Fools' Day. —David Levy 01:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. As I suggested, I didn't want to make a big deal, but if there was no consensus to adopt the noted style in the first place, it does seem wise to change it in view of the fact that I, and the IP address, would probably not have been the only ones to take issue. HonouraryMix (talk) 01:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You are killy joy crybaby's. We'll never ever have themes because there will always be someting negative in the news. Get over it.JanderVK (talk) 03:47, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Please refrain from engaging in personal attacks and equally offensive grammar. —David Levy 03:51, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * How many countries even celebrate Halloween in this "OooOOoOOooo spooky ghosts and witches"-spirit? Putting an Anglo style Halloween theme over half the front page isn't very international. Are we going to get a Soviet Union -era May Day parade theme next May Day? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.17.50 (talk) 09:51, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Putting an Anglo style Halloween theme over half the front page isn't very international. Well? This is the English language Wikipedia, so what do you expect? -- Yowuza yadderhouse |meh 11:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a valid criticism. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia written in English, not an encyclopedia catering to English-speaking cultures.  Systemic bias is unavoidable, but systematic bias is not.  —David Levy 12:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I fully agree with the complaints. Worst of all is the "Did you know?" entry: ... that the painted suillus (pictured) is not, in fact, the feeding appendages of an underground monster that wants to eat your face? This is pure nonsense, has nothing to do with the article in question and is not even very funny. It's a shame that this made it on the front page. -- JovanCormac (talk) 11:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's very funny, witty, and fitting the theme and just came here to say so. -- megA (talk) 12:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that it goes too far.
 * Timing something along the lines of the "Big Max" item ("Did you know that Big Max pumpkins are not really pumpkins?") for Halloween is harmless. Stating folklore as fact ("Did you know that the demon Maha Sohona, whose head has been replaced with that of a bear, haunts graveyards and feasts on human flesh?") is borderline at best.  The "painted suillus" item is simply over the top, as it's based on a contrivance with absolutely no connection to any information contained within the article.  Frankly, I saw milder jokes rejected for inclusion on our April Fools' Day main page.
 * In keeping with the spooky theme, we might as well link to a notable person's article with the blurb "Did you know that [person's name] (pictured) is not, in fact, a serial killer who stores human flesh in his freezer and dispenses it to trick-or-treating children on Halloween?". —David Levy 12:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I must say that I'm not fond of this angle (and regret overlooking the discussion that led to its creation). I hope that this concept is toned down for next year.  —David Levy 12:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with David. The first thing I did when I read the tagline for the fungus was to head to the article to see which folklore once considered it to be a monster.  I was thoroughly confused when there was no mention of it at all.  Even April Fools Day and Halloween themed items should be grounded in facts contained within the article, otherwise we could just invent thousands of wordings for what things "are not" - Dumelow (talk) 12:43, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Image
Where has the image for TFA gone?  Majorly  talk  16:16, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It was deleted for copyvio on Commons. Could someone remove it from the TFA? — MC10 ( T • C • GB •[ L ]• EM )  16:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * How bizarre. The vague deletion summary says "copyright violation, see Commons:Licensing", yet the image was appropriately licensed as far as I could see...  Majorly  talk  16:22, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed that another image of this particular person is currently tagged for removal because "The image is not public domain in its source country (Canada), and the Library & Archives Canada license (quoted on the image description page) does not permit derivative work.". Perhaps this was the same reason for the removed image? Also, seeing the current image is licensed under the same pretense, i wonder if this one is illegal as well. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 16:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No, the now used image File:Jacques plante.jpg is ok, copyright expired, see Commons:Licensing. ;) --Martin H. (talk) 18:51, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the current image until the situation gets sorted out. — RockMFR 18:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Guru Nanak Jayanti: 2 Nov : On this day...
Today is Guru Nanak Jayanti in the Sikhism (one of the biggest Sikh festivals), Shouldn't it be included in On this day...- ReferenceReference-- Redtigerxyz Talk 06:52, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful if this was mentioned in the article rather then requiring external references so readers aren't left surprised Nil Einne (talk) 09:38, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In addition, the article has been tagged as requiring clean-up and possibly containing original research since April 2008, and the general rule is not to link to such articles from main-page sections such as On This Day. BencherliteTalk 09:41, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It really is quite shocking we're not including this. J Milburn (talk) 11:19, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * WTF! Guru Nanank Jayanti is the "one of most important" festival for Sikhs. Shocking! Put it up now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.182.10.117 (talk) 17:28, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Clean up the article first and then we'll talk.  howcheng  {chat} 18:04, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that a prerequisite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.182.121.80 (talk) 17:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

