Talk:Major League Baseball All-Star Game/Archive 1

Improvement
Some things that need work on this page:


 * How is the venue for the game chosen?
 * Who gets home-field advantage at the All-Star game?
 * This is determined by whether the game is played in an American League ballpark or a National League one. Now, there were cases where teams in both leagues (Philadelphia, St. Louis) shared a park, but there was also an A.L. -- N.L. alternation in odd and even years that could have been used to decide which league was officially "at home."


 * History of the All-Star Game: when was it first played, whose idea was it, has it gone on continually.
 * Interesting games: some notable games, such as 2002's 11-inning tie game
 * Controversial All-Star Games: apparently Pete Rose ruined someone's career at the 1970 All-Star game.

-- ESP 19:55 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * I would add: How are Internet voting rosters created? They seem to be mostly opening day starters, but not entirely. Adollar28cents (talk) 05:43, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Looking at historical examples of recent years, it appears that even a starter who goes two (2) innings can get the win. This is interesting, in that if he really is allowed to pitch three innings, his removal was clearly voluntary and not by rule. I suspect that no one cares! WHPratt (talk) 13:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * There should be some mention of how the Winning Pitcher is determined. A maximum of three innings for a starting pitcher was specified sometime in the 1950s (or maybe 1940s), and the standard rule that the starter has to go five to get the win was waived in these cases.  Current practice is one inning per pitcher, sometimes two.  Is that enough for the win? WHPratt (talk) 12:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)  I added that comment prior to the oddity of the winning pitcher of the 2011 game, against whom A.L. batters batter 1.000 in his tenure! WHPratt (talk) 22:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Revision
Also needing some revision: Lineups have not always been chosen by fan voting; in discussing the various methods of selection over the years, there should probably be some mention of the Cincinnati ballot-stuffing in 1961(?) as well as the recent changes involving selections of reserves by the players.

And at some point, lineups of each game will be most useful (a big project for someone out there).

The 1970 incident was Ray Fosse, BTW.

Also "The game is usually played on a Tuesday, with no regular season games scheduled on the day before or the day after. These are the only two calendar days in the year in which no games in any of the major professional sports leagues of the United States are scheduled." That's incorrect because Major League Soccer have games schedule either league game or SuperLiga game. Please either delete or correct the sentences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.57.111 (talk) 06:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If "major league soccer" ever actually becomes a major sport, then the comment could be changed. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: "The game is usually played on a Tuesday, with no regular season games scheduled on the day before or the day after. These are the only two calendar days in the year in which no games in any of the major professional sports leagues of the United States are scheduled." I added the qualifying statement "...in which no preseason or regular season games in any of the major professional sports leagues..." in order to eliminate confusion that might arise from this statement. For example, today is October 8, 2008 where I live. There are no MLB, NFL, NHL or NBA regular season games scheduled for today -- but there are some preseason NBA games. ChargersFan (talk) 01:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That factoid is kind of nebulous. Obviously, there could be specific dates in specific years where there are no professional games. Like today. But the MLB All-Star Game always has that situation. Or nearly so, as I recall in the old days they would sometimes hold rainout makeup games on those days - but they don't do that anymore. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying that the original statement, if applied only to regular season games in the other three sports, was flat-out wrong. There ARE days besides those right before and after the MLB All-Star Game on which no regular season games occur.  If the statement includes preseason games, then it's accurate.  It's that simple.  ChargersFan (talk) 01:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That entire factoid is a stretch anyway. But I say again that in a specific year, you could have a specific date during August through June that doesn't have any games, but you can't say that's true about that specific date for every year. For example, October 8 last year would have had a Monday Night Football game. It is true in every year, under current policy, that there are no games on the Monday and Wednesday around the All-Star game. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The only "factoid" that's a stretch is the one stating that the only two days on which there are no professional major sports league games scheduled are those directly before and after the MLB All-Star Game (if you're talking about regular season games). Adding the clarification that this statement extends to preseason games for the NHL and NBA makes it precise and true, instead of nebulous or just plain wrong.  And it is important to make the clarification because when people discuss things like sports records, streaks, etc., they generally only include regular season games in the discussion.  ChargersFan (talk) 02:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It could still be incorrect. In any specific year, you could have days during August through June in which there are no games scheduled, be they preseason or regular season. But not every year. I think a clearer way to say it would be: "The game is usually played on a Tuesday, with no regular season games scheduled on the day before or the day after. These are the only two calendar days in the year in which no games are ever scheduled in any of the major professional sports leagues of the United States." Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 02:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I recall that in the years with two All Star Games, the calendar couldn't provide another three-day break, and so the second All Star Game was often preceded or succeeded by days with some scheduled league games. WHPratt (talk) 13:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