204.113.71.2 (talk) 21:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I'd say the article is fine. No FA, granted, but certainly sufficient for an observance in OTD. We've got about every holiday under the sun on the thing, not including this one seems more like an oversight than an intentional move based on article quality.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 23:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? It does not contain a single inline citation, which is a huge problem. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 05:03, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Articles featured on the Main Page (i.e., in boldface) in "In the News", "On This Day" or "Did You Know" must be free of any maintenance tags. POTD is the exception to the rule because the featured item is the image, not the associated article.  howcheng  {chat} 17:28, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

As it may not be practical to have a 'flag this page for polishing and development so it can appear in DYK/OTD a fortnight hence' tag, perhaps a mention on this talk page/a list off the community portal page might be suitable (with a time-limited appearance - if not dealt with in a week, then the article gets moved to the appropriate open task group). Jackiespeel (talk) 14:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Logo
Why does the Wikipedia logo have a ' on the left hand side of the omega sign? This is not in accordance with Wikipedia logos. 128.232.247.48 (talk) 10:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, that article shows the ball both with and without that mark by the omega. It also mentions "capital omega with tonos", and tonos is explained here. Art LaPella (talk) 15:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Orlando office shooting
The situation currently unfolding in Orlando should be added to the ITN section 69.41.192.218 (talk) 18:15, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please propose such additions at WP:ITN/C (where this item is, in fact, already under consideration). Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 18:51, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

London Gazette
The article London Gazette says that it claims to be the oldest surviving English-language newspaper, whereas the Main Page synopsis (under "On this day...") says that it is the oldest surviving English-language newspaper. -- Wavelength (talk) 02:56, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ivars_Godmanis_on_left.JPG
Please transfer this file on commons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ivars_Godmanis_on_left.JPG --77.48.153.172 (talk) 09:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done, although the place to bring this up would probably have been the Village Pump. Bob Amnertiopsis ∴ChatMe! 15:01, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Pictures of criminals need not be displayed.
You play right into the hands of the criminals, who may be pathologically focused on garnering publicity at any cost. Very poor editorial policy on your part. If you must display a photograph of the incident, you would be much wiser to display a picture of a victim, or of the location. Haiduc (talk) 23:21, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, your editorial focus could just as well be on the victims, not on the killer, by starting the piece out by saying that "Thirteen people were killed and X injured by ..." Haiduc (talk) 23:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps WP's editorial policy should not be dictated by what alleged criminals may want. Going out of your way to avoid doing what someone wants is just another way of needlessly allowing them to control your actions. APL (talk) 23:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * A criminal's desire for notoriety does not make his or her image any less notable and relevant. Wikipedia is not in the business of implicitly condemning or advocating criminals and their victims. Nufy8 (talk) 23:38, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The choice of focus is in poor taste, and a bad editorial decision. It is in all likelihood a reflection of the American fascination with criminals. Wikipedia is not in the business of juvenile and obsessive news coverage. Haiduc (talk) 00:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Taste is irrelevant, and what the blurb reflects is moot. Of course, since the image has been removed, you can now sleep soundly knowing juvenile Wikipedia will no longer be offending your sensibilities. Nufy8 (talk) 03:45, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with Haiduc. The liberal media tells us that if you sign up to defend your homeland, and then some bloated parasites in Washington order you to bomb your fifth cousins and incinerate some opium fields in the middle of goddamn nowhere, there is a chance that it might drive you batshit insane.
 * However, patriotic Americans like us know that he only shot up his fellow soldiers because he wanted his picture to appear on the front page of a third-rate online encyclopaedia. HOO-RAH! --86.170.64.57 (talk) 00:20, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The man was shot and stopped, the only choice would be the woman who shot him or one of the victims. Under the circumstances the perpetrator is the one most associated with the act, so the picture was appropriate. Darrenhusted (talk) 00:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This criticism might fairly be laid in another case, but here the shooter's appearance is part of the story. We have a country in which a man can be an officer in the military, have a "foreign" appearance, subscribe to a religion which has a certain group of adherents supporting attacks on us, make anti-war and anti-American statements, and even so we let him continue his work and carry his weapons, at a now proven risk to ourselves.  Now to a lot of people that may sound like a joke or a mistake, but I say it is a very expensive proof that this country isn't like certain regimes in opposition to us.  Those people who died, died defending our country in the most effective way possible, by showing the world the fatal sincerity of our beliefs. Wnt (talk) 07:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Why not display Eastern Christianity observances?
Just a little curious here - today (November 8) is the "Synaxis of Archangel Michael", for the Eastern Christians. It's a pretty big day for Eastern Chrisitianity, and while it does have a western equivalent, why not display it like you would with the other national/cultural/religious dates? Just a bit of fairness, not like every Eastern christian thing should be put there. Just the major ones should be listed like the major western christian things already are. No biggy though, since I can just click on November 8. But I'd rather just scroll once, take a peek, go 'ahhh' and then go on with my usual time wasting. --60.230.224.107 (talk) 03:06, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Synaxis of Archangel Michael would be listed here, if we had an article about it.  howcheng  {chat} 06:18, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

As this is the second religious festivity to be notable for its non-mention, it seems that this area needs developing.

Copyed
How about clarifying the line : 'Many other Wikipedias are available; some of the largest are listed below' to ... 'There are many Wikipedias available in other languages, including:' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.136.61 (talk) 03:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The current wording is meant to clarify what criterion we use to list some other Wikipedias but not all of them. Once upon a time we used to get very frequent messages here asking us to list a "missing" Wikipedia with almost no content, so the wording we have is aimed at preventing that. However, this hasn't been a problem recently so far as I can tell, so it's at least worth checking what people think about such a change. Bear in mind, though, that we rarely change the Main Page layout without broad discussion; if there's no interest in doing this, it won't get done. — Gavia immer (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

No Berlin Wall?
Shouldn't OTD have something about this? It's quite important...

~Luna-chan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.190.199.242 (talk) 00:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * It's policy not to include the same event in two different sections of the main page. Thus because the fall of the wall is noted in today's FA it will not also feature in OTD.  Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 01:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * For those interested the relevant info is at Wikipedia talk:Selected anniversaries/November 9 in the FAQ where it says "to maintain some variety of topics on the Main Page as a whole, an event is not posted if it is also the subject of this year's scheduled featured article or featured picture", - Dumelow (talk) 01:09, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

On a related note; Why isn't File:Halt hier grenze.jpg not being used in the FA area?? It's on the commons, and of a free license, and is the lead image of the article, so what gives?--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 05:56, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Upon checking, the image being used in the FA isn't on the page in question. Again, why was THAT image used instead of one in the article itself?--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

The FA is on the Inner German Border not the Berlin Wall. Thus there is no reason why the Berlin Wall should not be included in OTD. Phillipmorantking (talk) 10:22, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Hold on, if it's policy not to include the same event in more than one section of the main page, then why was (among other things at other times) the anniversary of 9/11 on two sections this year and three the previous? 79.79.17.155 (talk) 20:37, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!! Kidding aside, chalk it up to a gradual change in policy on the front page. Remember when the FA also included copyrighted fair-use images? Nowadays, if the article has no Free-use images (Like Video Games and Books), there is no image period.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 21:58, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

El Salvador disaster
Since someone may soon ask why it isn't on the Main Page yet it is here but is too short at the moment. Please assist with its expansion if you wish. :) -- can  dle &bull; wicke  03:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Image location
I know it's one of these perennial issues but it was interesting to see that Elmo and Grover have joined the United States Marine Corps. :) Garion96 (talk) 20:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible to have a different shade background colour around the image and also behind the related text? This will possibly help link the news item to the photo, but someone might need to make a mock up to test it out.--202.0.51.210 (talk) 23:27, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That actually sounds a good idea, if done subtly. Perhaps a slightly deep shade of the same pastel colour? <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 23:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Fundraising banner (Wikipedia Forever)
Since I'm sure we're going to get a ton of complaints as we do every year, can we keep discussion at Village pump (proposals) please Nil Einne (talk) 06:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Orwellian
This banner ad ("Wikipedia Forever") seems very Orwellian and frightening. Has Wikipedia been hacked? 66.31.202.119 (talk) 09:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * See above Nil Einne (talk) 11:09, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Liebniz's day

 * 1675 – German polymath Gottfried Leibniz employed integral calculus for the first time to find the area under the graph of the function y = f(x).

That's an unusual way to format it since any function can be f(x), that just a notation. Remove the "the" and "y = f(x)", it's redundant. --84.251.122.251 (talk) 21:12, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't we just say 'integration' anyway? It's a term every educated adult will have encountered, even if they don't remember exactly what it is or how it works. <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 23:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Featured articles are US-centric?
I haven't looked at Wikipedia for a while, but on reading the main page today, I noticed that 3 of the 4 most recent featured articles are about US people or places. Is this a pattern? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.120.16.131 (talk) 04:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The only patterns that you are the ones that you perceive. – Howard  the   Duck  05:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * That didn't make any sense. 69.120.147.64 (talk) 21:07, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Short answer - there is no pattern. <font style="color:#000066;"> GARDEN  21:37, 7 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Ugh, I wish they were US-Centric. Then there wouldn't be these embarrassing silly featured articles about some recent song by some recent Aussie rock band. Kinda makes me miss the good old days when all of the featured articles were about old cricket players. Zenexp (talk) 04:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Spelling error on Main Page
The first ITN item has the word "electric" misspelled. Just FYI.--208.82.225.245 (talk) 06:56, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Sharing feature articles via social networking
Maybe it's already possible somehow, but it'd be nice if there was an easy, one or two click type way of posting today's feature article to social networking websites.