In the selection of players section, the third point in the 2010 additions says pitchers who start on the Sunday before the All-Star break will not be replaced, but in the last point under replacements it says they are. Which is it?CMUJeff (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Months and Days?
If someone has the data, we need to add the months and days of each game. Kingturtle 00:24, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

all the dates can be found here, if someone wants to add them: http://baseball-almanac.com/asgmenu.shtml 69.19.14.23 21:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

1957 All-Star Game
There is some inconsistency in the article regarding the 1957 game. The parts of the article regarding ballot box stuffing say that the fans of the host Cincinnati Reds stuffed the ballot box. However, the list of All-Star Games later in the article, as well as MLB.com, state that the 1957 game was held in St. Louis. I have been bold and corrected these mistakes. Also, lineups for all the All-Star Games throughout history can be found at MLB.com, as well as at Retrosheet. - Gujuguy 04:15, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Hearsay
I think the bolded part of this line ...
 * Manager selection (second): After the final vote, the manager and the Commissioner's Office will replace players who are injured or declined to participate. Each major league team is guaranteed to have at least one player selected to participate, though single players from poor teams are occasionally not used (Detroit's Carlos Guillén, in 2004, was the last to be selected and not be put into the game by the manager)."

is hearsay and s/b removed. Anyone agree? -- CPAScott 01:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe. They've got this new "last to be selected" gimmick, however, where fans can vote online for the last addition to the roster, so they can actually prove who the last to be selected is (which is a pretty dubious honour, if you think about it). In terms of managers not playing players they deem unworthy, that probably is conjecture, as most managers want to make sure everybody gets to play (although they can't promise!). Wencer 00:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

2010 and beyond
I re-added a "Future sites" section, but to keep it from developing into an ugly hairball like the last time we did this, i'm going to try to keep it to just the confirmed sites, where someone can point to an official and explicit Selig quote. There's an HTML comment in the section explaining this. What do you think? --Mike Schiraldi 18:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

1972 game at "Atlanta Stadium"
I ran across info regarding the original name of Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium - it was Atlanta Stadium until 1976. I changed it on the stadium page and the Braves & Falcons team pages. The Braves webstite mentions the name change: http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/atl/ballpark/history.jsp. And there is a picture from the 1972 ASG program: http://www.the-forum.com/COLLECT/allstar.htm which relates more to this article. And yes, the MLB site says "Fulton County," but the evidence says otherwise.EC2 15:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Controversy about the roster selection
I would like to add this section to the "roster" section in the article, about the home field advantage associated with the All Star Game:

"Another contentious issue occured after 2003 when it was decided that the result of the All Star Game would decide home field advantage for the World Series. It has been argued that the baseball writers and owners ought to have more of a say in determining the rosters, because the game contributes towards the World Series."

Does anybody have any improvements or reservations about this passage? Andy4226uk 23:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Why not? It sounds fine to me. TashTish 03:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Under Selection of managers and coaches it says "There have been some exceptional cases where the usual rule was abandoned." This is a wee bit overstated. It had become common practice to elevate last season's second-place team's manager when the pennant winner's skipper had stepped down. Although it was of course unusual for a pennant-winning manager to go away, it happened to the Yankees with both Casey Stengel (after 1960) and Ralph Houk (after 1963). In 1964, it happened in both leagues, but they still followed the practice. (The N.L. had a tie for second place, but only one manager was still alive, and you can't beat that as a tiebreaker.) I believe that a few times in the 1940s, a replacement manager inherited the All-Star job. WHPratt (talk) 13:16, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