Also, was it really necessary for me to trawl through the page's source code just to post this comment? Reentim (talk) 03:34, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * People here don't like linking to external websites in the Main Page. As for trawling, you can click "new section" beside "Edit this page" tab above to add a new comment. – Howard  the   Duck  04:57, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Donations
Where can I find how much money has been raised each day? Thanks 128.232.247.48 (talk) 11:31, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This page provides the daily, monthly, currency statistics. This page is quite handy too as it lists each donation and the donors' comments - Dumelow (talk) 11:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * According to the first page, someone donated 254,486.20 USD worth in a currency denoted 'STO', which is a code which apparently doesn't exist. wtf? <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 23:21, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It refers to a stock transfer. Dragons flight (talk) 23:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And what currency is '5.0'? BTW - it's been a looooo... ong time since I've posted to the talk page of the Main Page - that 'Please make sure' banner is shocking. But probably useful. And scary. --Ouro (blah blah) 12:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia now owns 254,486.20 USD-worth of shares in some company? Has this been announced somewhere? <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 18:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe that was quite a while ago, and I think it was converted to cash shortly after it was received. Dragons flight (talk) 19:02, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, wikipedia doesn't and never owns anything. It can't. The Wikimedia foundation does or did own stock which they accept as a donation Nil Einne (talk) 01:36, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Not another video game!
Video/computer games are not important enough to be a featured article. Only people without normal lives think them important. 84.13.175.130 (talk) 00:56, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I think England isn't important enough to be a featured article. Only people with bad teeth live there. EvilHom3r (talk) 01:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing is "important enough" to be a featured article. Importance isn't the criteria.  APL (talk) 02:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a never ending battle. Any time anything is TFA, someone moans and complains about it because they think "Oh, that shouldn't be TFA, it's not important enough, blah blah blah." If that's how you feel about it, make your own Wiki! Or, better yet, work on something you think IS important so that it can be TFA one day. Seriously people, quit complaining!
 * Who are you to deem what is or isn't important, and also what constitutes a "normal" life? Luckily wikipedia doesn't choose articles on their importance. If it did we probably wouldn't learn about some of the more weird and wonderful subjects out there. The FA isn't the only article on wikipedia, there are more if you want to look. Or better still, as someone else suggested, if you don't like video games being featured, write and expand articles that aren't about video games, articles that people with "normal" lives are interested in. Dark verdant (talk) 10:50, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is much easier to complain than write (any) featured article! Francium12  11:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That is very true. Dark verdant (talk) 12:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

There is a serious point here. Many of these article are thinly veiled product placements; puff pieces for the companies concerned. Also, their references are very vague. For example, they always state that the game was "well received" with a rather flimsy reference. Surely it is not beyond the bounds of the FA selection criteria to feature a balanced selection of articles. (Also, abusive comments are inappropriate in these discussions and just indicate a lack of good manners. Awernham (talk) 13:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Join WP:BIAS 79.79.17.155 (talk) 14:38, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Abusive comments?" If by "abusive" you mean "offensive," you should consider that insulting the work of Featured Article contributors as you have done is highly offensive, especially when your comments suggest that you haven't read the article in question.  The Grim Fandango article is certainly not a "thinly veiled product placement," a "puff piece," or filled with "flimsy references" with respect to its reception.  There are other articles which fit the description you offer, but they aren't Featured Articles... and Wikipedia is a wiki so that users such as yourself may spend time improving rather than insulting. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 14:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Given that Grim Fandago is an 11 year old adventure game and that, as the article and our main page summary says However, the game has been considered a commercial failure, which partially led LucasArts to terminate their adventure game development, contributing to the decline of the adventure game genre (emphasis added) and much to the chargrin of many adventure game fans, LucasArts by and large remains uninvolved and uninterested in the adventure game genre (despite some recent doings with Monkey Island, 'product placement' is a bit of a stretch. Nil Einne (talk) 19:40, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

On a lighter note, I would consider anyone who spends there time posting on the talk of the Main Page of Wikipedia to not have quite a "normal" life. Oh, wait, that includes me! :) Cheers! Scapler (talk) 16:01, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah... sigh... I started a discussion on this about a month or two ago which resulted in a general agreement that things were a bit askew -and yet here's another game. Between the overabundance of featured articles of games created by white men and the overabundance of featured articles about white men, white men have pretty much got the featured article completely monopolized. The purpose of this discussion is not to discuss what constitutes a "normal" person, but what constitutes a fair, inclusive, unbiased "featured article" page. An inability to recognize shortcomings and a failure to adapt will define the general character of the English Wikipedians.Paradise coyote (talk) 17:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Because only white people create video games. Right.  Of course.  Speaking of offensive... Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 18:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. A large amount of our videogame featured articles are Japanese games, which obviously aren't exactly "created by white men". And besides, even if it were true that the majority of featured articles are white-focussed, this simply means that the majority of people who have improved articles have done so on white-focussed articles (either consciously or sub-consciously), rather than that the Featured Article process/criteria is somehow biased against non-whites. This can, of course, be fixed by improving articles on non-white things. If it gets to Good Article status, but upon nomination for FA too many people say "Oppose. Not a white-enough subject for me", then the skin colour thing is an issue. Dreaded Walrus t c 19:02, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The last four video games were Grim Fandango, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Crush (video game), and The World Ends With You.  Grim Fandango was designed by a white guy. 'Smash Bros', and 'The World...' were not, and I'm uncertain about Crush.
 * Either way, games are produced by large teams. The ethnicity of the designer doesn't really make the article "white" or not. To me, Paradise coyote's rant just seems bizarre and misplaced. APL (talk) 19:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "Bizarre and misplaced" is about right... although if there were ever an appropriate American-produced video game article to inspire the rant, I don't think Grim Fandango would be it... given that it's based on Aztec-inspired characters and includes Latin-American and African-American musical influences. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 19:58, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't see general agreement (whatever that means) for anything of that sort. Where did you start the discussion? Definitely all discussions I've seen on Talk:Main Page haven't come to anything close to general agreement. Some people say OMFG too many video games, some people say STFU (I'm paraphrasing for both this and the last), some people are in between. In other words, in every discussion there's far from general agreement let alone WP:consensus. Most discussions have also had rather few people. Perhaps not surprising since 1) this isn't the best place for such a discussion 2) people tire of the same discussion every 2 months 3) ultimately you're going to need to involve User:Raul654 in any discussion. If you aren't aware of any of these 3, perhaps you should read around a bit more before continuing to partake in this discussion... Nil Einne (talk) 19:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Consensus comes in when an article is under featured article candidacy. There, a consensus is reached on whether the article nominated is among the best of articles on Wikipedia. Beyond that I don't know of any consensus for when an article is made TFA, although I know that sometimes people may campaign to have an article be TFA for a specific day (like there was for Batman Begins shortly before Dark Knight came out). Consensus is reached where it is most crucial: is this article good enough to be an FA? But most people that complain here don't take part in the discussions over at FAC. They have no one to blame but themselves for not objecting. Not that they'd have solid ground to object anyways. Anakinjmt (talk) 20:09, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "I don't know of any consensus for when an article is made TFA" – allow me to introduce you (and perhaps others) to the "Today's Featured Article Request Page", where suggestions for TFA appearances can be made, supported and opposed. The requests and supports are not binding on Raul654, but can help him in deciding what should be scheduled on certain days. At the time of writing, the nominations are for William III of England on the anniversary of his birth, "On the Origin of Species" on the 150th anniversary of its publication, Scotland national football team on the anniversary of its first match, the history of the Montreal Canadiens on the anniversary of their foundation, and George H. D. Gossip, a chess player, on the anniversary of his birth. BencherliteTalk 09:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

So when are the 'Computer games and assorted Sports' main page and the 'Non-work/school/library/Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' children safe front pages going to be set up as alternative start pages? Along with a 'to report errors click here' link at the top of the talk page much 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' would be avoided. Jackiespeel (talk) 14:26, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