"Oddities" Section
As I was updating chronology and consistency I noticed that some of the items in the section aren't "odd." I think we can decide on a better name for this section. Coolbrook76 16:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, someone put a TRIVIA box, I assume in response this section. The items seem to be "out of the ordinary" and therefore the title "Oddities" to me is appropriate. Furthermore, I really don't see how all these facts, some very minor, can be gracefully incorporated into other sections of the text. (Unlike others, I feel a TRIVIA section serves a purpose for many articles.) So I suggest not only keeping the "Oddities" title, but also ousting the TRIVIA box. TashTish 03:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I ended up placing the Trivia tag back on here for further discussion here as it seems to kinda apear to be like one PEr WP:TRIV. Some of the big problems with this section is that 1. Most of the items listed are not referenced or cited, 2. The name of the section seems to imploy that it is a trivia section perhaps renaminging it to "Notable Moments in All Star Game History" There seems to be some Trival facts that do make this seem like a trivia section like the statment "As of the 2006 All-Star Game, the cumulative run totals for all 77 games played was 652: 326 runs for the American League, 326 for the National.". I do think that reformating the section and putting the Dates on the front of each of the staments would make it more like a proper list than a Trivia Section. And Example of my idea is below:


 * 1945 In 1945, with severe wartime travel restrictions in effect, the All-Star Game scheduled to be played at Boston's Fenway Park was canceled.
 * 1959-1962 There were two All-Star Games played each season from 1959 to 1962. The second game was added to raise money for the players' pension funds, as well as other causes.

So what do you guys think of the example and idea?Sawblade05 21:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Some of the "oddities", at least, are essentially restating or elaborating on stuff that's already in the article. First weed out the redundancies and/or interweave them into the list, then see what's left. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I did some of that work. Take a look. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 02:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

"Of the eighteen players who started the 1934 game, only one, Wally Berger, is not in the Hall of Fame . . . In 1985, the American League started seven future Hall of Famers: Rickey Henderson (CF), George Brett (3B), Eddie Murray (1B), Cal Ripken (SS), Dave Winfield (RF), Jim Rice (LF), and Carlton Fisk (C). This is the most Hall of Famers ever in a starting lineup for an All-Star Game, not including Veterans Committee inductees." I assume that the 1934 game must have involved some Veterans' Committee inductees, as those teams had 9 and 8 Hall of Famers, respectively. The surface contradiction would be eliminated by noting that fact at the end of the first sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.68.203.27 (talk) 03:10, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The Section "Major League Baseball All-Star Games (1933-present)" is starting to make the page too big
I am posting this as I think that section should be split off into a separate article. The problem is that the page is getting near the size of where sections should be split into per WP:LENGTH and this page is currently at 55,771 bytes as of my post and theres alot of sources to be cited on this page which would make the page well over 60 KB long after citing them. I did a test split in the Tutorial (Editing)/sandbox to see how big this page would be afterwards and the new size was 25,722 bytes well withing the Guideline of WP:LENGTH. Now if that section is to be split into its own page what shall we call it because I don't quite think naming it Major League Baseball All-Star Games (1933-present) would work to well in the long run. Sawblade05 22:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree. Then all the game notes or "trivia" could also be moved to that article and kept in context with the games, and restrict this article to its general history and how the teams and sites are selected. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 02:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that the results should be moved to a new page. Two caveats: Currently, the date and result of each game is squished into one column (dates for future games, results for past games). I think we should split this into two columns. Also, i think the "Confirmed Future Sites" section should be moved to the new page and immediately follow the table. --Mike Schiraldi 17:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, anything to do with the schedule could be moved to the new page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I am working on revising this table to place on a new page. You can see my revision in progress here.  I am proposing on naming the new page MLB All Star Game Results. Shawn W 02:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I moved the table to MLB All Star Game Results. This table is still under an edit, so please feel free to make the changes. Shawn W 19:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Wrong info/spam????
Opening section - "The most recent All-Star Game (2008) was played at Yankee Stadium in The Bronx, New York, home of the New York Yankees. The American League won, extending their unbeaten streak (including the tie game in 2002) to 12 games,[2] securing home field advantage in the World Series for the fifth straight season under the format (and sixth straight counting the pre-scheduled 2002 World Series). "