WP:ERROR tab?
I notice that a lot of people use this talk page to address errors on the main page. Is it possible, in order to resolve errors in a quicker manner, to add a tab solely for error reports? By that I mean one thus: "main page | discussion | edit this page | new section | report an error | history", or one visible from the main page itself. 79.79.17.155 (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you aware of WP:ERRORS at the top of this page? Art LaPella (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * One difficulty is that the tabs are determined by the MediaWiki software - you can't arbitrarily add tabs by editing the page contents. You'd have to modify the MediaWiki software itself. That's a significant undertaking for a change that's only going to be used by one page on one WikiMedia site. (On every other page, the talk page is where you're supposed to report errors, if you don't fix them yourself.) Practically speaking, there is little harm in people reporting errors on the main talk page versus the error page. It may not be as quick, but the errors get fixed. If it somehow disturbs you, you can always be bold and move them to the error page. As Art mentions, if people aren't seeing/aren't reading the links at the top of the page, it's unlikely that louder klaxons or an additional tab will change their behavior - at least, it's unlikely enough not to be worth altering the MediaWiki code. -- 128.104.112.237 (talk) 00:23, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually it would be quite easy to do with some simple javascript. Ose (talk) 14:23, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the bigger problem would be that everyone would posts all errors about anything there, not just those about the main page.--Macbi (talk) 10:31, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Past reports
If I report an error in "pic o' the day," for example, and the next day there is a new pic o' the day, how can I go back to see what comments were made subsequent to my report? Eh?
 * The only thing you can do is to comb the [ history] of Main Page/Errors.  howcheng  {chat} 06:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh no, Vitaly Ginzburg died!
Finally a worth the Main Page! And here I was thinking there was some rule preventing IMPORTANT deaths to be news items... I guess nobody IMPORTANT had died this year... until now, that is! 190.157.137.110 (talk) 21:58, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean like Michael Jackson, Omar Bongo (who's death was I believe annouced prematurely Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 26), Corazon Aquino , Ted Kennedy  (who can forget the mess/fuss that created?), Roh Moo-hyun , Alicia de Larrocha   and Raúl Alfonsín   which doesn't count Velupillai Prabhakaran  and very likely misses a few others as I don't have a photographic memory and don't always check the main page/ITN and although I did search in the template history for death, this presumes someone used the word death in the edit summary in association with the death which they of course don't always, and did in fact miss Roh Moo-hyun (someone used suicide but not death) who I happened to notice (do remember now but probably wouldn't have otherwise), Alicia de Larrocha who I found from the ITN talk page and Raúl Alfonsín who I found by coincidence when looking for someone else. Nil Einne (talk) 18:43, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There was another only last week. --  can  dle &bull; wicke  21:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed just after I turned off my computer earlier I remembered another one. Couldn't be bothered starting it again but Noordin Mohammad Top . Nil Einne (talk) 03:10, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And then there was Les Paul . -- can  dle &bull; wicke  19:20, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There are frequent complaints that there are too many deaths on ITN.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Some even try to remove them from ITN although the entries have been approved by consensus, while others keep adding certain deaths, usually American, even when they are not exactly supported by consensus. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Just to add balance before this discussion closes,I was very interested to know that Vitaliy Ginzburg had died, since I understand his importance and the importance of people like him in the real history that shapes our lives. As a counter example, like many people,I found the death of Michael Jackson an uninteresting and essentially boring matter. He was an ephemeral phenomenon, and did not shape history in any relevant way (except possibly the need for greater focus on childcare). Nice songs, but a mayfly. Remember that Wikipedia is for everyone. Michael of Lucan (talk) 18:27, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have to disagree. Michael Jackson's music did help reshape musical history espeically in the United states.  Michael Jackson's love of music and his drive to continue that love is what made him so popular.  He wasn't afraid to be an individual and not conform and he let that side of him shine through his music and how he presented himself, dressed, etc.  if there ever was one popular figure who thrived off of being unique and being himself as an individual, it was Michael Jackson.Storm norm (talk) 07:41, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Double agree that we shouldn't think that just because a person isn't important in our own lives doesn't mean that he wasn't important in others'. Michael Jackson is widely credited by Black Americans and also some outside the US for becoming the first black superstar.  He paved the way, for example, for later black stars to get endorsement deals and other perks that had been denied to African-Americans in the past.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:27, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * My point was in my last line. Contrary to what the original poster thought, Wikipedia is for everyone. It is also for those who know that Vitaliy Ginzburg was important - perhaps more important in the long run than Michael Jackson. That's what a real encyclopedia does. It covers stuff about everything, not just what you know about or have an interest in.Michael of Lucan (talk) 10:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Crappy featured picture
It had to be said. — RockMFR 00:46, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * There is another fly as a featured picture. Décémbér21st2012Fréak   &#124;  Talk 01:02, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * i dont think it was the fly that made it crappy :) -- Ashish-g55 01:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just keep in mind: Everybody Poops. :P -- slakr  \ talk / 10:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That book is a lie. Her Maj surely never poops. --Dweller (talk) 12:10, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Forever banner
I find it rather ironic that there is the banner on Wikipedia saying "Knowledge Forever, Ad-Free Forever, Wikipedia Forever" and yet it is advertising itself and the fundraiser. Simply south (talk) 15:46, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I am a particular fan of "For your great, great, great, great grandson". Apparently Wikimedia is now forcing me to have children.  There is a section at Village_pump_(proposals) where all criticism against the current campaign is encouraged to be posted.  I guess it keeps this page clear of the mountain of posts it would get otherwise (or keeps it out of the public eye!) - Dumelow (talk) 15:53, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That Village Pump section is rather WP:TLDR now. Requests for comment/Wikipedia Forever may be a better destination. Rd232 talk 17:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

What about (great x several) grand-daughters and 'persons of other genders?' What if 2012 doomsday/computer clock bug/other scenario comes into effect. 22:10, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I just hope Wikipedia stops using Unix time. <font style="color:#339999;"> GARDEN 10:12, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think both grand-daughter and grand-son versions existed. Now it just seems to be the "FOREVER" banners, for some reason. APL (talk) 16:14, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They did - I saw both within a few minutes of each other. (So it seems like Wikimedia is not only making me have children, but also making them have children.) DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) | (talk to me) | (What I've done)  23:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Why Can't I start an article
Why wont it let me start an new article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.114.116 (talk) 10:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Due to you not having an account. <font style="color:#006600;"> GARDEN  10:10, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is always articles for creation if you do not wish to create one. <font style="color:#660000;"> GARDEN 10:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Why do I need an account to create a page but not edit? "Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit but not create" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.114.116 (talk) 10:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, it was mainly an issue of exceeding an abuse-to-revert threshold. That is, while people can vandalize en masse through various means, the manpower and robotpower available to undo it is extensive&mdash;any editor can undo it.  It can take as little as one click to commit an edit as well as revert it immediately&mdash;no matter the user level.  When it comes to articles created for abuse, only administrators are able to delete them; so, whereas one click could create abusive articles, geometrically more would be needed to undo it.  It's believed that the extra few steps of creating an account, plus the automated backend checks involved in doing so, helps to reduce the disparity. -- slakr  \ talk / 10:59, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for that. Thou it does not seem very welcoming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.114.116 (talk) 11:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Of course ANYONE can edit, and ANYONE can create, too, as ANYONE can register and make an account. It is free, but it doesn't mean without rules and procedures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.78.193.1 (talk) 13:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Not everyone is able to create an account, and there are some who are opposed to doing so for various reasons. As has been pointed out, there is articles for creation for those who are unwilling or unable to create an account but would still like to "create" an article. Dreaded Walrus t c 23:57, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Out of curiosity who is unable to create an account? APL (talk) 00:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I was wondering. Anakinjmt (talk) 02:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Those who have disabled cookies perhaps? <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 04:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * An IP address with an account creation block would not be able to create an account :) Calmer   Waters  05:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They could request an account in such an instance Request an account and I presume it would normally be created for them unless the admin believes they are the person that got the IP blocked in which case it's fairly obvious there's a good chance they're not going to get an account. In any case they do need an e-mail address to do that. If the problems is cookies (although I'm not sure if a lack of cookies actually prevents the creation of an account) then they still won't be able to log in even if they have an account. Ultimately as I've said before when it comes to this level you can make philisophical arguments either way. For example someone without access to the internet can't edit anything. Even someone who does have occasional access to the internet is limited in their editing. (I've heard before suggestions of developing means for offline editing but it sounds like something that's a very long off, if ever developed especially given that AFAIK the offline readers are still rather limited.) Nil Einne (talk) 06:36, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

im unwilling to create one
 * Frankly, it's worth making an account for privacy reasons alone. I'm happy not having people be able to go through WP's logs and find all the IP addresses I've ever posted under. APL (talk) 07:02, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Get a free cookie! All you need is to ask please. What, you don't want to ask? You're "opposed" to asking for things? You want a cookie, but won't do the simple request to say please? So I will not give you a cookie. And yes, it is still a cookie anyone can have. 187.78.103.179 (talk) 11:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please, just stop feeding the trolls.The Illusional Ministry (talk) 23:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Number of Wikipedia articles...
(in millions), and then again 13.3M - that seems redundant. Surely, we don't have 13.3 million million articles...Cribananda (talk) 01:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What a super-deceptive banner.  I thought that was the money-donated bar that had suddenly jumped up.
 * (Also, what happens when it hits 25.0M? Does WP close forever?) APL (talk) 05:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Doomsday is approaching! WAAAHHH! Cheers! Scapler (talk) 06:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I assume the last article will be a link to http://www.internetlastpage.com Michael of Lucan (talk) 10:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that the banner makes us look horribly amateurish. However the proper place for this is at Fundraising 2009/Launch Feedback (where it has already been brought up).  Hopefully the fundraising team actually read that once in a while and will fix this soon - Dumelow (talk) 11:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently they don't read it as it was never fixed but the entire banner is gone (as of today), hopefully to never return - Dumelow (talk) 11:46, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Today's Featured Picture
While I like most of the featured pictures, today's was especially enjoyable. Very informative caption. 04redsox07 (talk) 13:36, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I aim to please.  howcheng  {chat} 17:10, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There must be a joke here about aiming at the Kennedys... <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 23:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * A cantaloupe is okay, too. <font face="Arial" color="orange">estemshorn (<font face="Arial" color="orange">talk &#124;<font face="Arial" color="orange">sigs ) 00:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think 04redsox07 was talking about this picture. December21st2012Freak   Happy Thanksgiving! 01:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

"Thanked god"? Is somebody trying to start a flame-war or something?
Now this is getting out of hand. I understand I am taking a slight joke seriously/literally, but to say he "thanked god" when he was an Atheist..Well, is somebody trying to start a flame-war between somebody again? (actually, I'd say the wording on the "latest articles" section has been silly at times lately, to be honest). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.238.95.251 (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You can check the source yourself -- it's on page 194 and it says, "Thank God none of his fans can read."  howcheng  {chat} 23:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * For those wondering Nil Einne (talk) 09:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Thank god" (or "..God") is a commonplace phrase. It does not imply that the speaker actually believes in the existence of an entity called "god", any more than using the expression "fuck me for gods sake"is actually suggesting that someone acts on those words.  The way the hook is written suggests that Wheen actually meant the literal meaning of "thank god", when he didn't.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Any complaints from Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells, atheist section?. 14:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