Who wrote this? It seems like spam. Maybe someone mixed up this year's stadium with last year's result? Please fix this incredibly wrong statement to what it should say. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 02:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Product placement?
"Thanks to the fans for making this possible, and thanks to Gillette for making this all necessary." This quote is attributed to Rico Carty, who was selected to the All-Star squad based on a write-in campaign. It is unsourced (the whole section) and a google search of that quote only brings up Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.15.101.44 (talk) 09:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Multiple issues tag
I just added a multiple issues tag:
 * There are large sections of this article that may be unreferenced, but are definitely uncited.
 * Some of the language is burdensome. In some cases, I needed to reread sections 3-4 times just to get the gist of what was being said. LonelyBeacon (talk) 13:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Reversals of fortune
This section is similar to the section on "MLB All-Star Game results (1933-present)". Should "Reversals" be merged into the "game results" section? Eagle4000 (talk) 05:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Internet All-Star selection
I remember reading in multiple sources (books, newspapers, etc.) about a problem with the voting in the competition between Derek Jeter and Nomar Garciaparra for the starting All-Star spot. Despite the fact that Jeter was clearly having the better year, Garciaparra somehow overcame a huge deficit in the last week in voting, and it was discovered a couple weeks later that some MIT students had hacked the website and voted thousands of times. I think the year was 1998, but I could be mistaken- it was definitely the first year of Internet voting. Maybe I'm a bit oversensitive to it because of where I'm from (southwestern CT), but that seems notable to me. Does anyone else think anything of this? The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 06:45, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Counts in "Winning streaks; Run totals; Longest games" don't ad dup
The section says there have been 82 games with the NL winning 43, AL winning 38, and 2 ties. That adds up to 83. The List of Major League Baseball All-Star Game winners says there have bene 81 games with the record being 42-38-2 which adds up to 82. I'm not sure what the real answer is, but neither of them add up. --Mwn3d (talk) 15:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

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Merger proposal
I propose that the content at Major League Baseball All-Star should be merged into Major League Baseball All-Star Game, if it is retained at all, per WP:MERGEREASON #2 (overlap). A redirect would be another option. Any relevant content that can be added to the former article can be explained with better context in the latter - or in one of the articles describing each baseball season's ASG (we have a separate entry for every ASG). Other than the definition at the beginning of the All-Star entry, which I really think is common sense, the content is more closely related to the All-Star Game than the All-Stars. I appreciate anyone willing to work collaboratively to close perceived gaps in the encyclopedia. I just don't think that this is a gap. EricEnfermero (Talk) 01:43, 5 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Support Merge to Major League Baseball All-Star Game - per nomination. - BilCat (talk) 02:26, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Strong Support - I guess I didn't even know the MLBAS page existed. Looks like most of it can be trimmed and it turned into a redirect to MLBASG. Good job! Ckruschke (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2017 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * Strong Support Exact same thing. Nice catch Elisfkc (talk) 18:18, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose MLBAS is a new article: MLB All-Stars are not MLB All-Star Games. There are parallel articles - All-Star and All-Star Game which are not mentioned here. YahwehSaves (talk) 03:18, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't intend to suggest that the game and the player are the same thing. (Two articles don't have to be exactly the same in order to merge them together, as surely you must know.) I also didn't mean to weigh in on the suitability of any other merges besides these two articles (such as the two you mention). I'd only ask that you reread my statement and evaluate it in terms of WP:MERGEREASON #2. EricEnfermero (Talk) 03:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The 4 articles are separate articles and should remain that way. The MLBAS content does center on and should continue to center on the All-Stars not the AS games; AS history, AS firsts, AS player uniforms.... YahwehSaves (talk) 18:37, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * But still no rereading in terms of WP:MERGEREASON #2? EricEnfermero (Talk) 03:24, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

I agree with the merger proposal.John Paul Parks (talk) 03:22, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Support merge per nom. Anything in the newer article can be stated in this article. Lepricavark (talk) 20:48, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Merge - no reason to have separate articles.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 00:47, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Support merge Lizard  (talk) 04:33, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge But really Major League Baseball All-Star should be a redirect to List of Major League Baseball All-Star players, which surprisingly doesnt exist.—Bagumba (talk) 04:55, 13 September 2017 (UTC)


 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 21:38, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Venue
Shouldn’t the phrase be “AL >two< games ahead in turn”? With that being “corrected by the NL hosting in 2006-7”? TashTish (talk) 05:35, 28 January 2020 (UTC)