On the Origin of Species

 * How much did Charles Darwin "donate" to your campaign to get his book "featured"? <b style="color:#660000; font-family:Andalus;">Bob</b> Amnertiopsis ∴<sub style="color:#FF9999; font-family:Tunga;">ChatMe! 02:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. It's this kind of pop-culture advertisement which puts Wikipedia in a bad light, and even goes against the spirit of Wikipedia. Specifically WP:SPAM (it's a book advertisement!), WP:FRINGE (The article even admits that "Much of the initial reaction was hostile"!), and WP:NPOV (the article doesn't mention the opposition to the book today. Considering that there are two viewpoints (people either believe in evolution or they don't), 50% of the article should be pro-evolution and 50% anti-evolution. Anything else is POV-pushing on the part of the admins who control the article and its content). Dreaded Walrus t c 03:54, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, you are both totally and completely wrong. According to WP:WEIGHT, we have to give precedence to the current widely accepted scientific theory or we would be POV pushing as well as performing original research and violating the policy against using Wikipedia to advance an agenda and turning Wikipedia into a battleground. If new evidence is uncovered that conclusively disproves the theory of evolution and this evidence is embraced by a large portion of the scientific community, the article will be updated to reflect that. However, at the present time, the overwhelming scientific opinion is that the theory of evolution, while not perfect by any means, is the best theory we have to explain the observed diversity of biological organisms on our planet. I will admit I personally have some serious doubts about the theory of evolution, but Wikipedia is not the place to fight that battle. If you want to change the world, this is not the place to do it. We just report the facts, not make them. Also, if you think featuring a well-written and thoroughly researched article about one of the most influential books ever written that was published more than 150 YEARS ago is spam, I don't really know what I can possibly say... Thingg <sup style="color:#33ff00;">&#8853; <sup style="color:#ff0033;">&#8855;  04:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sarcasm, darlin'. That was sarcasm. It's a really great article. <b style="color:#660000; font-family:Andalus;">Bob</b> Amnertiopsis ∴<sub style="color:#FF9999; font-family:Tunga;">ChatMe! 05:16, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. I too actually think it's a great article, both technically and in terms of how much I enjoyed reading it. I was trying to be sarcastic, and a parody of typical concerns raised here. Still, Poe's Law, eh? :) Dreaded Walrus t c 05:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * My thoughts exactly. Remember that you and your circle of friends isn't everyone. Most adults don't read books, it's just these bibliophiles and kids infesting Wikipedia who cause systemic bias. You should go out and play instead of reading musty old books. And look at the existence of all these other articles: cabbage, rhea, mockingbird, pigeon. Does every character in the book need its own article?! No wonder Wikipedia isn't considered acceptable material in schools. -- Coffee2theorems (talk) 07:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * In all seriousness, I'm surprised there haven't been any serious complaints about the article, seeing as 40% of the US are that ignorant... Sceptre (talk) 11:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * To be fair, it is only (currently) 6:40am on the East Coast. Obviously the further west you go, the earlier it's going to be. We can probably expect some serious complaints before the FA changes (either here, or on the article's talk page, or on Conservapedia...). Also, if 40% of Americans do not accept evolution, let's try not to insult 100m+ potential readers on Talk:Main Page. :P Dreaded Walrus t c 11:48, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

In case anyone has a serious complaint, On the Origin of Species was put on the Main Page to honor its 150th anniversary of publication. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

De jure uxoris?
The linked article makes no mention of a de version of the phrase, & I can't recall ever coming across one. Peter jackson (talk) 11:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 111,000 Google hits. Art LaPella (talk) 17:37, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Chinese human-rights activist news removed
Did someone remove the news of an arrested chinese human-rights activist for supposedly releasing "state secrets"? Is china lack of freedom of speech reaching Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.126.249.189 (talk) 22:54, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not censored. He was on the main page for 30 hours, from to . A lot of things happen in the world and items are in the news section for a limited time. He was added and removed by the same editor. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, the main page section ends with the link More current events... where he is still listed under November 23, and his article at Huang Qi is permanent. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There was a consensus at WP:ITN/C that he didn't meet the requirements to be posted on ITN so he was removed - Dumelow (talk) 01:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * For more you may see Huang Qi.-- '''yousaf465'   04:41, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

1.4 Million, starting from when?
1 January 2009? If so, according to this then we have collected way more. Thanks. 128.232.247.48 (talk) 00:46, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that the number quoted in the banner is the amount that has been raised since the start of the fundraiser, which was two or three weeks ago, iirc. J.delanoy <sup style="color:red;">gabs <sub style="color:blue;">adds  01:01, 26 November 2009 (UTC)